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Tandem Cycling A bicycle built for two. Want to find out more about this wonderful world of tandems? Check out this forum to talk with other tandem enthusiasts. Captains and stokers welcome!

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Old 02-18-13, 08:35 PM   #1
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Sneak Peek: Two-tone, Calfee Time Trial Tandem up on FB

Calfee Designs has posted 22 photos of the completed time trial tandem that was captured in some photos on another thread here at BF. I don't think you have to be a subscriber to Facebook to see it, but I could be wrong about that:

https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?...3915144&type=1

It's one bad-ass looking machine:

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Old 02-18-13, 08:39 PM   #2
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That stoker compartment is as long as mine, and I'm a 6'2" stoker with a slightly long torso.
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Old 02-18-13, 09:20 PM   #3
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What kind of saddles are mounted?
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Old 02-19-13, 05:18 AM   #4
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Yes TG, one BA looking machine...with a definite purpose.

I do wonder why they didn't somehow stuff an all right side drive in there. Regardless, it is wicked looking and the faux lugs are a very nice touch.

PK
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Old 02-19-13, 07:41 AM   #5
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I do wonder why they didn't somehow stuff an all right side drive in there. PK
The article says the shifting system is Di2. I assume that knocks a right side drive out of contention. Also of note is that it is the Ultegra Di2, not DA. Hmm.
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Old 02-19-13, 08:03 AM   #6
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1)
I wonder if they've done wind tunnel testing with it.

The longer stoker compartment lets the stoker get in the same position as a single TT bike, but it increases the space between the 2 riders. I'd like to see how it compares in a wind tunnel to a set up where the stoker is closer to the captain, with the stokers hands and arms further up.

2)I'm assuming the S&S couplers are there in part so that you can shorten the stoker compartment to a convetional road tandem. It appears that would just be a matter of interchanging 2 tubes.

3) I wonder what the rear spacing is. I'm assumming 130mm. HED doesn't make a disc for tandems, and they don't recommend their discs be used on tandems. (likely for warranty and products liability issues. ) It doesn't look like the disc has been modified (i.e. different axles and spacers) so I'm thinking 130 mm spacing.

If the wind tunnel tests back it up, I'd seriously consider getting one for Masters Nationals next year.
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Old 02-19-13, 08:55 AM   #7
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1)
I wonder if they've done wind tunnel testing with it.

The longer stoker compartment lets the stoker get in the same position as a single TT bike, but it increases the space between the 2 riders. I'd like to see how it compares in a wind tunnel to a set up where the stoker is closer to the captain, with the stokers hands and arms further up.

2)I'm assuming the S&S couplers are there in part so that you can shorten the stoker compartment to a convetional road tandem. It appears that would just be a matter of interchanging 2 tubes.

3) I wonder what the rear spacing is. I'm assumming 130mm. HED doesn't make a disc for tandems, and they don't recommend their discs be used on tandems. (likely for warranty and products liability issues. ) It doesn't look like the disc has been modified (i.e. different axles and spacers) so I'm thinking 130 mm spacing.

If the wind tunnel tests back it up, I'd seriously consider getting one for Masters Nationals next year.
I suspect that the angled top tube would make shortening the tandem more difficult. Due to a change in top tube angles with a shorter top tube the SS coupler on the substitute top tube would have to be bonded at an odd angle in the tube. Or the bike could be designed as the one below with a parallel top tube to eliminate that problem.



The position with the stoker low on elbow pads and grasping the captain's seatpost along with the possibility of the stoker's helmet and forearms touching the captain appears to me to allow smoother air flow.

The Austrian national team may have done wind tunnel testing on their 4000 meter mens' pursuit tandem. They have the large stoker touching the captain as much as possible.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ru-HCdVtfd4


Wind tunnel results are sometimes counterintuitive. Let us know if you can find out an answer on that.

Last edited by waynesulak; 02-19-13 at 09:10 AM.
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Old 02-19-13, 01:12 PM   #8
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I am inclined to think that a short bike like the Australian pursuit team used in the above link is faster, but would certainly like to hear from anyone that has tested a long bike that knows the answer. We did a few coast down tests once but they were not that conclusive. Need to have another go at it sometime. I just had the stoker slide off the back of her seat so she could fit down behind me. The few runs we did were a bit slower than our normal position. Need more runs and less wind and traffic to get a better idea though.
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Old 02-19-13, 03:29 PM   #9
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I guess for a "fit for purpose" racing machine, we could forgive its bland appearance and lack of aesthetic appeal as a tandem. Their regular bikes are more attractive, relatively speaking. I would bet it is bullet fast with the right crew. My old knees wouldn't even deserve a test drive.... /K
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Old 02-19-13, 09:16 PM   #10
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The article says the shifting system is Di2. I assume that knocks a right side drive out of contention. Also of note is that it is the Ultegra Di2, not DA. Hmm.
Not a surprise. Everyone I know of who's used both say the current Ultegra Di2 shifts better than the current DA. That may change when the new DA comes out.
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Old 02-19-13, 09:21 PM   #11
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...My old knees wouldn't even deserve a test drive.... /K
Ahhh come on. I bet you'd just love to take that think for a spin around the track.
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Old 02-19-13, 11:45 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by waynesulak View Post
The position with the stoker low on elbow pads and grasping the captain's seatpost along with the possibility of the stoker's helmet and forearms touching the captain appears to me to allow smoother air flow.

The Austrian national team may have done wind tunnel testing on their 4000 meter mens' pursuit tandem. They have the large stoker touching the captain as much as possible.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ru-HCdVtfd4


Wind tunnel results are sometimes counterintuitive. Let us know if you can find out an answer on that.
The saddles on this TT tandem would allow the stoker to grasp more than the captain's seatpost :O
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Old 02-20-13, 05:29 AM   #13
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I guess for a "fit for purpose" racing machine, we could forgive its bland appearance and lack of aesthetic appeal as a tandem. Their regular bikes are more attractive, relatively speaking. I would bet it is bullet fast with the right crew. My old knees wouldn't even deserve a test drive.... /K
It has been said that beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I think the bike is absolutely awesome looking, absolutely NOT bland looking. Different strokes for different folks!

Wayne
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Old 02-20-13, 07:17 AM   #14
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Not a surprise. Everyone I know of who's used both say the current Ultegra Di2 shifts better than the current DA. That may change when the new DA comes out.
Interesting. Every review I have been read about DA-Di2 has said it was the best shifting ever, perfect under power etc etc. How can Ultegra now be better than that? Unless the reviews were overstating it a bit that is.

I am sure DA will improve. Shimano usually keeps refining things until they get it working really well. It took a while but they finally got the cables under the bar tape!
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Old 02-20-13, 09:09 AM   #15
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Interesting. Every review I have been read about DA-Di2 has said it was the best shifting ever, perfect under power etc etc. How can Ultegra now be better than that? Unless the reviews were overstating it a bit that is.

I am sure DA will improve. Shimano usually keeps refining things until they get it working really well. It took a while but they finally got the cables under the bar tape!
I believe that there is a new DA set to be released. I know of several people who've picked the Ultegra over DA. In fact a good friend of mine just put Ultegra on his new BMC time machine. He said he was going to switch to the new DA later.
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Old 02-20-13, 12:00 PM   #16
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and the faux lugs are a very nice touch.

PK
Maybe dumb question, but do we know that they are "faux"?
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Old 02-20-13, 12:51 PM   #17
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Maybe dumb question, but do we know that they are "faux"?
They are no more "faux" than any welded metal lug. All Dragonflys have external lugs, these are simply sculpted instead of having straightcut ends.

I just don't get some of the setup choices. Like opting for the Lightning cranks but not doing same-side drive. With the extra long bottom and top tubes, using a crossover setup as they have done may flex this frame like a noodle. Same-side would be a better choice and feasible with these cranks.

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Old 02-20-13, 01:33 PM   #18
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They are no more "faux" than any welded metal lug. All Dragonflys have external lugs, these are simply sculpted instead of having straightcut ends.
What I meant was that I thought Calfee was known for their laid-up joints. For sure these look like lugs. When PMK, above, stated they were "faux lugs", that sounded like somehow he thought they were laid-up, then shaped to look like lugs. Certainly he couldn't have meant that since they aren't metal they can't be true lugs - that would be a restricted meaning of lug, IMO.
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Old 02-20-13, 02:59 PM   #19
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Like opting for the Lightning cranks but not doing same-side drive. With the extra long bottom and top tubes, using a crossover setup as they have done may flex this frame like a noodle. Same-side would be a better choice and feasible with these cranks.
Again, the derailleur system is Di2 which, as I understand it, has a limited throw. That's why it's only available as a double. How are you going to do same-side with that limitation? If you put in a long enough bb axle to accommodate a triple, the derailleur can't reach the outer ring.

Am I missing something?
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Old 02-20-13, 03:06 PM   #20
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Again, the derailleur system is Di2 which, as I understand it, has a limited throw. That's why it's only available as a double. How are you going to do same-side with that limitation?

Am I missing something?
Put the timing chain on the outside?
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Old 02-20-13, 03:14 PM   #21
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Put the timing chain on the outside?
That is how our bike is. It works well. Or Calfee could make the chainstay by the BB have clearance for an extra inside chainring like a Paketa V2R.
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Old 02-20-13, 05:18 PM   #22
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That is how our bike is. It works well. Or Calfee could make the chainstay by the BB have clearance for an extra inside chainring like a Paketa V2R.
This reply is *worthless* without a picture! Seriously, I'd love to see some pics of how they did that!
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Old 02-20-13, 06:12 PM   #23
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I just made some spacers and extra long tube nuts and mounted an extra 53t chainring between the regular big ring and the crankarm. It just fits. Clearances may vary between types/models of cranksets. Had to use a 53t as the crankarm tapers in so there would be insufficient clearance for a chainring much smaller than this.
Of coarse this is just a lowly C'dale but it is what it is.
BTW I would be surprised if any of the other bikes on this thread are any more rigid than this. They are of coarse lighter though.

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Old 02-20-13, 07:01 PM   #24
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BTW I would be surprised if any of the other bikes on this thread are any more rigid than this...
It probably doesn't help that you're running those HED3 wheels. There isn't a stiffer wheel made that I know of.
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Old 02-20-13, 07:15 PM   #25
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Pretty cool, Dean! No triple axle necessary, no altering the Q-factor, nothing. This probably would work even on a Di2 system.

Any down side at all with it?
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