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Old 03-11-12, 01:21 AM   #1
michaelofnsh
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140mm OLD hub options?

It's time to introduce STI shifting to our 1980 Santana tandem, only problem is finding a suitable rear hub for the 140mm OLD spacing.

I'd prefer to avoid cold setting in favor of using a modified hub. I'm leaning towards an older XTR M950 hub with a longer replacement axle. I can't seem to find much info on whether this would work and where to find a 150mm replacement axle thats up for the job. Anyone have experience with this?

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Old 03-11-12, 05:59 AM   #2
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Hi Michael;

Peter White lists a 140mm OLD Phil Wood hub here: http://www.peterwhitecycles.com/Tandemparts.asp

But I could not find 140mm listed on Phil Wood's website....

I recently scored a 140mm OLD Hugi wheelset from a Trek T200 on ebay; it needs work. Our T50 has Sansin sealed bearing hubs - much higher quality than the similar vintage Hugi's; and unfortunately stuck with Suntour 7 speed cassettes. I am also still looking for a solution. These are the hubs we have: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Sans...item43ab5c54d6

Sometime after I get home from this business trip; I am going to mock up a 145mm OLD using a piece of threaded rod to see if and how 145mm OLD would work in our T50. You may want to try the same as part of your search. On the cheap, you can use 3/8" threaded rod from HD or Lowes or similar.

I definitely want threading for a drum brake OR a six bolt ISO disc mount. I have something unique planned for a velocity dependent drag brake, and either mounting will work for me.

I also want 40H or 48H; as we are a HEAVY team.

Last edited by nfmisso; 03-11-12 at 06:09 AM.
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Old 03-11-12, 08:05 AM   #3
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I've no experience with it, but I do know that the XTR hubs are pretty tough.

This axle would need to be cut down.

http://www.loosescrews.com/index.cgi...id=76666387662

Precision Tandems lists some axles as well in their hub section (DT Hugi and down farther under "Q.R. AXLES AND AXLE SETS FOR HUBS")

http://www.precisiontandems.com/catframepart.htm

I would maybe give Jack at Tandems LTD a call to see what he has around as well.

http://www.tandemsltd.com/

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Old 03-11-12, 09:03 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by michaelofnsh View Post
I'd prefer to avoid cold setting in favor of using a modified hub.
Not trying to talk you out of it, but do you mind if I ask why? Cold setting 2.5mm on each side shouldn't even stress crack the paint.
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Old 03-11-12, 09:53 AM   #5
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I upgraded our old 80's Santana with 140mm spacing 2-3 yrs ago, using a Shimano HF-08 145mm hub -
http://www.jensonusa.com/!OdQbdQN3lvwIw6Wd5uJzaw!/Shimano-HF08-Tandem-Hub

It required essentially no change in the rear spacing. There was a lil bit (1-2mm??) of extra room in the dropouts, and the new one fits with very easy "stretch" when installing the wheel.

I'm "still" running 48 spoke wheels. We're not that heavy. I'm just one of these guys that thinks spokes isn't a wise place to try to save weight. I built my first set of wheels in 1985 with 48 spokes. Rode 7000 miles, 25 yrs on them, with an occasional touch-up truing, never a problem or broken spoke. I'm still running 36 spokes on my single for the same reason. I'd rather be riding one-millionth of a percent slower on a wheel that's genuinely up to the task, than spending money or time truing. Just one guy's view.

Last edited by chris ss; 03-11-12 at 09:57 AM.
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Old 03-11-12, 12:00 PM   #6
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I would cold set, a 145 hub "squeezes in" on my Sterling /Bilenky with 140 spacing, but I do plan on cold setting to make it a lot easier to change a flat
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Old 03-11-12, 12:46 PM   #7
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RE: cold setting

Cold setting is starting to look like the easiest option.
As Chris mentioned ours has 1-2mm of space already.
Also, looking at the HF-08 hub it looks to have a big old spacer on the drag brake side that could be swapped for a narrower one.

Reasons for not wanting go with the cold setting/ Shimano HF-08 hub:

Won't be using the drag brake, 40 spokes is probably overkill, I don't like how it looks with the unused threads. Heavy. Cold setting will stress the dropout and may effect the alignment.

That said a new wheel is about 250.00 bucks on ebay so that might change the picture.

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Old 03-11-12, 04:19 PM   #8
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You might need to re dish the wheel if you replace that spacer.
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Old 03-11-12, 04:51 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nfmisso View Post
Hi Michael;

Peter White lists a 140mm OLD Phil Wood hub here: http://www.peterwhitecycles.com/Tandemparts.asp

But I could not find 140mm listed on Phil Wood's website....
PW hubs can be easily modified if the parts are available. It took 10 minutes to swap the spacing on the hub for my fixed gear bike. Definitely worth a call to PW if you are truly interested in this option.
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Old 03-11-12, 05:23 PM   #10
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... looking at the HF-08 hub it looks to have a big old spacer on the drag brake side ...
Well now that you bring that up, you're right - I recall swapping out or removing a spacer. I just measured it again right now -- it is definitely exactly at 140mm.

Sorry, I can't remember exactly what I did, but whatever I ended up doing, it is definitely right on 140mm spacing.
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Old 03-11-12, 05:28 PM   #11
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Well that's easy. Remove a spacer and I'm good to go!

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Old 03-12-12, 07:56 AM   #12
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yup pretty much a nobrainer go for it

don't know where you are but it's starting to get warm here in Ohio + we are getting the itch to get out there

got in a beautiful 20 miles in shorts in the sunshine yesterday afternoon
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Old 03-13-12, 12:09 AM   #13
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I picked up a brand new 140 mm DT hugi hub on eBay a few months ago. I'd love to see it go to a good home, but I live in Switzerland. Let me know if you're interestedand we could try to arrange something.
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Old 03-13-12, 12:35 AM   #14
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There are a TON of 140mm hub options.

I picked up a 140mm Hope HG cassette hub that is threaded for an Arai drum brake.

I also have a Sansin tandem hub (also rebranded as Suntour Superbe Pro hubs) that were available spaced to 140mm (as mine are). Unbelievably smooth cartridge bearings on the Sansins, if I had to admit it, even smoother than my Mavic and Phil Wood hubs.

You can still order 140mm tandem hubs from Phil Wood:

http://philwood.com/store/page22.html

I've got a 36h Phil Wood tandem hub that is threaded for an Arai drum brake that I've been meaning to respace (with a new axle endcap) since my attempted trade for a 48h Phil Wood 140mm hub fell through.

I've got those, and I haven't even been looking. 140mm was very common before Cannondale went to 145mm.
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Old 03-13-12, 06:08 PM   #15
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I have a set of White Industries Rocket hubs (built to 140, but can be re-dished to 145mm with an adapter I have) built by Peter White with 36 hole Campy Atlanta clinchers that have had about 100 miles before I moved onto another tandem and couldn't use these wheels any longer. If you're interested, send me a PM.

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Old 03-13-12, 06:26 PM   #16
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I have a set of White Industries Rocket hubs built by Peter White with 36 hole Campy Atlanta clinchers that have had about 100 miles before I moved onto another tandem and couldn't use these wheels any longer. If you're interested, send me a PM.


If I only had something to hang them on....
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Old 03-18-12, 09:06 AM   #17
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You may be able to use the 145 mm axle if it carefully adjusted If fact I would recommend it. I did this on my cannondale single using a 135 mm axle in a frame with 130 mm dropouts. If the dropouts are thick there will be no problem if they are thin some quick releases will allow the axle to stick out 2 mm and still work they are cupped. A longer axle will do less damage on the frame if it is aluminum and less damage to the axle if it is steel. SJS carries the Shimano axles http://www.sjscycles.co.uk/shimano-f...806-prod21079/
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Old 03-18-12, 10:55 AM   #18
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I have a set of White Industries Rocket hubs (built to 140, but can be re-dished to 145mm with an adapter I have) built by Peter White with 36 hole Campy Atlanta clinchers that have had about 100 miles before I moved onto another tandem and couldn't use these wheels any longer. If you're interested, send me a PM.
If only I had extra money...
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Old 08-13-12, 12:19 PM   #19
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Here is another option:
http://www.amazon.com/Wheel-Master-A...dem+Hub%2C+40h

it is 135mm OLD, but easily spaced out to 139mm with a couple of 2mm washers.

It is NOT rebuild-able. It has BEEFY sealed bearings, and it is all glued together like a HDD bearing cartridge.
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Old 09-02-12, 10:35 AM   #20
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I just scored a brand new Handspun wheel on ebay for an incredibly ridiculously low winning bid, arrived yesterday: 40H Shimano HF08 hub, DT Swiss 2.0 spokes and Dyad rim.

There is a 5mm spacer and some washers on the left side; remove the spacer, shift the axle to the right (cone and cup bearings so easy to do) so that there is an equal amount of axle on each side. The Q/R provided has unusually long thread, there will be some of the shaft sticking out on the right side, but should not be an issue because the derailleur will stick our a lot further.

If you are build a wheel from scratch; all of this is no problem. If starting with a built wheel, the wheel should be re-dished to center the rim between the lock nuts. This is only 2.5mm, and in many cases you can cheat that much with minimal ill effects. Redishing is easy to do on a truing stand - so mine will be redished.
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Old 08-12-16, 11:07 PM   #21
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hello guys. well, my rear wheel on the 1989 Kuwahara tandem finally bought it. snapped a few spokes and pulled others through the rim. Anyway, I am trying to source a new 140mm spaced 48 spoke hub. the one I have now is ok (and even has a working freewheel on it). Still, the current hub is 27 years old and might need replacement. as it is, I am going to have to end up rebuilding the wheel. I have a Donar rim on the way (brand new, 48 hole champion brand). I just need the hub and spokes. I have been trying to source this through all the usual places and am coming up short. if any of you happen to have a spare sitting around doing nothing, I would like to hear from you.

Also, as I am the blind person who is a stoker, I am on a bit of a limited budget (try disability). so, I am asking if anyone would be willing to donate to help get this blind athlete back to riding.

lastly, there certainly seems to be a lot of good info here and I even found a few new places to check that I didn't know about before Given some issues with my screen reader, Ebay hasn't exactly been usable for me.

also, if you want to help me out in other ways, I have a site setup for that. It's hosted by the United States Association of Blind Athletes here: http://www.tiny.cc/EricOyen
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Old 08-12-16, 11:43 PM   #22
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If the old hub is in good shape, then it likely could last a good long time with new bearings and possibly new cones.

What brand of hub are you using? Freewheel or Cassette?

I'd go ahead and source good name brand spokes though. DT, Sapim, or a few other brands (get spokes after you decide what to do with the hub).

And if you do need a new hub, what type of brakes are you using? Number of speeds on rear?

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Old 08-14-16, 12:36 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by michaelofnsh View Post
Cold setting is starting to look like the easiest option.
As Chris mentioned ours has 1-2mm of space already.
Also, looking at the HF-08 hub it looks to have a big old spacer on the drag brake side that could be swapped for a narrower one.

Reasons for not wanting go with the cold setting/ Shimano HF-08 hub:

Won't be using the drag brake, 40 spokes is probably overkill, I don't like how it looks with the unused threads. Heavy. Cold setting will stress the dropout and may effect the alignment.

That said a new wheel is about 250.00 bucks on ebay so that might change the picture.

M
We have a '92 Santana Sovereign which was the very last of the steel frames before they changes to aluminium.
I tried helping my frame builder friend cold set the rear to 145mm. With 250kg of 2 big guys leaning on a 2" pipe we couldn't reset the frame even 1 mm. I didn't want to heat the frame and be up for the cost of a new paint job so the bike still has a 140mm CK disc hub rear wheel.
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Old 08-14-16, 10:21 PM   #24
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.....I am trying to source a new 140mm spaced 48 spoke hub......
silver: HUB RR WM MT1110 QR SF 9sCAS 48x135 SB SL

black: HUB RR WM MT1110 QR SF 9sCAS 48x135 SB BK

These are my got to hubs, available in 40h and 48h: strong, reliable, cartridge bearing, inexpensive.

On a tandem, pair with a Velocity NoBS rim: RIM VEL 700 NoBs 48 SL-MILL

And Wheelsmith DB14 spokes; for wheels that are rugged enough for 500+lbs team plus gear.
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Old 08-28-16, 08:07 AM   #25
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Tandems East has options, I believe. I bought a 140mm White Industries hub from them in December.
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