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  1. #26
    Tandem Vincitur Ritterview's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bgross View Post
    Just so the OP doesn't think we're completely hijacking the thread...the "dream tandem" is as much about what we do with the bike as it is about the hardware.
    This relates directly to the OP topic. One of the first and most momentous decisions to make with a tandem is whether to have it coupled or uncoupled. The OP mentions carbon frames, specifically Calfee. Coupling would preclude the higher-end Dragonfly for the Tetra. I think that neither Cyfacs nor Paketa's have been coupled. So, if at least part of the Dream Tandem aspiration is to be dreamily lightweight, as in a performance or racing theme, the S&S part not only adds weight on their own, but leaves out the highest-end frames.

  2. #27
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    Calfee might diagree with you......................

    Tetra tandem with S and S Machine couplers for travel and our Di2 Internal Battery and Wiring System weighs less than 28 pounds and is ready to race. You no longer have to compromise. Calfee is doing for the tandem world in 2011 what it did for the single world in 1987; building a lighter, stronger, stiffer more absorbent frame that is faster and more fun to ride. Beyond the frame, complete personalization of the component group and parts kit allows for tandem bike builds that are far more exciting and, simply, better than the rest!

  3. #28
    hors category TandemGeek's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ritterview View Post
    ...the S&S part not only adds weight on their own, but leaves out the highest-end frames.
    Technically speaking, it leaves out the "lighter, more exotic frame materials presently being used."

    High-end is relative, e.g., Dave Bohm's Bohemiam from the NAHBS show a few years back is probably of the the more high-end frames you'll find despite being of steel construction with stainless steel lugs, S&S couplings and many hundreds of hours of other design, fabrication and finish details.

    http://www.bohemianbicycles.com/tandem.html

    Our Custom Tetra Travel Tandem was easily more "high-end" than a Dragonfly or Paketa, just not as light or exotic.

    Not trying to be argumentative, just adding some context for frame characterizations like "highest-end", "best", etc...
    Last edited by TandemGeek; 08-02-11 at 01:16 PM. Reason: Boehm's are friends in Illinois, Bohm is the frame builder: doh!

  4. #29
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    Landshark will also make a custom carbon tandem frame.

    We have a CoMo S&S Campy equipped tandem and an older CoMo Double E (also Campy 10, upgraded from Mavic). One remaining tandem wish is for a light, aero kit and Landshark would be able to craft something special.

  5. #30
    Senior Member waynesulak's Avatar
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    I'll second the reliability comment above. My "dream tandem" would be light but strong, stiff yet compliant, stable but nimble, its wheels would always stay true and of course never get flats! I would also spring for the upgrade to the "wind is always at you back" option as well.

    it is a dream tandem!

    wayne

  6. #31
    just another gosling Carbonfiberboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by waynesulak View Post
    I'll second the reliability comment above. My "dream tandem" would be light but strong, stiff yet compliant, stable but nimble, its wheels would always stay true and of course never get flats! I would also spring for the upgrade to the "wind is always at you back" option as well.

    it is a dream tandem!

    wayne
    You betcha! Many of the choices in having a bike built are component choices. Me, I go for reliability on those, which will usually mean a teeny more weight or resistance, but the small extra weight or resistance can be offset by arriving at the destination an hour earlier, trouble-free. We do group tandem rides and have gradually accumulated some idea of what is reliable and still fast.

  7. #32
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    I do not like the appearance of Dave's bikes at all. They are certainly works of art but I prefer my Calfee Tetra.
    If it were not for current budget restraints (mine) I would have bought a dragonfly and equipped it with Lighting cranks and the Gates belt drive. And other exotic componets, it would be very similar to Ritterviews bike but it would use Shimano components rather than Campy.

    I am very happy with our dream bike. Even if it does weigh 30 pounds.

    Wayne

    Quote Originally Posted by TandemGeek View Post
    Technically speaking, it leaves out the "lighter, more exotic frame materials presently being used."

    High-end is relative, e.g., Dave Bohm's Bohemiam from the NAHBS show a few years back is probably of the the more high-end frames you'll find despite being of steel construction with stainless steel lugs, S&S couplings and many hundreds of hours of other design, fabrication and finish details.

    http://www.bohemianbicycles.com/tandem.html

    Our Custom Tetra Travel Tandem was easily more "high-end" than a Dragonfly or Paketa, just not as light or exotic.

    Not trying to be argumentative, just adding some context for frame characterizations like "highest-end", "best", etc...

  8. #33
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    high-end (hnd)
    adj. Informal 1. Appealing to sophisticated and discerning customers: a high-end department store; high-end video equipment.
    2. Sophisticated and discerning: books targeted to the high-end consumer.

    Now I am going to have to figure out if I am sophisticated and discerning before rejoining the fray

  9. #34
    Junior Member tandemchick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by waynesulak View Post
    I'll second the reliability comment above. My "dream tandem" would be light but strong, stiff yet compliant, stable but nimble, its wheels would always stay true and of course never get flats! I would also spring for the upgrade to the "wind is always at you back" option as well.

    it is a dream tandem!

    wayne
    I'll take two "wind is at your back" options! I wonder how much those would run? *g*

  10. #35
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    Here is our dream tandem. You can search for the "Calfee's here" thread title. In it's first year it got some extra 40 spoke Phil Wood wheels and took a pleasant trip to the Dordorgne. Now about 5K miles and no regrets. You may not think you're in a hurry, but the 6 month wait after you commit needs to be factored in.

    Calfee's here

    While I was waiting for this, I hoped for someone to post some pics of a Calfee with simple
    clearcoat. Well no-one did, so here's ours, hope you like it as much as we do. 9-speed
    antique build with some newer touches. The frame is slighter larger than large at the front
    with extra stiff top tube. I really like the lines and it rides nicely too!


    You can just see the hole where the payments go (actually it's the drag brake stop)

    54, 44, 28 9-speed Chainwheels came in silver, which matches the FD6503 nicely.

    Brake cable line a bit convoluted, but stops fine. SRAM FORCE brakes work really well after V's

    Yes it has a belt and lightning cranks. I'm not that retro... Oh and a Lezyne minipump.

    Hard to see the N-stop jump stop, but it's there. 3 brake options just in case.

    Had to use some side load cages in places, but they look solid
    Hope the Rolfs hold up to our weight!

  11. #36
    hors category TandemGeek's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chichi View Post
    Now I am going to have to figure out if I am sophisticated and discerning before rejoining the fray
    I believe that, by definition, you are more than qualified:

    chi·chi [shee-shee]

    adjective
    1. showily or affectedly elegant or trendy; pretentious.

    noun
    2. a chichi person or thing.
    3. the quality of being chichi.

    Sorry, that was just too hard to resist.

  12. #37
    Tandem Vincitur Ritterview's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tredlodz View Post

    Is the Thudbuster necessary? Since switching to the Fizik Vesta saddle, the stoker says she is very comfortable on our Calfee with a carbon seatpost. One way to gauge the relative comfort of a tandem frame, is to see what percentage of teams for the model use a Thudbuster. Calfee's, I'll warrant, have one of the lower Thudbuster percentages.

    Quote Originally Posted by CaneCreek
    • Thudbuster/ST
    • post... Forged aluminum
    • linkage......... Forged and CNC machined aluminum
    • pivots..... Stainless steel axles with bronze impregnated Teflon® coated steel bushings
    • elastomers........ Single urethane unit with various spring rates
    • travel........ 1.3 inches (33 mm)
    • length........ 353 mm (403 mm, 27.2 xl version)
    • weight........ 454 - 474 g (depending on post diameter) (489 g, 27.2 xl version)
    • max rider weight........ 250 lbs.
    • extension:........ min........ Minimum - 98 mm
    • extension:........ max........ Maximum - 251 mm
    • diameter........ (direct fit) 25.4, 26.8, 27.0, 27.2, 27.2xl, 30.9, 31.6, 33.9,
    • msrp........ $169.00 for 33.9mm; $159.00 all other sizes

    On your crank, I note that you have the early model Lightning spyder. This was a modified half-bike spyder, I think TA-Specialties.

    Lightning has a new tandem specific spyder, which is claimed to be more robust. I think it looks better too. It is 130/74 BCD. Note that the inner hole on the spider is threaded, it is the 74 BCD for the triple. You might want to contact Lightning, and get the new spider.




    With old spider, and DA chainrings:



    With new spider, and TA chainrings (the TA chainrings are shifting fine, BTW):


  13. #38
    PMK
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    Senior Member PMK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ritterview View Post
    Maybe it's the photo, just appears the front der is kind of far from the top of the teeth on the chainring.

    In regards to the op, it seems most of the replies are people living the dream...

    PK
    2006 Co-Motion Roadster, flat bars, discs and carbon fibre fork, size 22 / 19
    2006 Ventana ECDM full suspension mountain tandem
    Some single bikes and a couple of KTM's
    And most important, someone special that enjoys them with me (except the KTM's)

  14. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by TandemGeek View Post
    I believe that, by definition, you are more than qualified:

    chi·chi [shee-shee]

    adjective
    1. showily or affectedly elegant or trendy; pretentious.

    noun
    2. a chichi person or thing.
    3. the quality of being chichi.

    Sorry, that was just too hard to resist.
    chee chee as in "Chi-Chi" Rodríguez sooooooooo I'm still confused

  15. #40
    Senior Member
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    Where is the best place to get the Lighting tandem cranks? Best price?

  16. #41
    hors category TandemGeek's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chichi View Post
    chee chee as in "Chi-Chi" Rodríguez sooooooooo I'm still confused
    Yes, I know... or at least I always assumed that to be the case.

    My pun with the other chi-chi was simply a play on your nom de plume in light of the discussion, i.e., high-end / chi-chi.

  17. #42
    Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by DubT View Post
    Where is the best place to get the Lighting tandem cranks? Best price?
    Try Maggie rose's Bike shop. Chris is real familiar with Lightning cranks. He'll give you a good price too.
    http://maggieroses.com/

    Specialized S Works spiders will also fit the Lightning cranks. The aluminum ones are the stiffest. They will set your rings out away from the frame about 3-4mm more than the Lightning spiders.

    I had Lightning cranks on our Paketa V2r. I had to remove them as they spiders are too flexy for that application with a gates belt drive. For a full report on this, contact Dave at Paketa. He has my Lightnings over there now experimenting with them with different set ups.

  18. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ritterview View Post
    Is the Thudbuster necessary? Since switching to the Fizik Vesta saddle, the stoker says she is very comfortable on our Calfee with a carbon seatpost. One way to gauge the relative comfort of a tandem frame, is to see what percentage of teams for the model use a Thudbuster. Calfee's, I'll warrant, have one of the lower Thudbuster percentages.

    I have to agree with you on this, but I'm just the Captain and couldn't persuade the Rear Admiral to test this out. As everyone knows, the Stoker is always right in these matters and a happy stoker is worth a few extra grams. The Calfee frame is amazing good at absorbing road shock and leaving you less fatigued at the end of the day.

    On your crank, I note that you have the early model Lightning spyder. This was a modified half-bike spyder, I think TA-Specialties.

    Lightning has a new tandem specific spyder, which is claimed to be more robust. I think it looks better too. It is 130/74 BCD. Note that the inner hole on the spider is threaded, it is the 74 BCD for the triple. You might want to contact Lightning, and get the new spider.

    Thanks for the info on the new spider, will definitely go that way if we replace. We also use the TA Alize rings and find them to work well - few rings are available in the 54/44 sizes we like.

    With old spider, and DA chainrings:



    With new spider, and TA chainrings (the TA chainrings are shifting fine, BTW):

    I have to agree with you on this, but I'm just the Captain and couldn't persuade the Rear Admiral to test this out. As everyone knows, the Stoker is always right in these matters and a happy stoker is worth a few extra grams. The Calfee frame is amazing good at absorbing road shock and leaving you less fatigued at the end of the day.

    Thanks for the info on the new spider, will definitely go that way if we replace. We also use the TA Alize rings and find them to work well - few rings are available in the 54/44 sizes we like.

  19. #44
    Recreational/Utility bjjoondo's Avatar
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    Ok, well our dream tandem isn't quite as high a most here, we'd be thrilled with a custom built Di Vinci with IPS, but with our funds, it's more like a "fantasy"!
    Take care, RIDE SAFE, have FUN!
    B.J. Ondo
    2011 Jamis Allegro 1

  20. #45
    Senior Member ncbikers's Avatar
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    My dream (right now) is the Specialized carbon fiber concept tandem I saw briefly in an ad during the TdF. If you search on it you can find a few more pictures. We won't be ready for it for a lot of miles yet. We think a lot more would be expected of us if we showed up with something like that.

  21. #46
    Member riding_blind's Avatar
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    An update,

    So after a lot of discussion and research we have decided to put our dream tandem wedding present on hold for a while. Due to financial and other considerations we have decided to upgrade but not that much. We are thinking a Co-motion Primera or speedster. These would be equivalent to what we already have, a Santana Fusion set up for the road, but the fit on the Fusion isn’t perfect especially for the captain and we aren’t completely satisfied with the Santana. We will be test riding Co-motions tomorrow. The dealer also carries Davincis so we are opening our minds and trying one of those as well. I’m not sure we will like the ICS but how will we know if we don’t try it? Finally, please continue to post information about your dream tandem as this has been an interesting thread.

  22. #47
    Tandem Vincitur Ritterview's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by riding_blind View Post
    An update,

    So after a lot of discussion and research we have decided to put our dream tandem wedding present on hold for a while. Due to financial and other considerations we have decided to upgrade but not that much. We are thinking a Co-motion Primera or speedster.
    Co-Motions can certainly be dreamy. KGS Bikes is a company that does custom-fitted-frame dream builds, and for tandems they have used mainly Co-Motions.


  23. #48
    Junior Member tandemchick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ritterview View Post
    Co-Motions can certainly be dreamy.
    .

    Definitely. Due to my height we were only able to test ride a Periscope on Saturday (it was the only one they had that I could stand over...damned short legs), but the difference in handling between it and the Santana was amazing. If you'd told me a year ago that I would love riding a bicycle with fast handling I would have told you you were out of your mind. The Primera may not be our ultimate "dream" tandem (we saw a custom Calfee Dragonfly that made our jaws drop), but the shorter top tube, the faster handling, and admittedly the paint I picked out should at least work as our "for now" dream tandem. :-)
    Last edited by tandemchick; 08-08-11 at 08:17 AM. Reason: wrong tags

  24. #49
    Senior Member Bent In El Paso's Avatar
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    A Co-Motion Speedster Co-Pilot is our dream bike. It is lightweight, responsive, and rides like a dream. When travelling, it goes into its two cases and rides inside our Jeep Wrangler.
    Fred

    Behind every good captain is a great stoker!

    Co-Motion Speedster Co-Pilot

  25. #50
    Senior Member wheelspeed's Avatar
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    Well, I'm late to the party but that's okay because I see your finance plans changed, which is good since I was going to bring this discussion back down to earth anyway.

    We're very content with our aluminum road tandem that is 36 pounds. Except:
    - I wish it had a rear disc brake or maybe disc brakes front+rear.
    - I wish it had a little wider chainstays for the option to run cyclocross tires once a year on a rails-to-trails tour.
    - I wish it had couplers.
    - I'm happy our's has fender mount points front+rear with rack mount points on rear seat-stays.
    - Happy our's has fairly strong wheels that are low maintenance, even if they're heavier than some.

    (We've never test ridden any CF or magnesium bikes, so I imagine ignorance is bliss! I plan to keep it that way!)

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