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  1. #26
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    ... and back on topic... it's more-or-less November now... and still nothing to see regarding the 2013 Cannondale tandems? Looks like this was all just wishful thinking?

  2. #27
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    Would new Cannondale tandems come with Cannondale's famous 5 years, or less if you ride it Warranty?

    Cheers,

    Cameron

  3. #28
    Tandem Vincitur Ritterview's Avatar
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    Just talked to Rich, the manager at my LBS, who had inquired his Cannondale rep about their tandem franchise. His rep says that Cannondale is going to re-start production of tandems overseas. Rich figures that at this point, a 2013 model is not in the cards, but is hopeful that it will be a 2014 model which are introduced in June/July. Rich is to visit Cannondale HQ in Pennsylvania in June, and he promises to get the low-down on 'dale tandems at that time.

  4. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ritterview View Post
    Just talked to Rich, the manager at my LBS, who had inquired his Cannondale rep about their tandem franchise. His rep says that Cannondale is going to re-start production of tandems overseas. Rich figures that at this point, a 2013 model is not in the cards, but is hopeful that it will be a 2014 model which are introduced in June/July. Rich is to visit Cannondale HQ in Pennsylvania in June, and he promises to get the low-down on 'dale tandems at that time.
    Have to guess they couldn, t compete with the other American builders?I. Or they wanted a larger profit margin via cheap Chinese labor. Just have to hope they can keep the quality up

  5. #30
    Senior Member zonatandem's Avatar
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    Profit margin is a great in'cent'ive!
    Amazingly, while Asian labor co$t is lower, the sales prices in the US keep going up!
    We have owned 5 tandems, 4 of which were hand built in the USA. Assenmacher, Colin Laing, Co-Motion and Zona.
    Yup, cost a bit more than an outsourced one.
    Quality lasts!
    Pedal on TWOgether!
    Rudy and Kay/zonatandem

  6. #31
    Tandem Vincitur Ritterview's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ksisler View Post
    Have to guess they couldn, t compete with the other American builders?I. Or they wanted a larger profit margin via cheap Chinese labor. Just have to hope they can keep the quality up
    Uh, this happened four years ago. All the tandems Cannondale has been selling since were leftover U.S. production. That is why the only color has been white.

    Cannondale's U.S. Manufacturing Ending
    Apr 2, 2009

    New production is very good news, as there need be a new frame design, the latest RT2 iteration dating from the early 2000's? A CAD engineered tandem frame from the same people that produce the legendary CAAD-10 has the potential to immediately be both the best and least expensive aluminum tandem frame.


  7. #32
    Senior Member ahultin's Avatar
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    Latest RT2 frame was new design for the 2009 model yr which AFAIK was the only yr the frame was actually produced. All sold since then where leftover 2009 frames with slightly varied components

  8. #33
    hors category TandemGeek's Avatar
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    Mel @ Tandems East shared some of the details regarding the new Cannondale tandems. Because they're now made off-shore, it didn't pique my interest as much as it should have. I'll be talking with him again and will get the details, as he's already got a fairly large number of the bikes on order as his inventory of the RT2's has just about been consumed. I seem to recall that there were some spec changes on the components, including a possible sync belt vs. chain. I believe he also mentioned that there will be both road and off-road models again, but can't be positive about that. Frame design wise, I don't believe there was a big visible difference, although the BB's may have been updated for newer tech.

    Again, my apologies for not taking notes.... it was a sidebar discussion.

    Other new stuff included the first production lot of new drum brakes is close at hand. They're a bit more expensive than the Arai drum brakes that they replace. Shimano appears to be moving away from triple at the Ultegra level which will leave 105 as the high-end for triplets: welcome back to 1998 and the Erickson Gizmo.

  9. #34
    Senior Member waynesulak's Avatar
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    When in I was in the market for a high end bike In 2006 ther was a DA triple. Then the top triple became Ultegra now 105 is the top model.

    Anybody spot a trend?

    I am not holding out hope for an electronic triple.....

  10. #35
    hors category TandemGeek's Avatar
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    I haven't talked to Mel yet, but I did note that he now has some info up on his website for the 2013 Cannondale tandems:
    http://www.tandemseast.com/frames/cannondale.html

    Frame Geometry: http://www.tandemseast.com/frames/ca...em%20Specs.pdf

    Three models: Again, if you want a Cannondale Mel / Tandems East is always your best bet.

    - High-end RT1 in White @ $4,450 from Tandems East: BB30 - FSA SL-K Carbon Triple XTR RD, Ultegra STI, DT Wheels, Avid BB7 discs, Gates Carbon Belt Center Drive capable [guessing only on models with small rear compartment]
    - Value-based RT2 in Black @ $2,790 from Tandems East: Specs TBA, but probably on par with the older Street Tandem model.
    - New 29er model in Black @ $2790 from Tandems East; Specs TBA but also probably along the lines of the older Street Tandem model

    29er - It appears to be an artists rendering based on the RT1/2. Can't believe they'd fit it with drop-bars for the target market.
    Last edited by TandemGeek; 03-02-13 at 09:25 AM.

  11. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by waynesulak View Post
    When in I was in the market for a high end bike In 2006 ther was a DA triple. Then the top triple became Ultegra now 105 is the top model.

    Anybody spot a trend?

    I am not holding out hope for an electronic triple.....
    I like triples on my singles, smaller gaps between gears. It's interesting that Campy recently re-intorduced some road triple cranks apparently due to demand in Europe for climbing mountain passes, at least that is one thing Campy mentioned on the re-introduction.

  12. #37
    Tandem Vincitur Ritterview's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TandemGeek View Post
    Three models:
    • High-end RT1 in White @ $4,450 from Tandems East: BB30 - FSA SL-K Carbon Triple XTR RD, Ultegra STI, DT Wheels, Avid BB7 discs, Gates Carbon Belt Center Drive capable [guessing only on models with small rear compartment]
    • Value-based RT2 in Black @ $2,790 from Tandems East: Specs TBA, but probably on par with the older Street Tandem model.
    • New 29er model in Black @ $2790 from Tandems East; Specs TBA but also probably along the lines of the older Street Tandem model


    29er - It appears to be an artists rendering based on the RT1/2. Can't believe they'd fit it with drop-bars for the target market.
    The descriptions and the images are out of sequence at Mel's site. The artist's rendering I believe is the new RT1.
    Interestingly, the artist's rendering includes a Cannondale Hollowgram crank (in double). Like the BB30 tandem Calfee featured recently.





    It would be fairly easy to convert the Hollowgram to a tandem crank. Cannondale would need make a triple spider (none is available now), and reverse the threads, etc. Even though the specs list the FSA as the RT1 crank, the artists rendering suggests that at Cannondale there is at least ideation about equipping the RT1 with a Hollowgram. If Cannondale did make a tandem Hollowgram crank, it would be a boon for tandem crankset selection.

    Mel's specs don't mention the fork. That looks like it may be a carbon fork. The CAAD-X Cyclocross bike has a carbon disc fork, the Ultra X Disc Carbon. The artist's rendering fork looks a lot like the Ulta X Disc Carbon.



    If the RT1 has a purpose-built tandem carbon fork, it would be a tremendous value. The frame should be well designed and engineered, the components are good, what's not to like?

  13. #38
    hors category TandemGeek's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ritterview View Post
    The descriptions and the images are out of sequence at Mel's site. The artist's rendering I believe is the new RT1.
    Interestingly, the artist's rendering includes a Cannondale Hollowgram crank (in double).
    Again, I don't know what it really is or isn't, other than some kind of kluged together conceptual drawing. Once the specs are released -- noting that Mel is clear on his site that all he's received is very sketchy information and the frame dimensions -- we'll all know what they're offering.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ritterview View Post
    The frame should be well designed and engineered, the components are good, what's not to like?
    That it's made off-shore? I don't like that much. Call me old fashioned.

  14. #39
    Senior Member rdtompki's Avatar
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    Just slight off topic: It's interesting that FSA sells SL-K/SL-K Light triples for tandems and mountain bikes in the US, but their road triple is not available in the US. I had to order my road triple from an eBay seller in France. How many tandems do you see with FSA SL-K triples?
    Rick T
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  15. #40
    Tandem Vincitur Ritterview's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TandemGeek View Post
    That it's made off-shore? I don't like that much. Call me old fashioned.
    Yeah, but that Cannondale ship sailed 4 years ago, and it was among the last to do so. There is no getting around that East Asia has a competitive advantage in bicycle frame manufacturing. At NAHBS it is nice to see non-East Asian artisan bicycles, and that tandems play a prominent role. But the mainstream of the industry is largely East Asian in manufacturing.

    It is sort of hard to be a performance bicycle enthusiast, and be tortured by East Asian manufacturing of frames and components. If I was to attend Interbike, I'd surely see all sorts of items and developments of interest. If I deplore there everything manufactured in East Asia, there would hardly be a point in attending.

    Nothing to see here:


    As a tandem enthusiast, I think it is important that a mainstream bicycle company, in many bike shops, produces a tandem. The Cannondale RT1 appears to be a step up from the RT2. If for $4500 anyone can get a nicely appointed aluminum frame/carbon fork tandem in their size from their LBS without having to study up on tandems, that is a big deal. For all those cyclists I meet who tell me they've thought about getting a tandem, I can now say--No problem, just get an RT1, and you'll be good. Good frame, good components, great value. Until now, there hasn't been a tandem to which a noob can be so confidently directed. Hopefully Cannondale will sell lots of the these RT1's, and the ranks of tandem teams will swell. The artisan tandems such as seen at NAHBS are likely not being sold to tandem newbies, but likely as a definitive tandem to established tandem teams. The more established tandem teams there are, the more these artisan tandems will be sold. If the Cannondale RT1 can be the gateway drug of tandems, that is a good thing for tandem enthusiasts and the artisan brands too.

    (I'll own, however, that the RT1 is not a welcome development for Co-Motion, as they too have aluminum frames. If the RT1 has a carbon fork, the closest equivalent at Co-Motion is the Robusta (only has Rolfs), and lists for $7500).

  16. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by TandemGeek View Post
    That it's made off-shore? I don't like that much. Call me old fashioned.
    +1

  17. #42
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    Glad I decided to buy a nice used Cannondale tandem as opposed to waiting for 2013 models. I'll take possession of it tomorrow!

  18. #43
    Pic
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    Quote Originally Posted by TandemGeek View Post

    That it's made off-shore? I don't like that much. Call me old fashioned.
    +2
    Last summer when we started to explore the purchase of a tandem, our first, being made in the USA was very important to me. It was a big plus that on the side of our RT2 it says: "Handmade in the USA". I don't care if it was built in 2009. Built in America by Americans is what drove me to purchase it. And that is what will drive me to purchase our next tandem if/when we decide to move up.
    I'm tired of purchasing product made overseas. I'll gladly pay more to buy made in USA label.

  19. #44
    Tandem Vincitur Ritterview's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pic View Post
    +2 I'll gladly pay more to buy made in USA label.
    I paid dearly for my made-in-the USA Calfee Dragonfly frame, Enve rims, handlebar, stem, seatposts, eebrakes, and Lightning cranks, that was assembled in the USA. I didn't set out with any strong made-in-the-USA preference, but each component was selected because I thought it was the best. Selecting for the best ended up being very high in the Made-in-USA content.


  20. #45
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    Looking at the spec sheet for the 2013/2014 29er tandem... the BB is mighty low (11.5in front, 11.2in rear). Looks way more like a touring tandem with flat bars and 29er tyres (similar to the Co-Motion Java). Not knowing the AC length of the (rigid?) fork it'll ship with, looks like a suspension fork would muck the geometry too much or the rear BB would still be way too low? The RT1 sure looks nice though...

  21. #46
    Senior Member Clarabelle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zonatandem View Post
    Another American icon outsourced.
    +3

    Isn't it sad how we keep supporting businesses that ship jobs overseas. I've not regretted buying my American made Co-Motion tandem. My next bike will probably be by Bike Friday.
    Last edited by Clarabelle; 03-06-13 at 01:35 AM.

  22. #47
    hors category TandemGeek's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by StanleyJ View Post
    Looking at the spec sheet for the 2013/2014 29er tandem... the BB is mighty low (11.5in front, 11.2in rear)....
    Their original LosDos / MT1000-MT2000-MT3000 off-road tandems were also pretty low-slung: We had a '98 MT3000. What it lacked in ground clearance for the technical obstacles it made up for in handling. The lower center of gravity really made it easy to whip around on single track. Weakest link was the 9mm front axle on an otherwise pretty robust HeadShock Moto FR fork. Shoulda kept that one! I'm now thinking about snapping up one of the few remaining Street Tandems and setting it back up for cross country along the lines of our old MT3000 for some local trails that aren't as well suited for our Ventana.

  23. #48
    Tandem Vincitur Ritterview's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TandemGeek View Post
    - High-end RT1 in White @ $4,450 from Tandems East: BB30
    I was just thinking, if the Cannondale has a new frame with BB30, they will need to source a new eccentric. If Cannondale designs their own eccentric de novo, it will be interesting to see what they come up with. Given Cannondale's engineering/design capability, it might be really good. Hopefully they would have it available in a non-BB30 version as well.

  24. #49
    Gear Combo Guru Chris_W's Avatar
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    Did you ever try to adjust the EBB on the old Cannondale tandems? They generally got stuck and required some force to budge, so I wouldn't get too excited about them making another one. Fortunately, the Co-Motion model works extremely well.

  25. #50
    PMK
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    Quote Originally Posted by TandemGeek View Post
    Their original LosDos / MT1000-MT2000-MT3000 off-road tandems were also pretty low-slung: We had a '98 MT3000. What it lacked in ground clearance for the technical obstacles it made up for in handling. The lower center of gravity really made it easy to whip around on single track. Weakest link was the 9mm front axle on an otherwise pretty robust HeadShock Moto FR fork. Shoulda kept that one! I'm now thinking about snapping up one of the few remaining Street Tandems and setting it back up for cross country along the lines of our old MT3000 for some local trails that aren't as well suited for our Ventana.
    Interesting, but why? We loved our 98 MT3000. It was a great machine and a lot of that had to do solely with the headtube angle.

    Our Ventana, granted it is newer, is only slightly heavier, but sure is a lot more forgiving and faster.

    While Jeanne and I often "remember" that bike, we both agree the V is the machine to ride.

    In a flow diagram way...Ride Bike>Go Fast>Get Stupid>Say Bad Words>Ventana Saves Day>Captain States In Best Pee Wee Herman "I meant to do that"

    Honest TG, if your Ventana suspension is in need of a rebuild, it can make a huge difference.

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    And most important, someone special that enjoys them with me (except the KTM's)

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