Cycling and bicycle discussion forums. 
   Click here to join our community Log in to access your Control Panel  


Go Back   > >

Tandem Cycling A bicycle built for two. Want to find out more about this wonderful world of tandems? Check out this forum to talk with other tandem enthusiasts. Captains and stokers welcome!

User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 01-22-13, 11:06 PM   #1
jnbrown
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
jnbrown's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Bikes:
Posts: 969
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Bottle Cage Dilemma

When I first built our Calfee I installed two carbon cages. They both eventually broke I think in part due to forcing the bottle in from an angle. It seems that the cage mounting points on our Calfee are mounted higher up than they need to or should be but I am sure there is a story and reason behind that. Sometime ago I replaced the rear cage with an Arundel Sideloader. It seems to be working fine. In the mean time I decided to get Zipp cages for both the front and for my single. After using them for some time I have noticed that bottles (Camelback Chill) fit very loose and often rattle or sit at an angle. I decided to try an Arundel Dave O on my single and really like it. It is easy to get the bottle in and out, holds well, doesn't rattle and seems like it will last.
So I decided to get two more Dave O's and found a good deal at ProBikeKit in the UK. Well they shipped me the wrong ones and I had to ship them back to the UK and finally today I received the correct ones. Mounted one on my single on the seat tube and it works fine. Mounted the other on the front of the Calfee. Oops can't get the bottle in without forcing it at an angle and rubbing against the top tube. Turns out the Arundel sits about 1/2" higher than the Zipp, also it is more rigid and a tighter fit to the bottle. So now the options are go back to he Zipp and put up with the rattling, or put an Arundel Sideloader on the front as well. I am thinking the sideloader might be the best option since I have always been putting the bottle in at an angle anyway.
Anybody want to buy a Dave O cheap?

Did some more looking and it looks like the Arundel Trident might do the trick as the arms for the bottle are set much lower than the Dave O

Last edited by jnbrown; 01-22-13 at 11:21 PM.
jnbrown is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-23-13, 05:33 AM   #2
Chris_W
Gear Combo Guru
 
Chris_W's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Switzerland
Bikes: Spec' Tarmac (road), Ridley Fenix (commuter & fast tourer), Salsa Mamasita (MTB), CoMo Speedster (tandem), Surly Big Dummy (cargo), Airnimal (folder)
Posts: 2,241
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I've also found that many frame manufacturers put the bottle mounting bolts too high up. I think many manufacturers just place them at a standard distance from the BB for all frame sizes; so on my 52-54 cm frames, large bottles often don't fit well. On one bike, I've used some metal strapping mounted to the regular mounting points and then used the other holes in the strapping to mount the bottle holder - that works fine and is not too obvious unless someone looks real close. On my new carbon frame, I didn't want to use a work-around solution like that, so I bought some Arudel Mandible cages because they have two sets of holes to allow you to mount them lower down. As Arundel states, the Mandibles have a super-firm grip, maybe a bit too firm, but I don't know of any other options of a carbon cage with multiple mounting holes.

On our Co-Motion Speedster, both bottle mounting points for the stoker are on the lateral tube, and my stoker really didn't like the location of either. I therefore added some mounts from Specialized, see here (your local Spec' dealer probably has a bunch that were never installed on new bikes) - they are officially for 30.9mm seatposts, but if you're careful then they will bend out to fit around a 31.8mm tube, and once on they never move. She now has one bottle on the seat tube and one in the middle of the lateral tube, where Co-Motion should have put them from the beginning. For other options about mounting options, see the rest of the page that I linked to above.
Chris_W is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-23-13, 05:37 AM   #3
DubT
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Central Illinois
Bikes: Trek Speed Concept 9.9, 2011 Calfee Tetra Tandem
Posts: 1,037
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
We use 4 of the Arundel side loaders on our Calfee and are completely happy with them. S/S frame.
DubT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-23-13, 06:11 AM   #4
ReedCycle
Member
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Williamsburg VA
Bikes: 2010 Calfee Tetra Tandem
Posts: 34
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
We use the Arundel Mandible cages on our Calfee, which has a small/small frame. The Mandible has two sets of mounting holes, and they are mounted in the lowest position. Cages work fine, no problems getting the bottles in and out. We use Camelbak 24 oz. Podium bottles.
ReedCycle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-23-13, 08:34 AM   #5
Pic
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Earth
Bikes: Fat, Flat Bar, Road, Tandem, Triplet
Posts: 89
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
We purchased Specialized holders. In/out sideways. You may have an option.
Pic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-23-13, 11:06 AM   #6
ksisler
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Bikes:
Posts: 1,646
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by jnbrown View Post
When I first built our Calfee I installed two carbon cages. They both eventually broke I think in part due to forcing the bottle in from an angle. It seems that the cage mounting points on our Calfee are mounted higher up than they need to or should be but I am sure there is a story and reason behind that. Sometime ago I replaced the rear cage with an Arundel Sideloader. It seems to be working fine. In the mean time I decided to get Zipp cages for both the front and for my single. After using them for some time I have noticed that bottles (Camelback Chill) fit very loose and often rattle or sit at an angle. I decided to try an Arundel Dave O on my single and really like it. It is easy to get the bottle in and out, holds well, doesn't rattle and seems like it will last. So I decided to get two more Dave O's and found a good deal at ProBikeKit in the UK. Well they shipped me the wrong ones and I had to ship them back to the UK and finally today I received the correct ones. Mounted one on my single on the seat tube and it works fine. Mounted the other on the front of the Calfee. Oops can't get the bottle in without forcing it at an angle and rubbing against the top tube. Turns out the Arundel sits about 1/2" higher than the Zipp, also it is more rigid and a tighter fit to the bottle. So now the options are go back to he Zipp and put up with the rattling, or put an Arundel Sideloader on the front as well. I am thinking the sideloader might be the best option since I have always been putting the bottle in at an angle anyway. Anybody want to buy a Dave O cheap? Did some more looking and it looks like the Arundel Trident might do the trick as the arms for the bottle are set much lower than the Dave O
jnbrown; Any possibility of adapting the frame to put the bottle cages lower? At first thought, I was thinking you might be able to find or fab up a clamp on fixture to add a 5mm mount below the current two and just use the current lower one as the new top one... Other option might be to confer with the original builder to see if you could drill the frame and epoxy in a 5mm socket... I believe those are sold on one of the frame builder suppliers list for a buck or two each (maybe only intended for soldering into a frame tube, but should serve as a glue in well enough). But definately wouldn't do it if the builder is not agreeable to continuing the warranty after you do the mod. Of course if you live close enough, you could perhaps drop in and have them do the mod. ALthough it might look cheesy, maybe a handlebar mounted bottle cage (I put one on a few of my bikes out of necessity and wouldn't rank them as stylish...). Hope that helps /K
ksisler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-23-13, 12:58 PM   #7
twocicle
Clipless in Coeur d'Alene
 
twocicle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Coeur d'Alene, Idaho
Bikes: Calfee Tetra Tandem, Specialized Tarmac SL4 S-Works, other misc Road & MTB singles
Posts: 1,593
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Regarding cage height adjustment:

Google: "shimano 7970 di2 cage adapter". The adapter will allow you to adjust the height of your cages. This adapter is similar to what Tandemgeek manufactured on his own:

I installed and tested this on our Calfee, but it would work on just about any post or screwhole setup. All worked fine but I ended up with a different final solution...

Switching from tall Polar to slightly shorter 22oz Camelback bottles solved our clearance access issues without the need to resort to using the Di2 brackets noted above (more items for my parts bin).

Regarding Sideloader cages:

I found these cages work great most anywhere, except for backward facing/leaning locations (ie: back of captain's seatpost). For the latter, we had constant problems with the Camelback bottles ejecting so I changed that one to the Lezyne integrated bottle/pump cage which securely grips our Camelback bottles plus holds our Lezyne pump.

For a before and after view, see: http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread...1#post14467249
Attached Images
File Type: jpg cage adapter.jpg (4.8 KB, 9 views)

Last edited by twocicle; 01-28-13 at 09:49 AM.
twocicle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-23-13, 01:29 PM   #8
akexpress
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Anchorage, Ak
Bikes: Calfee Tetra tandem, Ventana ECDM 26, Ventana ECDM 29r, Orbea Orca, Santa Cruz Carbon 5010
Posts: 469
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by ksisler View Post
jnbrown; Any possibility of adapting the frame to put the bottle cages lower? At first thought, I was thinking you might be able to find or fab up a clamp on fixture to add a 5mm mount below the current two and just use the current lower one as the new top one... Other option might be to confer with the original builder to see if you could drill the frame and epoxy in a 5mm socket... I believe those are sold on one of the frame builder suppliers list for a buck or two each (maybe only intended for soldering into a frame tube, but should serve as a glue in well enough). But definately wouldn't do it if the builder is not agreeable to continuing the warranty after you do the mod. Of course if you live close enough, you could perhaps drop in and have them do the mod. ALthough it might look cheesy, maybe a handlebar mounted bottle cage (I put one on a few of my bikes out of necessity and wouldn't rank them as stylish...). Hope that helps /K
Calfee doesn't use traditional cage mount sockets but instead uses an external stud and nut. The stud is secured with a carbon disc that is bonded to the frame. We use the classic Arundel Dave O cages painted to match our frame and Camelback bottles on a Small/Small frame without difficulty although my lovely stoker usually hands me the bottles on climbs so I don't fumble.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg image001.jpg (46.7 KB, 47 views)

Last edited by akexpress; 01-23-13 at 01:48 PM. Reason: added pic and content
akexpress is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-13, 03:44 PM   #9
ksisler
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Bikes:
Posts: 1,646
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by akexpress View Post
Calfee doesn't use traditional cage mount sockets but instead uses an external stud and nut. The stud is secured with a carbon disc that is bonded to the frame. We use the classic Arundel Dave O cages painted to match our frame and Camelback bottles on a Small/Small frame without difficulty although my lovely stoker usually hands me the bottles on climbs so I don't fumble.
Huh! I have ridden a couple and never notice that. Thanks for clarifying.

So mod'ing one should clearly involve a trip back to the maker!
ksisler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-13, 07:59 PM   #10
jnbrown
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
jnbrown's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Bikes:
Posts: 969
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by akexpress View Post
Calfee doesn't use traditional cage mount sockets but instead uses an external stud and nut. The stud is secured with a carbon disc that is bonded to the frame. We use the classic Arundel Dave O cages painted to match our frame and Camelback bottles on a Small/Small frame without difficulty although my lovely stoker usually hands me the bottles on climbs so I don't fumble.
We also have a small / small frame and the Dave O doesn't work for me.
I wonder if your mounts are in a different location or you are just used to forcing the bottle in.
I think with the first cage that is what I did and why it broke. The Zipp cage worked because it mounts lower and is really flimsy so it was easy to get the bottle in / out. I tried Mandible cages on my single once and did not like them because the grip on the bottle was too tight.
jnbrown is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-13-13, 05:23 AM   #11
Mount Skidmore
Newbie
 
Join Date: May 2013
Bikes:
Posts: 2
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Hey Guys,

My brother was having a similar problem on a Scott Scale 29er (size large) - wanted to carry a bigger bottle but the built in cage mounting position was too high so any bottle bigger 600ml wouldn't fit!

So we made this bottle cage adapter to solve the problem -> http://mountskidmore.com.au

There's now a litre bottle in there so It's working well for us and should probably do the trick for you also.
Mount Skidmore is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-23-13, 12:42 PM   #12
VaultGuru
Senior Member
 
VaultGuru's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Fair Oaks,CA
Bikes: Kestrel RT1000 & Calfee Tandem
Posts: 733
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
We have used Profile cages for about 6 years. They flex laterally enough that we don't have a problem getting water bottles in and out. Our Calfee is a large/medium. I use the big water bottles and my wife uses the standard size bottles.
VaultGuru is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 05:22 PM.