chris ss

Spreading the dropouts is a very do-able step, most especially on this kind of frame. It's CONCEPTUALLY scary, but the practical act is quite mundane. Slow and firm does it fine, very low risk unless you allow yourself to try to hurry thru it. You can certainly do it yourself- there's probably good instruction on YouTube, or talk to your local bike shop guy or bikie mates, or PM me + I'll share my own experience.
As to the threading for drum brake, there's good odds you'd find the hub (new or used) by looking around - IF you need a drum/hub/disc brake in the end at all. I believe there's a distinct likelihood that with these new-compound brake pads (koolstop or similar) and new levers, you will not need the drum. Many tandem teams ride with just rim breaks. There's a long, heated, and ultimately indecisive debate running, one side of which maintains that the only reason to ever have anything beyond rim brakes, is for a very heavy (like big+loaded touring) tandem, on very long (3? 5? 10 mile?) sustained **steep** (5%, 7%, 9%?) declines, on which (some people assert that) there's some risk of overheating the rim brakes. (And/or on MTB tandems, off-road). Obviously you want and need A&U (and yourself) to be safe, but it's likely you'll be OK-to-very-OK.
From my own experience... I put these new compound brake pads on our '80's bike a couple years ago. We suddenly have a HUGE margin of braking power over what we could EVER want or need. A year later, just took the drum off to save weight. That thing will stop very quickly, downhill, from fast, if we need to.

ahh yes. perhaps hard on the knees & derailleurs, but so much of it is SOOOOO lovely! (Difficult in some ways to come back to Ohio where we ride many days mile after mile on straight+flat "section roads" bordered by corn or soybeans.) AND there are pubs in them-thar bends and hedgerows.
(I know there are less than there used to be, which is truly a shame, but enjoy 'em all still!)
(... and it's surely not the sustained miles-long downhills that (might) heat up rims and (might) require a drum/disc brake.)

We are happy to serve as "material witness A." For us they're a terrific improvement in captain's "quality of life," AND safety, AND smoothness of the team which means enjoyment for capt, but also for Admiral o' th' Poop Deck.
And Rule #1 of tandeming (...and life...) is "if mammy ain't happy, ain't NOBODY gonna be happy.

Good luck and have fun! CS

Ritterview

So in the 1970's era, which tandems were the bees knees? The Bob Jackson, apparently. What other brands?

Here are tandem pics from a 1970's NYC bike show to provide some examples.

Janis 

Hey, Will, congrats on your Gitane! I'll be following this thread and your blog with interest since DH and I just purchased a 1974 Gitane tandem yesterday. The stoker's compartment has a mixte frame that I prefer to the standard horizontal bar of our Burley Duet. The Gitane was restored and well cared for by its previous owner, so we took it for a short ride as soon as we got it home, inspected it, and made some slight adjustments. We were surprised by how easily it took the hills near our home.

DH already has a good idea of safety-related mods involving brakes, wheels, & stem, plus some comfort-related mods involving new saddles, handlebar grips, and pedals (as stoker, I prefer SPD pedals). Unlike the previous owner, we're not looking to remain period accurate - just want to enjoy the ride on a vintage tandem with personality.

Thanks for sharing your Gitane experience with us!

pargeterw

Chris:

Re: Spreading dropouts - I've now had a thorough read of Sheldon's article regarding this, and, I may well end up doing it - This depends on the budget holders opinion over hubs etc.

Re: Needing a drag brake - It will certainly be completing the London to Brighton every year, until we are unable. We do this in both directions, and Ditchling beacon has a max gradient of over 16%, or so I've heard. Follow THIS link, click "quietest route", and then have a look at the elevation profile; you'll see what I mean!

pargeterw

This is just making me jealous....

pargeterw

Hello - Thanks for your support!

There is actually some debate (HERE) as to whether mine is really from '73 as I stated at all, so it may be '74 like yours! It's near enough though...

I do like mixte frames, but, regardless of the fact that she only ever stokes, I don't think my partner would ever let me get away with a frame that, in effect, 'sexistly' confined her to the back!

DH and yourself sound like you're in it for a very similar reason to us. We of course have the added attachment that it's been in the family for an awfully long time, but it's really just the feeling of knowing you're sharing an experience, both in the maintenance and the use!

I'll be sure to put a post into this thread as and when I find time to update the blog,

Will

jimmuller 

About spreading the rear DOs, have you measured its width now? And do you know what width hub you'd be going for? I ask partly because I have no idea what modern tandem hubs are spec'ed for, nor have I ever measured ours. Never needed to.

Janis 

Hey, there's no reason to let a mixte frame dictate who rides in what position unless ya want it to. (just a friendly yank on your chain)

For DH and I, my stoker position has more to do with physical and practical differences, no sexism at all. For starters, he's a foot taller than I am, so it would be a rare tandem indeed that didn't make us pick a setup and stick with our respective positions (except maybe a recumbent or recumbent combo). DH is by far the stronger and more experienced rider, while I am actually (re)learning how to keep upright and pedal a bike under my own power.

I did wear a skirt for my inaugural ride on the mixte, just because I could, and I loved every second of it!

pargeterw

Haha : )

The reasons are similar for us; I'm a deal more experienced, and, while we're similar in height, my legs are several inches longer... Still, it's the perceived notion, that an unintelligent passer-by could assume, that the lady was required always to be at the mercy (and under the protection of), a man.

I think this is perhaps, irrelevant in any case, given that we've already got a 'double mens'!

pargeterw

QUICK, EVERYBODY, BACK TO THE BLOG! (there's another post, which you may or may not be interested in...?)

https://gitaingaves.blogspot.co.uk/

veggie

I think you are measuring your spacing off. it should be the distance within the dropouts, not outside.

pargeterw

Yes, SHELDON agrees with you! I think I was fooled because it was so perfectly 130mm on the outside! This means that the spacing is, in fact 124mm, (each dropout is 3mm thick) which I suspect is a slightly bent inwards 125mm?

Looks like a certain degree of stretching will be in order for sure then, it's just a question of +10mm, and if the money's there, is +20 too much?

Thanks for pointing this out!

Onegun

Your measurement is indeed off. It's a 125. Cold-setting a steel frame to 145 is not a problem, provided it's done evenly, and the dropouts will DEFINITELY have to be realigned afterwards. Expect some minimal paint cracking, however, and I would not recommend trying it yourself.

1" to 1 1/8" quill to threadless adapters work fine. Stem length and angle are entirely predicated upon your own physical dimensions. A professional fitting will tell you what you need.

The corrosion in the head tube is semi-normal for this age of steel bike, although still a tad scary. Just keep a wary eye on it. Any sign of it externally, like around the lugs/joints, and the frame is toast.

Never, ever re-use a headset of this quality and age. It was of minimal quality from the git-go, and is worse now. Further, never use a ball retainer that looks like this one. Note how you can almost get another whole ball in between each of these? Doubles the pressure on each ball and therefore both bottom races. Top line headsets have always been better, with the difference between retained and loose ball only being one or two balls. Include a good headset.

For stability's sake, most folks clamp their tandem by the rear seatpost and put the front wheel on a milk crate or some such. If you do this REMEMBER to leave the rotational clamp on your bike stand loose! If you don't, you'll finish up what you're doing, kick the milk crate out from under the front end and drop it down. SNAP! There goes your seatpost.

WheelsNT

Quill to threadless adapters are fine, but the one you linked to is a 1" to 1" adapter. At least in the US, 1" threadless stems are not the normal size, normal would be 1-1/8". The two stems you linked to are 1-1/8". You probably want an adapter like this one from the same seller: https://www.wiggle.co.uk/profile-quil...tem-converter/

pargeterw

Yes, I'd thought of this... I think if I'm going to 135, I'll do it myself, but if to 145, I'll outsource!

Do you have any idea what might be causing it?

Do you think just putting in a whole load of loose balls (spreads the load, as you say) will be OK? I can't see any visible damage to the races, and I think they may be slightly tricky to find in the right sizes?

This sounds like a fairly sensible solution, if I had a 'conventional clamp stand'. I don't. It's a home made set of planks etc, which again hangs from the ceiling (although this time via planks, not ropes) and is designed to perfectly fit my dad's solo, and less than perfectly every other solo. tandems haven't got a chance in hell.

pargeterw

Woops! Well noticed, thanks! : D

Onegun

The amount to bend is not really the deciding factor, but whether or not you are willing to take the time/make the investment in getting it right. You MUST bend each side out equally, otherwise you end up with a bike that "crabs" down the road and always has to be steered/leaned a bit to one side to correct. The best way to do this is to clamp the rear bottom bracket into a sturdy, rigid vise, (protected by wood on both sides, of course), have someone hold the front end of the bike for additional stability, and use a Park FFS-2. This isolates the chainstay you're trying to bend, so you're sure to bend just that stay half the desired distance. You can buy the tools, or you can make your own, (way cheaper/more time intensive).

The dropouts require at least a big adjustable wrench that will reach to the front of the dropout. Then a Park FFG-2 dropout alignment tool will tell you if you got it right. Again, you can buy or make the tool for this.

When you're done, be sure to "string the frame", meaning run a string from the back ends of the chain stays around the head tube and have someone hold it. Then measure from the string to the seat tubes on each side and make sure they are equal. Then do it with the back of the dropouts. Now you're done.

OR, you can take it to a competent shop and have them do it for a few dollars.

Moisture. It gets in frames a variety of ways. You can remove the headset cups, gently wire brush down the inside of the head tube, and coat it with grease if you like. But every steel frame is destined to rust out eventually, unless it is kept in the a/c 24/7/365. Even steel beams encased in a foot of concrete rust just from the tiny amount of moisture that manages to permeate that structure.

Loose balls are always in style. (Sorry, couldn't resist!) A Google search for "french threaded headsets" found as many as you need in the $20 -$25 bracket.

wheelspeed

My derailleur was having a similar problem on my single bike. It's a Shimano 600 from about 1988 I guess, but it got a bit of rain use, no maintenance, etc. I took it apart and found that the grease inside had turned to a paste type of sludge. Cleaned it, put good grease in, fought with it two or three times before figuring out the right way to reassemble it, and now it's good as new.

If you decide not to make updates to the bike, and don't have bent or broken parts on your derailleurs, then spend some time on them before deciding to buy new ones. I'd think you can save them.

pargeterw

Re: Frame Spreading.
I looked online and found that the bending tool you linked will cost me £99 in the UK, plus postage... I didn't even bother with the alignment thing... SHELDON suggests levering with a length of wood (which I like the sound of, as your tool can only do one stay at a time, whereas the lever will do seat, chain and that extra one?), and also describes a way of making your own alignment tool. Do you think this would be OK?

In an ideal world, I'll take it to a frame builder, who can do this, add a proper deraileur hanger, fill in the rear bb threads with braze and re-tap them, everything. BUT, well, in a word, money.

Re: Corrosion
I'm thinking of giving it a thorough clean, and then applying something like THIS

Re: Headsets
There was only one on Ebay.co.uk (notice the UK), and even Velo Orange costs a bomb since it's imported...

pargeterw

You may have a point here, but the deraileurs are one thing that my aunt and uncle specifically asked for me to replace, and, well, they're paying!

JanMM

Current 'standard' tandem OLD is 145mm. I understand Santana bikes are non-standard at 160mm.

pargeterw

I agree with this, and the Shimano XT tandem specific hub linked in the first blog post is 145mm, that said, it seems likely at the moment that we'll be getting the Sturmey Archer X-RDC (linked in most recent post) which is only 135mm

Onegun

Re: frame spreading

The old 2x4 method Sheldon mentions works, it's just unwieldly. And I assume you're referring to the threaded rod trick for the dropout alignment tool. That works too, but the finer threads you can find on the rods, the better.

Re: Corrosion
Probably work as well as any.

RE: Headsets
I'd almost guarantee that if you call 5 decent local bike shops, one of them has a french thread headset in stock that will fit. (After all, you can DRIVE to France from where you are now!) Watch your stack height, though. There were at least 2 different ones, (33mm and 41mm), and the forks were cut to match those. I'd take the old headset with me.

pargeterw

I can probably get some ultra fine one tapped specially...

You're probably right about this, although I can't see how they wouldn't be second hand? V.O. Is the only modern manufacturer that I can find (even searching french sites), and their only official stockist is in London, and costs and awful lot more than I'd like to spend.

Also, I live in darkest countryside, and it's a long way to our 'local bike shop', even further to the 5th nearest!

Onegun

You may be right, but one of the bigger, older shops might have some NOS (New - Old Stock) sitting around, or know someone who does. That was my thought.