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Old 12-22-11, 08:22 PM   #1
DubT
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Gates CDX drive for tandem update

Here is a response that I received from Gates about the CDX drive.

We currently have a tandem set up in the CDC line. *The new CenterTrack system for tandem is in design and testing phase. *We are hoping to have it to market by Summer 2012. *We do not have a cost for the system yet. *It should only be slightly more than the current system at $210. *The weight of the entire system is several pounds lighter than your chain system. *I do not have an exact weight with me but will get one soon.

Thanks,

Steve Pardoe
Gates Corporation
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Old 12-22-11, 09:56 PM   #2
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If I had a dollar for every pound saved I'd be a lucky man, because every pound saved usually takes all my money and then some.

... and you can take that to the bank.
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Old 12-22-11, 10:23 PM   #3
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I weighed my gates belt system and compared it to the chain drive which was only using a relatively heavy 8 speed chain. The belt drive is about 1/2 lb lighter.
So I can't see how you will save several pounds.
We are actually using the chain drive at the moment.
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Old 12-22-11, 11:20 PM   #4
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What? Yes, about 1/2 lb. saving and I paid $525 for our Gates system, which wore out in 1300 miles. See:
http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread...1#post13029039
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Old 12-23-11, 12:00 AM   #5
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Even though it has been discussed on other threads you can now get into a belt drive for about $160. We have over 7000 miles on ours, original belt and pulleys with out problems. It is removed 5-6 times a year while we travel with our coupled bike. Tension set strictly by feel and belt coiled for travel. The only time we have ever walked was when our timing chain broke and we didn't have a masterlink. We are sold on the belt drive system.
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Old 12-23-11, 12:16 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dean V View Post
I weighed my gates belt system and compared it to the chain drive which was only using a relatively heavy 8 speed chain. The belt drive is about 1/2 lb lighter.
So I can't see how you will save several pounds.
We are actually using the chain drive at the moment.
You obviously forgot to weigh your wallet after paying for the belt system. The gross weight savings includes all sources
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Old 12-23-11, 06:45 AM   #7
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You obviously forgot to weigh your wallet after paying for the belt system. The gross weight savings includes all sources
So what! When the CDX system is available it will go on our tandem, it is only money and you sure can't take it with you and it will keep the kids from fighting over it when we are gone.
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Old 12-23-11, 07:03 AM   #8
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Gates Belt Drive

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Originally Posted by akexpress View Post
Even though it has been discussed on other threads you can now get into a belt drive for about $160. We have over 7000 miles on ours, original belt and pulleys with out problems. It is removed 5-6 times a year while we travel with our coupled bike. Tension set strictly by feel and belt coiled for travel. The only time we have ever walked was when our timing chain broke and we didn't have a masterlink. We are sold on the belt drive system.
Ok, where can I get one for $160??? Got a link???
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Old 12-23-11, 07:40 AM   #9
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So what! When the CDX system is available it will go on our tandem, it is only money and you sure can't take it with you and it will keep the kids from fighting over it when we are gone.
I was once told this by a wise and successful business owner.

"Money is like air. There is no reason to keep extra sitting around right up until the point in time that you don't have enough"

Wayne
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Old 12-23-11, 08:02 AM   #10
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Even though it has been discussed on other threads you can now get into a belt drive for about $160. We have over 7000 miles on ours, original belt and pulleys with out problems. It is removed 5-6 times a year while we travel with our coupled bike. Tension set strictly by feel and belt coiled for travel. The only time we have ever walked was when our timing chain broke and we didn't have a masterlink. We are sold on the belt drive system.
I am glad you are happy with the belt. It is interesting to hear about the wide variety of results for different people with the belt sync drive. The are so many variables between users it is hard to see the cause. Team weight, bike condition and alignment, skill in wrenching, environmental conditions. It seems to me however that the belt system must be less forgiving of some factor or factors. The chain is messy but very forgiving and easy to repair in the field. Pretty easy to carry quick links and a spare couple links. I hope you carry one for drive chain.

Wayne
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Old 12-23-11, 10:38 AM   #11
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Most people would baulk at replacing their tandem fork at least every 2 years, so it seems ridiculous to attempt justifying the same price point for a bad belt system design. It's a great idea with a bad implementation.

Until they come up with a product that actually does last more than 2 years for the sprockets ($400?) and a belt that has a more competitive cost (than $85?), I am really happy that the early adopters are paying Gates for the privilege of field testing the product. If it were not for them, the system may never be ready for reliable use and with a reasonable longevity.
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Old 12-23-11, 01:57 PM   #12
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Anyone here aware that Schlumpf has a belt drive system of their own on the market? It is not the same as Gates and they both appear to be not cooperating on third party applications for competitive reasons. At least that's how it looks.

I have a LWB recumbent and would love to have a Schlumpf planetary drive, Gates belt system, and Rolhoff rear hub. But it looks like that's a ways off for the time being...not to mention costing over $3000.
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Old 12-23-11, 06:53 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by itchyscratchy View Post
Most people would baulk at replacing their tandem fork at least every 2 years, so it seems ridiculous to attempt justifying the same price point for a bad belt system design. It's a great idea with a bad implementation.

Until they come up with a product that actually does last more than 2 years for the sprockets ($400?) and a belt that has a more competitive cost (than $85?), I am really happy that the early adopters are paying Gates for the privilege of field testing the product. If it were not for them, the system may never be ready for reliable use and with a reasonable longevity.
You can get the belts for under $ 50. I just bought new pulleys and belt for under $150.

And if you use a high end chain, you're looking at around $75. ($50 chain times 1.5)
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Old 12-23-11, 11:26 PM   #14
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You can get the belts for under $ 50. I just bought new pulleys and belt for under $150.
A little shopping, and sure enough, a 2000 mm belt here for $52.95. The prices have come down.
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Old 12-23-11, 11:29 PM   #15
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Ok, where can I get one for $160??? Got a link???
Google search for gates tandem belt drive belts 53-58 69t cogs 53 also available thru amazon
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Old 12-24-11, 07:38 AM   #16
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You can get the belts for under $ 50. I just bought new pulleys and belt for under $150.

And if you use a high end chain, you're looking at around $75. ($50 chain times 1.5)
My weight weenie side convinced me to use 10 speed sync chains and bought some KMC for less than $27 each on Amazon. While shifting might be a little better with Shimano chains on the drive side, I don't see any weight, performance, or durability advantage to DA or Record chains over KMC on the Sync side.

Of course 8 speed chain would be cheaper ($15) not to mention single speed that was stock on our Speedster.

Wayne

Last edited by waynesulak; 12-24-11 at 07:41 AM.
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Old 04-28-12, 05:23 AM   #17
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Do you have any details as to how they were able to purchase, the cost and the weight?
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Old 04-28-12, 07:08 PM   #18
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Probably doesn't hurt that they own a bicycle shop...
Will you please provide me with their contact info (email)

Thanks,

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Old 04-29-12, 04:20 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DubT View Post
Here is a response that I received from Gates about the CDX drive.

We currently have a tandem set up in the CDC line. *The new CenterTrack system for tandem is in design and testing phase. *We are hoping to have it to market by Summer 2012. *We do not have a cost for the system yet. *It should only be slightly more than the current system at $210. *The weight of the entire system is several pounds lighter than your chain system. *I do not have an exact weight with me but will get one soon.

Thanks,

Steve Pardoe
Gates Corporation
I just replaced by sync chain and went from 10 speed to 8 speed for more durability. Weight of sync chain with out of the box lubricate is about 350 grams. I will let the reader guess what two aluminum 34 tooth chain rings weigh vs the gates rings but I would like to see how they are going to save me "several pounds" .....

Maybe Mr. Pardoe can explain it ?

Last edited by waynesulak; 04-29-12 at 04:24 PM.
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Old 04-29-12, 04:52 PM   #20
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Probably doesn't hurt that they own a bicycle shop...
Because they ride their tandem on and off road (and probably own a bike shop) they are part of the test program. The production release is still scheduled for late 2012.
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Old 04-29-12, 04:55 PM   #21
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I just replaced by sync chain and went from 10 speed to 8 speed for more durability. Weight of sync chain with out of the box lubricate is about 350 grams. I will let the reader guess what two aluminum 34 tooth chain rings weigh vs the gates rings but I would like to see how they are going to save me "several pounds" .....

Maybe Mr. Pardoe can explain it ?
My guess is that the weight reduction may be 1/2 pound.
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Old 04-29-12, 07:29 PM   #22
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My guess is that the weight reduction may be 1/2 pound.
That sounds more reasonable to me and about what I would expect. One hardly needs a scale to make the distinction between 1/2 pound and several pounds. The product might be great but for me anything Gates' claims is suspect until proven.
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Old 04-29-12, 08:47 PM   #23
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From a performance view point it isn't the weight that would be the deciding factor but the efficiency. I haven't heard of any independent testing comparing the belt to a roller chain for this application though.
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Old 04-29-12, 08:57 PM   #24
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Have test ridden several prototype innovations for tandems, including c/f tabs for discs front and rear, a belt sync drive before Co-Motion/Gates got into it, c/f tidbits like eccentric, stoker stems, K-grips, and even c/f rear rack. Test ridden/evaluated several prototytpe tandems thoughout our decades of riding.
Some of these worked out fine, others never got past the prototype stage.
Someone has to ride/evaluate it and we've been 'test dummies' for years . . . but, we never had to pay to test them.
While the Gates belt does offer some perceived advantages for some, for others (like us) it's not an issue to run a real chain.
Will be starting some test riding on an improved tandem product again next week . . .
Pedal on TWOgether!
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Old 04-29-12, 09:05 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by waynesulak View Post
That sounds more reasonable to me and about what I would expect. One hardly needs a scale to make the distinction between 1/2 pound and several pounds. The product might be great but for me anything Gates' claims is suspect until proven.
I looked at the potential weight savings of the Gates drive vs. a 10 speed chain here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by post at link
Weight savings of a Gates Carbon Drive over a lightweight chainring and chain:
  • 112 gm
  • 0.247 lb
  • 3.95 oz
The weight savings on a Gates are largely dependent on the chain it replaces. If it is a heavy chain the savings can be considerable, since a sync chain is relatively long. With a more expensive 10-speed chain (e.g. Dura-Ace), the savings are relatively modest.
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