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Thread: Miche cassette

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    Miche cassette

    Does anyone have experience with a Miche cassette on a tandem? They offer a12-27 that has the ratios that I would like to have; 12-13-14-15-17-19-21-23-25-27. We are currently using an 11-28 Shimano Ultegra and I domnot like the 21-24-28.

    You can also buy individual replacement cogs for the Miche however I am concerned about the integrity of the Miche cassette.

    Wayne

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    Gear Combo Guru Chris_W's Avatar
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    Shimano also now makes a 12-28 cassette, I believe in both Tiagra (cheaper) and Ultegra (lighter) versions. This does away with the 11 tooth cog that you get in the 11-28 in exchange for having tighter spacing in the low gears (21-23-25-28). All Shimano cassettes I've ever used have shifted better than the Miche cassettes, and Shimano is more readily available.
    Last edited by Chris_W; 08-26-12 at 11:32 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris_W View Post
    Shimano also now makes a 12-28 cassette, I believe in both Tiagra (cheaper) and Ultegra (lighter) versions. This does away with the 11 tooth cog that you get in the 11-28 in exchange for having tighter spacing in the low gears (21-23-25-28). Al Shimano cassettes I've ever used have shifted better than the Miche cassettes, and Shimano is more readily available.
    Chris, that might work, I found a SRAM 12-28 but not a Shimano Ultegra 12-28, do you known who has the Ultegra available?

    Thanks,

    Wayne

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    Senior Member waynesulak's Avatar
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    I found a Tiagra 10-Speed 12-28 with the 21-23-25-28 low gears but no Ultegra or 105. The Shimano USA site still shows Tiagra as 9 a speed group but the Shimano Europe site shows the Tiagra group as 10-Speed with a 12-28 cassette. The same site does not show the 12-28 available in any other 10 speed group.

    Tiagra has all cogs rather than a aluminum spider to save weight. The larger cogs are connected to protect the free hub. I have attached the Shimano document on the cassette. I am not sure how much it weighs but since Shimano's cog profiles are patented I think that I will order one of these for $42 and see what it is like.

    http://www.universalcycles.com/shopp...9&category=359
    Attached Files Attached Files

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    Gear Combo Guru Chris_W's Avatar
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    You are correct, the only 10-speed 12-28 cassette that Shimano makes is in the Tiagra range, I was mistaken in thinking that there is a higher-end version.

    The fact that the larger cogs of the Tiagra cassettes are not mounted on a spider will not be a problem if your freehub is not aluminum (i.e., if a magnet sticks to it, then you are safe).

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    I talked to Shimano yesterday and that is exactly what the tech said. He also said that the Tiagra was very heavy. I am seriously considering the Miche.

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    I think Shimano offers also a (4600-series) Tiagra 10speed 30-12: 30-27-24-21-19-17-15-14-13-12
    But then this one also has a 24-21 which you experienced as a unconvenient 'gap' (more than the 28-24 I presume) Advantage in comparison with the 27(28)-12 is the extra low gear (30) you'll probably need in the mountains. However at the cost of a lacking '16' you'll miss very frequently on the flat: It's always a matter of compromise when you use out-of-the-shelf cassettes.

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    Senior Member waynesulak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DubT View Post
    I talked to Shimano yesterday and that is exactly what the tech said. He also said that the Tiagra was very heavy. I am seriously considering the Miche.
    Let us know how it works out if you buy a Miche. My expierence with IRD was fair shifting and they were pretty heavy as well. Individual cogs add weight but would allow for customization if desired.

    I have used Tiagra cassettes before and the shifting was as good as Ultegra to me. I have ordered the Tiagra 12-18 $38 on Amazon. I will post the weight and results when it arrives.

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    Gear Combo Guru Chris_W's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hortan View Post
    I think Shimano offers also a (4600-series) Tiagra 10speed 30-12: 30-27-24-21-19-17-15-14-13-12
    But then this one also has a 24-21 which you experienced as a unconvenient 'gap' (more than the 28-24 I presume) Advantage in comparison with the 27(28)-12 is the extra low gear (30) you'll probably need in the mountains. However at the cost of a lacking '16' you'll miss very frequently on the flat: It's always a matter of compromise when you use out-of-the-shelf cassettes.
    There is also a lighter version of the Shimano 12-30 cassette, with an Ultegra-level model that puts the largest cogs on a spider (I'm certain about it this time, this is what lead me to erroneously believe that they had also released an Ultegra 12-28). At the shop I work at in Switzerland, near the Alps, we can barely keep up with the demand for the 12-30 cassettes. The spacing is better than on the 11-32, they give a better climbing range than the 11-28, and they work with nearly all road rear derailleurs after screwing the B-screw all the way in. I've been using the 12-30 on my single bike for a while (with 33-48 chainrings) and have not had any problems with the gear spacing, and the range is ideal for me for mountainous terrain (my cadence gets a bit low on longer sections of >=10%, and I can't really pedal above 60 kph, but those are both pretty rare situations).

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    Miche has the advantage of being completely customizable for tooth counts. To do that, they use full, loose cogs (no spiders), so the weight will be more than it would be for a weight-optimized cassette with spider and the inner portion of the cogs cut away. I suspect the weight difference is about the same as one or two extra energy bars in your back pocket ... not worth the worry, IF you can get the gears you want.

    I've successfully inserted individual Miche cogs into Shimano cassettes on my half-bike(s) in order to get certain sprocket progressions. As mentioned above, Universal Cycles (and others) sell the cogs separately.

    Miche also makes both Shimano and Campagnolo-compatible cassettes (you can't mix between them, but they make cogs that will work on the two).

    There is a vendor on eBay UK who will make up custom cassettes using Miche parts. Cost, with shipping to US, is about 45 UK pounds. This is a less expensive approach if you want a whole cassette and not just a cog or two.

    It's worth it to spend some time with one of the on-line gear tools ( http://home.earthlink.net/~mike.sherman/shift.html by Mike Sherman is a nice one; has many of the commercially-available ones already there to try out) and really think about what range you need. The "semi-log" graphic helps point out the flow and the relative jumps between gears.

    On a single, for us non-racers, about about 30 or 35 mph downhill it is faster to tuck than to pedal on a single bike, so a gear above 100 inches is wasted. That means that if your big chainring is more than 48 teeth, those 11 and 12 tooth cogs are just taking up a space in the cassette that you could use somewhere between say 16 and 20, and which the cassette maker might have decided that you don't need. High gear choices for a tandem migh vary, but it is still nice if the cyclist, and not the cassette manufacturer, can pick what they want. Like in the old days of 5-speed freewheels and the board of cogs in the bike shop.
    Last edited by moleman76; 08-27-12 at 12:55 AM. Reason: thought of something to add!

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    Senior Member waynesulak's Avatar
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    I received the Tiagra 12-32 cassette. It is loose cogs with the top 8 bolted together with plastic spacers in between the cogs. Looks like that would protect an AL freehub much better than an Ultegra cassette. Each cog engages all the slots in the freewheel unlike the Ultegra which only engages every other slot.

    The cogs are:
    12-13-14-15-17-19-21-23-25-28

    Biggest jump is the 15 to 17 at 13.333%
    Ultegra 12-27 has a larger jump from the 21 to 24 of 14.286%

    The 32 cogs has an indentation to place it slightly inboard of the free hub but it appears not quite as far inboard as a standard DA, Ultegra or 105 cassette. I had to adjust the RD slightly after installing the cassette. Once installed it worked fine and shifts just like an Ultegra cassette. I have used it about 200 miles.

    Weight of Tiagra 12-32 with steel lock ring: 315 grams
    Weight of Ultegra 12-27 with steel lock ring 269.5 grams
    Diff 45.5 grams

    Appearance of finish is not as good as the Ultegra until after a 100 miles or so then it just looks like every other cassette with chain lube on it.

    I guess the question is do you want to spend the 45.5 grams to get the gearing you want?

    I am happy with it for hilly routes. It is nice not to have to worry about the speedclips falling out when i change cassettes.

    For flat routes I would prefer the 12-25 with closer spacing. Largest jump 17 to 19 of 11.765%




    DUBT: How is the Miche cassette working out?
    Last edited by waynesulak; 09-18-12 at 02:43 PM.

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    I did purchase a 12-27 Miche cassette and so far it is working just fine. The only issue is that it is right at 100 grams heavier than the Shimano Ultegra 11-28 that it replaced. However we really like the ratios. I used the 52/28 on a regular basis and in our Illinois wind found that the shift from the 28 to the 24 was not comfortable for us. The 28 would be to low and the 24 would be to high, we would be spinning out in the 28 or struggling to stay on top of the gear in the 24. With the Miche 27/25/23 I can find a comfortable gear. Stoker noticed it yesterday in the wind, we are happy with the ratios. It will be interesting to see how long it lasts.

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    I replaced the Miche with a SRAM, it is 94 grams lighter and shifts MUCH better. The Miche had decent ratios but the 27/25/23/21 combo was almost to close. The SRAM has 27/24/21/19 and I think it will better serve our needs. The Miche was OK but I had to overshift from the smaller cogs to the larger cogs, that is not the case with the SRAM. I had the shifting adjusted so that it shifted a bit slow on a couple of cogs going from large to small. If i would have adjusted for crisper shifting small to large then it would not shift large to small. The SRAM shifts both ways exceptionally well.

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    Senior Member waynesulak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DubT View Post
    I replaced the Miche with a SRAM, it is 94 grams lighter and shifts MUCH better. The Miche had decent ratios but the 27/25/23/21 combo was almost to close. The SRAM has 27/24/21/19 and I think it will better serve our needs. The Miche was OK but I had to overshift from the smaller cogs to the larger cogs, that is not the case with the SRAM. I had the shifting adjusted so that it shifted a bit slow on a couple of cogs going from large to small. If i would have adjusted for crisper shifting small to large then it would not shift large to small. The SRAM shifts both ways exceptionally well.
    Nice to know about the balky shifting with the Miche cassette.

    Since the SRAM has 27/24/21/19 are the ratios the same as the 12-27 Shimano cassette?

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    Quote Originally Posted by waynesulak View Post
    Nice to know about the balky shifting with the Miche cassette.

    Since the SRAM has 27/24/21/19 are the ratios the same as the 12-27 Shimano cassette?
    The SRAM is 27/24/21/19/17/16/15/14/13/12 Which is the same as the Shimano but in the 105 series. The SRAM is the 1070 series. The Shimano weighs 256 grams and the SRAM 243. Not much difference but the SRAM 1070 compares more favorably with the Ultegra series from what I understand. The SRAM sure looks good, and shifts as good as or better than the 11/28 Shimano Ultegra.

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    Senior Member waynesulak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DubT View Post
    The SRAM is 27/24/21/19/17/16/15/14/13/12 Which is the same as the Shimano but in the 105 series. The SRAM is the 1070 series. The Shimano weighs 256 grams and the SRAM 243. Not much difference but the SRAM 1070 compares more favorably with the Ultegra series from what I understand. The SRAM sure looks good, and shifts as good as or better than the 11/28 Shimano Ultegra.

    I see that I am out of date on the current Ultegra specs. I have two Ultegra 12-27 10 speed cassettes which are 6600 rather than the current 6700. Interesting that they went to a wider 11-28 for Ultegra but continue to make the 12-27 in the lower price level 105 series.

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    Dura Ace 7900 has an 11-27 which is the same ratios as the 12-27 but you lose the 16t and get an 11t. This is definitely available. They also list a 12-27 on the Shimano website but I don't know if that is available.

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    One can ALWAYS build your own cassette from spacers and cogs. The only issue is some shifts won't be as perfect as with perfectly aligned ramps as with higher end Shimano and Campagnolo stuff. However, it is almost impossible to notice the difference on singles. On a tandem with shifts under load, that is something altogether different.

    A lot of people riding Campy drivetrains are noticing the Miche cassettes. I just got back from Veloswap, and my two cents is that one could have had $200 MSRP used cassettes all day long. While most of these had worn cogs from all the racers at the bottom of the cassette (11, 12, 13, maybe the 14) that the bigger cogs were all near new.

    If your cassette has a carrier or is pinned it is a simple enough job to take it to a machine shop to have it separated if you aren't mechanically inclined to do so yourself.

    Cassettes shouldn't be seen as disposable. Cogs should be.

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