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-   -   SRAM 10 Speed RD and Campy 10s Shifters update? (http://www.bikeforums.net/tandem-cycling/753703-sram-10-speed-rd-campy-10s-shifters-update.html)

waynesulak 07-21-11 04:22 PM

SRAM 10 Speed RD and Campy 10s Shifters update?
 
In the past some members have posted that they were trying SRAM/Shimano cassettes, SRAM 10 speed rear derailleurs with Campy 10 speed shifters and no adapter. How is it working out?

Thanks, Wayne

TandemGeek 07-21-11 06:09 PM

Well enough that I haven't even thought about it until you asked. YRMV.

rdtompki 07-21-11 08:05 PM

Very happy with my setup using a Shimano Cassette (12-32), but when I tried a 12-28 SRAM cassette I couldn't get it to shift well at all! Interestingly enough Todd at daVinci apparently had exactly the same experience.

I recently had to replace my 10 spd KMC chain; when it got to 0.5% enlongation I began to experience some chatter. I replaced with a new KMC chain and the noise all but disappeared. I am going to try a SRAM chain since I believe it's just a bit narrower. When I put on the SRAM chain I also try the SRAM cassette again, but I'm not hopeful; no big deal for us since we could only use the 12-28 on 1/3 of our rides anyway,.

waynesulak 07-22-11 11:26 AM

Thanks for the information.

chichi 07-22-11 12:18 PM

Which Sram RD xx or xo, does it matter?

Thanks

rdtompki 07-22-11 04:28 PM

XX looks like a separate set of mechanicals with possibly a different cable pull. Any of the new 10 speed Exact Actuation RD (X0, x9, X7) will work. The previous year 9 speed units work fine with a Jtek, but don't have the same cable pull ratio as the newer 10 speed stuff.

Chris_W 07-22-11 11:28 PM

Our setup is Campy Record 10-speed levers (from the used parts stock at the LBS), a new SRAM 10-speed X9 rear derailleur (the red model, because it makes us faster), Shimano 5600 (previous-generation 105) chain, and Shimano XT 10-speed cassette (model M771 IIRC). The cassette was an 11-32, but I switched the 11- and 12-tooth cogs for the 12- and 13-tooth cogs of a different Shimano road cassette to make it a 12-32 cassette with no big gaps.

Performance has been excellent so far, almost no missed shifts, and certainly no worse than any other combination I've tried on the tandem. There is one point in the cassette, I believe between the 22- and 25-tooth cogs, where the shift doesn't always happen so well when it is on the repair stand (both when shifting up and down between these two cogs), but that hasn't seemed to cause much of a problem when on the road.

We've done several rides with this setup, including one epic day over multiple Alpine passes, and it has continued to perform well. Tomorrow we're heading off for a bike tour around Brittany in France, probably around 1000 km in 7 days. I can report back after that more thorough test.

The one problem that switching from Shimano levers to Campy levers caused was due to the Campy levers not having as strong of a return spring for the brake lever, and so our rear disc brake (Avid BB7) was not releasing very well. It took me a while to find somewhere that sells springs in various sizes, but I've now finally been able to and have added a spring around the brake cable between the pinch bolt and the housing stop on the brake. The brake is now working very nicely. I did not have this problem when using a Shimano lever. Plus, the Campy lever operates the Avid SD7 V-brake on the front without any problem (with a travel agent), so if you don't have a disc brake then this should not be an issue.

catonec 07-22-11 11:43 PM

ive tried before and here are my findings:

* the deraileur, front or back doesnt matter if its shimano or campy.
* the front deraileur doesnt care if you use shimano or campy cranks or shifters, 2 ring or 3 ring. you can trim it out (9 speed 2005 105 triple or 2000 - 2004 record shifters).
* the rear cassette spacing must match the brand of the rear shifter or else you will have 2 or 3 positions that rub and skip.

I did have great success using a campy conversion cassette on my shimano hubbed wheel. Ive since replaced my wheels w/ zondas and all components are now campy.

chichi 07-27-11 05:37 PM

I drank the kool aid and ordered a sram XO rd to go with my campy 10 speed shifters.

Campy with Shimano RD, Jtek, 9 speed has worked fine when I have the time and patience to adjust it. However I just returned from a trip where disassembled and reassembled the bike several times, I have decided vacation/trip time is for riding not adjusting finicky bicycle parts. Hoping it works.

rdtompki 07-27-11 05:53 PM

That would be a new 10-spd Exact Actuation RD I trust!

waynesulak 07-28-11 11:53 AM

I have also ordered a SRAM X-9 10 -speed RD. I don't know how they could make the names more confusing. "X-9 10 speed" ! not the X-9 9 speed or X-7 or X-8 9 speed. I considered buying the red X-9 10-speed at a still lower price but that is a road group so i bought the grey one.....

I ordered from Chain Reaction which has them at a reduced price. My order is now "dispatched". Will try to remember to report on results.

Chris_W 08-02-11 01:04 PM

We just got back from our week-long Brittany bike tour (i.e., the far western part of France that sticks into the Atlantic ocean). The shifting with Campy 10-speed ergo levers and SRAM X-9 10-speed rear derailleur on the tandem was superb throughout.

We partially dismantled the tandem to get to the start of the tour on the TGV, a French high-speed train (which covered almost 800 km / 500 miles in just 4 hours 15 minutes - WOW!). We put the bike together outside the hotel the first morning and after reconnecting the cables we didn't touch the cable adjuster. Almost 900 km later and thousands of shifts, and I still hadn't needed to touch the adjuster. We're a 300 lb team with a 40 lb tandem and probably 60 to 80 lbs of luggage (including full camping gear), so well over 400 lbs all-in.

The most extreme shifting situations were due to riding along the rolling hills on the beautiful coastal roads on the northern side of the region. The road would often go down violent dips towards the coast and then shoot back up again. We sometimes went from about 40 mph down to 5 mph in about 10 seconds, and never missed a shift. We'd also sometimes come around a corner to be surprised by a 10-15% pitch in front of us, which would sometimes lead to emergency downshifts under pretty hard pressure - I was never disappointed, and the shifts were normally far smoother than I ever expected.

As I said above, our previous setup was with a Shimano Dura Ace 7800 shifter and XT rear derailleur, which I was never able to get adjusted well and which would always miss shifts (when going up and down the cassette). The cable housing is Nokon, so it could not be due to that. I'm a professional bike mechanic myself, and still couldn't get it dialed in well (even after multiple hanger alignment attempts, new chain, new cables, etc). The switch to the Campy / SRAM setup immediately improved things immensely. My theory about what made the difference is the increased cable pull per shift: IIRC, it is 2.8mm per shift for Campy/SRAM versus 2.2mm per shift for Shimano. On the long cable run of the tandem, the 27% increase in cable pull seems to have made it far less finnicky than with the Shimano setup.

chichi 08-08-11 03:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chichi (Post 12996341)
I drank the kool aid and ordered a sram XO rd to go with my campy 10 speed shifters.

Campy with Shimano RD, Jtek, 9 speed has worked fine when I have the time and patience to adjust it. However I just returned from a trip where disassembled and reassembled the bike several times, I have decided vacation/trip time is for riding not adjusting finicky bicycle parts. Hoping it works.

Parts have come in and shop is working on it, initial attempts have not gone well. Mechanic does not like the way it is shifting on the stand. It was determined that the dropout was slightly bent which was suprising as the bike has never been dropped and I always take the dreailer off when shipping. Any tips are appreciated.

TandemGeek 08-08-11 05:57 PM

Just to review, here's a link to my Blog entry on the SRAM RD-based set-up(s) we've used.

http://tandemgeek.wordpress.com/2011...-final-update/

I find that once I get it running well in the stand I still need to fine tune once we're on the bike. With several hundred miles of use, I've had to tweak the in-line adjuster about 1/8 of a turn to adjust out a little cable stretch to tidy up the shifting. The adjustments with this set-up are very small, cables and housings need to be in good shape, etc.... all of which go into making hybrid systems work their best.

Same story coming in from some friends who have the same set-up on a new Co-Motion that they've logged 600 or so miles on.

waynesulak 08-09-11 01:51 PM

Installed X-9 10 Speed rear derailleur on tandem with Campy Record Shifters. Not the most attractive part on the bike but it it is functional and works well.

I am glad that I did not need detailed instructions because those supplied by SRAM contained many pages in many tongues but said very little. Cartoons were supplied which illustrated the proper cable routing for every model derailleur that SRAM sells. Both Shimano and Campy's products provide actual installation and adjustment instructions which are far superior for anyone not familiar with rear derailleur installation and adjustment.

Wayne

chichi 08-20-11 05:49 PM

First ride of the Campy ? Sram setup date, I am very happy with it.

TandemGeek 08-20-11 07:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chichi (Post 13109111)
First ride of the Campy ? Sram setup date, I am very happy with it.

You will need to "tweak it" as cable stretch rears its ugly head, just recognize that it will only require very small tweaks. Big tweaks (turns of the in-line cable adjusters) will screw up your shifting in a heartbeat.

chichi 08-22-11 12:09 AM

I think the longer sram cage coupled with the shorter calfee chain stays may result in the bottom part of the chain hitting the chain rings in some gear combinations wondering if I can put a shorter cage on this rd

Chris_W 08-23-11 01:57 PM

There are long, medium, and short cage versions of the SRAM X-9 10-speed RD, see here.

Dean V 08-23-11 02:41 PM

Do the Sram road derailleurs have the same cable pull ratios as the X-9? We have 10sp record shifters and 10sp shimano cassette. Would a Sram Red or Force derailleur work without the need for a Jtek?

rdtompki 08-23-11 08:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dean V (Post 13122143)
Do the Sram road derailleurs have the same cable pull ratios as the X-9? We have 10sp record shifters and 10sp shimano cassette. Would a Sram Red or Force derailleur work without the need for a Jtek?

Answering a question with a question: Do the new SRAM shifters work with both SRAM mountain and SRAM road Exact Actuation RD? If so I would think the cable pull for the two RD would be the same. Someone on the bicycle mechanics forum is likely to know the answer.

chichi 08-25-11 10:13 AM

I have put about 150 miles on the campy/sram set up and am very happy with the results. I would rate it 9 out of 10, while the camp/jtek/shimano was a 7. I may try putting the floating top wheel in from either campy or shimano to see if we can get to about 9.25.

TandemGeek 08-25-11 11:13 AM

I think a 9/10 is a 10 for tandems, even the ones running integrated systems. So long as there's a long cable involved it will always be a little less than perfect.

Chris_W 08-25-11 12:20 PM

AFAIK, the SRAM road shifters will shift the 10-speed SRAM MTB rear derailleurs without any problem. At least, I read reports of people using that setup when the SRAM XX RD first came out, so I assume it also works with the other SRAM 10-speed MTB RDs. Therefore, it should be possible to use a Campy shifter to operate a SRAM road RD also. However, why would you want to? Surely the Campy RDs are at least as good as SRAM's, and some of the Campys come in long cage versions, whereas I believe SRAM road RDs only have a short-cage version (with the exception of the lower-end Apex model I believe).

chichi 10-09-11 11:01 PM

Well we are done with the SRAM long cage RD. Had the chain fall off the outboard side of the big chain ring about a month ago, it resulted it an inner link of the chain being twisted about 30 degrees, was able to make a road side repair and finish the ride. I chalked it up to pilot error. Last weekend 90 miles into Levis Grandfondo same thing happened chain off on the outside of the big ring. This time the results were not repairable, the outerplate of the cage was snapped and a stop on the derailer was sheared. Fortunatley the ride was flat from that point on and we were able to finsih the ride with the chain dragging on the ground. I did a little web research and concluded that the cage breaking on the SRAM RD is not an unusual failure. While the failures may have been a result of pilot error , the results are not something I have seen it is not something I have seen in 40 years of riding. I am back to a Jtek and the Shimano RD


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