Tandem Tom

The Garmin 800 arrived yesterday from REI. Had to have them find our membership #. We joined in 1977! I just ordered it on Tuesday. So yesterday I got to play around with it and see just some of what is possible. I did get the mount installed. It will be the Stoker's toy! One of the reason we got it was for the HR monitor. My wife can easily run her rate up to 180+ so we thought that we could keep tabs on her during some of our climbs.
Today we will take a ride up to the LBS so I can borrow a cable stretcher to do a real proper job of installing the Speed/Cadence unit cable ties. They are quite chunky and I always seem to have a problem getting them tight.
The CatEye wired computer that I modified by lengthening the cable started acting up just last week so I am getting a Stem Mount kit so I can have it up front.
So if anyone out there has one and has some tips I am all hears!
Thanks!

p2templin

Use the lap button at each break to isolate your ride into smaller segments. This makes it easier to assess whether her performance is decreasing over the ride, after you download your data into the PC or Garmin Connect.

Use one page for "real-time" numbers (speed, HR, HR zone, cadence, grade), one page for lap stats (lap avg speed, last lap avg speed, lap cadence, etc.), and the third page for ride tallies (distance, time, climbing, calories burned, etc.).

If you decide to do navigation, you'll find the onboard map is very limited. Buy a 2GB micro SD card (it must be 2GB, no larger, as far as I know), then buy the Garmin MapSource City Navigator NT. Be sure to buy it as a DVD install, not as an online download. With DVD install, you install the map on your computer, then push it to the unit, allowing you to create your cycling routes on the computer. With online download, the map is only in the Garmin, so you can only create cycling routes on the computer while the Garmin is cabled to the USB port.

We have a Garmin Edge 705 (captain) and 800 (stoker). I have a serious itch to upgrade to the 800, in the hopes that we can swap units (so I can see her HR/cadence and she can see mine; we ride a daVinci so the cadences can differ if one is coasting, and we have secondary computers which can show us our own HR/cadence).

Chris_W

No need to pay for maps, just Google OpenStreetMaps to get open-source map data.

I imagine your LBS is going to be very happy to lend you tools to install parts you bought online instead of from them.

Tandem Tom

My LBS is GREAT. They know I buy alot of stuff from them but with this Item @ $650 less 10% no shipping and no sales tax they understand. My bike that I bought last year along with clothing parts etc.. They do well. My next road bike,hopefully next year will come from them.

Tandem Tom

P2templin,
I am just starting to sort through ALL the stuff the 800 can do, I set-up the Speed/Cadence unit this after noon after we went out for a short ride to the LBS. I think it is going to take me a while to understand all the features and how to use them. I did manage to download a route from RideWithGPS to the 800 last night. So I am progressing very slowly.

rdtompki

RidewithGPS is a great site. I've starting using their TCX download which worked well on a recent 100K; at least it told us when we went off course. I don't know if you have maps on your 800, but you can download the Open Source Maps which are free. An 8Gbyte SD card will do the trick as the entire US is only about 4 gig. Turn by turn directions would be very useful for the stoker, but as captain I can't pay that much attention. Since we ride with Bluetooth headsets a BT interface to the Garmin would be sweet; maybe next generation.

Ritterview

$2

Tandem Tom

For $2 does it really work that well?

Ritterview

Its cinchy. I've got an even cheaper one, and it gets the cable ties on my Garmin speed/cadence sensor tighter than a stoker's handlebar grip on a 50 mph descent!

Kjkc

Bikely.com, bikeroutetoaster.com among others will allow you to create routes online, review elevation and export to your garmin.

twocicle

This is a really good thread at Garmin to sift through. Lots of options to pick from and intro level discussions of most...
https://forums.garmin.com/showthread.php?t=16626

I have an older Garmin GPSMap60CS and jealous of the flexibilty of the newer models, incl the 800. My unit is limited to only 56MB memory and can only work with the routable maps from Garmin software, which was a very expensive investment at the start for most all of North America and Europe and even more expensive to try keeping updated (basically repurchasing the same software over and over). It does work great though, so until it breaks, no upgrades for me if I can keep my sticky fingers from shopping online.

twocicle

We upgraded our old Garmin to a new Edge 800 unit about a month ago. Been using it on my single for a while and finally got another speed/cadence sensor for the tandem.

Seems to be working well. AFAIK, the ANT+ wireless spec is suppose to have a range of 3m (9ft-ish), which means the 5ft or so from the stoker chainstay to the stem mount is well within that. Sometimes the auto-stop/resume alert pops up for a couple seconds and I assume that means a temporary loss of signal(?) but it quickly resumes and data keeps updating. Oddly this happens in locations I never had a signal problem with my Polar setup. Conversely, some areas that consistently hosed all the Polar signals (heart, cad, spd) never effect the Garmin at all.

The 800 specs say this unit can handle up to 32GB microSD cards. I have a 8GB card and nearing 5GB of maps installed (City Navigator NA and Eur, and Topo NA regions), but only enable 1 map at a time to keep things running snappy. For now, have not actually needed any maps, routing or other POIs, but getting it all in place for a tour trip in a couple months.

With this setup it would be no problem at all hooking up a 2nd Edge 800 unit for the stoker and receive from the same spd/cad sensor, but I suspect she would start trying to route us to shopping destinations. My POIs only have B&B and Pubs

obrentharris 

If you use your Garmin a lot (several times a week)you may come to appreciate the REI lifetime guarantee. Garmin replaced my edge 305 after 11 months when the buttons stopped working. When it happened again in 6 more months they informed me that my warranty had expired and I was on my own. They did offer to send me another rebuilt one for $100. The rebuilt units come with a 30 day guarantee. A friend of mine who rides or hikes with his Garmin 800 almost every day has had similar luck with it. In my circle of mountain biking friends are two dead Garmin 500s.

Hopefully your experience will be different.
Brent (the wet blanket)

rdtompki

Check to see that you're getting a signal from the wheel sensor. We lost our wheel sensor prior to a climb and the Garmin-only speed has enough fluctuation to trip the auto-stop/resume function at low speed, and we do experience low speeds when climbing.

twocicle

Understand the point. Though in our case we were going near 24mph at the time. It was only at one new outage spot during the ride and did not repeat at a later known bad spot.

Is there another method to check the sensor other than stop and spin the wheel off the ground?

---

Oh BTW, I read up a bit on this next point after experiencing it... forget the Auto Wheel Size calibration. I tried it a few times on my single while riding on a straight, open bit of road and held the same speed. Each time Auto Cal varied a fair amount and always at least a 100mm short of the true wheel size (which I verified using the manual weighted rollout method). Honestly, it seems the wheel size chart in the manual seems a lot more accurate than the Auto calibration, so just punch in the numbers manually and be done with it. You can tweek the size later once you ride some stretches of road that have good mile markers.

Ritterview

Once the Garmin 800 is fired up and working, the next thing to do is get a free account, and upload the rides to Strava.

Strava is a combination of cycling GPS, social networking, route finding, and competition.

One popular feature is user-defined segments, such as a stretch of road or a climb. All the cyclist has to do is ride, and upload the ride from the Garmin (or smartphone as well). On the ride upload report is included the segments, and how you rank on the segments with perhaps the hundreds of Strava users that have ridden the segment. For example, I rank 43 out of 163 men on Old Tollhouse, and 660 out of 3100 men on Old La Honda. Info like that can be very illuminating (or humbling). Unfortunately, Strava has no accommodation for tandems.

Another item to consider is a Bar Fly. The Garmin 500 or 800 goes right in. it is very nice to have the Garmin ahead of the handlebar.

Tandem Tom

This was a timely post as it reminded me to order one of these for our tandem. We will be using it on the stoker's handle bar facing backwards. This will get it away from my butt!

twocicle

Yeah, the Barfly or K-Edge would make the Garmin easier to view, though I haven't decided yet as I really wanted a mount to attach to the left side in order to keep the clear view of my inline gear indicator. For the stoker setup it will go on the top tube with the standard Garmin mount, which I think is a better protected location than sticking out the rear

Carbonfiberboy 

When following a course, we get "off course" msgs sometimes and think it has to do with riding near trees or in steep areas, due to satellite loss. Our 800 also doesn't work very well in the woods. Hiking, if we stop in an open area, we get satellites and can see where we are, but there are hardly any points showing on our track.

A tip: never load more than one course into memory, both on the 800 or on a card. It can't figure it out and will not follow your chosen course. So when you add a new course, delete any old courses.

Ritterview

On the Weight Weenie forum there is a long thread about computer mounts. A poster from the UK on the forum has a boutique business (RaceWare Direct) designing/making/selling computer printed plastic items including Garmin mounts. The website listing now shows only right sided mounts (and these sold out), but they have made and sold left sided mounts. The users at WW's have liked these RaceWare mounts. They are a tad lighter than the Bar Fly, and the mounting arm comes out from below the handlebar, rather than above as in the Bar Fly. This keeps the Edge in line with the handlebar instead of above it. It therefore looks cleaner.

p2templin

We have no trouble choosing from amongst several courses; instead we have trouble getting many courses into it ("Location Memory Full", and one or more courses randomly don't show up).

waynesulak

I like many have a love hate relationship with my Garmin. There is a running joke on the local Rando list about people getting serious bonus mileage on brevets when relying on Garmin routes and not checking the cue sheet.

Carbonfiberboy 

We have no problem either loading or choosing courses. It's just that when we have more than one TCX course loaded, turn-by-turn directions are spectacularly unreliable. With a big TCX file running about 1MB and the resulting FIT file running about 100KB, hard to see how one could fill an 4 to 32GB card.

twocicle

I gave up on looking for alternate Garmin specific mounts, mostly due to the overpriced nature of the beasts ranging from $20 to $50. For a $2 option, this is fine... (https://www.ebay.com/itm/BIKE-COMPUTE...item4604023cd4), but the shipping will cost you more than the component. I opted for a "Carbon tube" version from Amazon that nets for almost the same price after shipping.

twocicle

After initial setup and usage, our Edge 800 has been very solid with signal and data. Locking in our 700x25c wheel size with a manually obtained value (2015mm) has our distance readings spot on. I have not noticed any spurious stop/start events other than during our initial 2 rides.

Here's some other feedback I have...

The Garmin Edge units have an Auto Start function and the cycling functionality integration is very good. You can add multiple Edge units to your bike to receive data from the Ant+ sensors without interference from other units.

Based on my shopping comparisons and purchases, buying the Cad/Spd sensor, Premium HR belt, and map software separately (Amazon) is more cost effective. The Cadence/Speed (Ant+) sensor can be purchased for only $35 and mounts simply and solidly. Signal to the front Edge unit is solid. I have not tested the maximum distance with the Cad/Spd sensor, but my Ant+ heartrate belt ($45 for the "premium" belt) works up to 27 paces (~80ft) away! If you need City Navigator or Topo software for an Edge 800 unit, that can be had for ~$70.

While the basic Edge 500 w/o sensors (retail $250) is $200 less than the basic Edge 800 ($450) unit, for that extra $200 you get all the mapping and route directions you'd expect in a fully functional GPS unit (the 500 has a GPS and tracks your rides, but has no mapping functionality whatsoever). Discounts from stores like CompetitiveCyclist are widely available (eg: TDF20 gets you 20% off, so think more like $200 and $360 respectively).

My Garmin Edge gripes may be:
- lack of a calculated power reading like some other cycling computers have. I see no reason they could not provide this in the current units. Garmin is coming out with their own power sensor pedals so you may assume some marketing tact on that, but I believe providing the calculated power would promote interest in that area and stimulate pedal sales rather than the opposite.

- The Garmin Edge "Calorie Count" can be way off. This is a known problem - search online. My HR belt is the latest and works perfectly showing good readings and signal distance/strength.

- The Garmin software (either "Training Center or the onlline "Garmin Connect") have somewhat limited fitness data functionality. I prefer to keep my fitness info in Polar Precision Performance software by exporting the rides from the Training Center as "tcx" files, then converting to Polar format using a 3rd party utility (tcx2hrm) and then importing into the Polar software. By importing into the Polar software, I can get a much better overall view of my training information and a true Calorie count reading as it recalculates everything based on my specific HR, threshold and VO2 information. Being a long time Polar user, I am more used to this software and have years of data history stored in that already.

Definitely recommend using one of the alternate Edge mounting options (above) to place the unit more in the line of sight and allow for adjusting the screen angle to yield the best clarity. The Edge screen is definitely smaller and harder to see map info than my old and larger "brick" GPSMap60CS, so good mounting placement is imperative. This is mostly a "map reading and directions" necessity, as for normal - local riding without using the maps I find the default on-the-stem location adequate.