Cycling and bicycle discussion forums. 
   Click here to join our community Log in to access your Control Panel  


Go Back   > >

Tandem Cycling A bicycle built for two. Want to find out more about this wonderful world of tandems? Check out this forum to talk with other tandem enthusiasts. Captains and stokers welcome!

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 03-12-13, 09:51 PM   #51
Carbonfiberboy 
just another gosling
 
Carbonfiberboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Everett, WA
Bikes: CoMo Speedster 2003, Trek 5200, CAAD 9, Fred 2004
Posts: 10,993
Quote:
Originally Posted by Homeyba View Post
Reasonable cost is relative. The Deep V's are 30mm which isn't a particularly deep dish wheel. I wouldn't think that they are super fast wheels. My Topolino wheels are 30mm and are noticeably slower than my Zipp 404 wheelset. To be honest, I really don't know of a really cheap solution for you.
No, certainly not super fast. Probably a little faster than box rims. We are so old now that we probably don't have too many more years of fast riding left, so a big investment doesn't make good sense. Not much amortization time. That was my interest in the aerobars. I have them and know how to use them, and they're certainly the cheapest way to go faster on the flat, right now.

Edit: I go through rims about 1 a year because of riding conditions here. I could build up my next wheel with CX Ray Sapim spokes. Over DT Competition that should build up for about $50 or so extra/wheel. Thoughts?

Last edited by Carbonfiberboy; 03-12-13 at 10:07 PM.
Carbonfiberboy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-13-13, 09:49 AM   #52
WNY tandem
Senior Member
 
WNY tandem's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Rochester, NY
Bikes: Co-Motion Speedster, His & Her Trek Madone singles, Specialized Rockhopper
Posts: 186
I use the Airstyke aero bars because of the flip up arm rests. I use the tops of my bars a lot and I didn't want to lose that hand position by adding static arm rests.

WNY tandem is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-17-13, 05:28 PM   #53
act0fgod
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Korea
Bikes: Specialized Tarmac Pro, Canonndale RT1000, Burley Samba, BikeFriday Two'sDay
Posts: 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by merlinextraligh View Post
We use Oval Concepts:


Merlin could you post a picture of the stokers settup. My wife has said for some time now that she wants aero bars to lean on for the longer rides. How is her face not in your back/butt.
act0fgod is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-17-13, 09:34 PM   #54
Carbonfiberboy 
just another gosling
 
Carbonfiberboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Everett, WA
Bikes: CoMo Speedster 2003, Trek 5200, CAAD 9, Fred 2004
Posts: 10,993
Many words by us earlier in this thread. Here's the result:



These are parking lot photos taken before today's group ride. First photo is us down in aero position on the Syntace C2 clip-ons. Today's ride and this photo say the aerobars should be rotated up a couple of degrees. Stoker is holding the ends of her bullhorns and resting her wrists on the straight part right behind the ends. Second photo is of us in "up and slow" mode. Captain's 17 stem is slammed. Stoker's stock CoMo stoker stem has had 1.5" cut off of it, now 125mm.

We rocked today. Very comfortable and noticeably faster. We did use the aerobars some, to bridge up, pull the group upwind on some sections, and get away on some sections. The tactic of getting on the aerobars and attacking on descents and tandem friendly sections worked very well. We were able to stay with the group much better when the road tilted back up and finished with a few of the fastest singles. Not bad for a couple of fat old folks.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg aerobars.jpg (93.9 KB, 25 views)
File Type: jpg shorter_stoker_stem.jpg (96.0 KB, 20 views)
Carbonfiberboy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-17-13, 10:34 PM   #55
uspspro
Tandem Mountain Climber
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: San Mateo, CA
Bikes: Calfee Tandem, Custom CAAD9 BB30, 90 Santana Arriva Tandem, 02 CAAD4 errand bike, 87 Cannondale "Black Lightning"
Posts: 4,101
I like my Vision bars a lot. I tried several sets before I settled on these. I swap in a -17 degree stem when I use these, vs my normal -6 degree.

My wife usually just gets in the drops to get aero, or uses the hoods with a deeper elbow bend... though none of the pictures show this.... hmmmmm





uspspro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-13, 01:37 AM   #56
Chris_W
Gear Combo Guru
 
Chris_W's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Switzerland
Bikes: Spec' Tarmac (road), Ridley Fenix (commuter & fast tourer), Salsa Mamasita (MTB), CoMo Speedster (tandem), Surly Big Dummy (cargo), Airnimal (folder)
Posts: 2,241
Quote:
Originally Posted by WNY tandem View Post
I use the Airstyke aero bars because of the flip up arm rests. I use the tops of my bars a lot and I didn't want to lose that hand position by adding static arm rests.
Another option with flip-up arm pads is the models by 3T, which I like a lot. The Profile Design model shown above has springs to automatically flip the bars up, and I've found that the springs break after not that much use. The 3T model just has two positions that you manually put the pads in - either angled up or down on the bars, and they stay in that position - I like that when I take one arm off of the bars to shift gears or something then the pad doesn't automatically spring back up as it does on the Profile Designs model.
Chris_W is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-13, 11:12 AM   #57
Carbonfiberboy 
just another gosling
 
Carbonfiberboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Everett, WA
Bikes: CoMo Speedster 2003, Trek 5200, CAAD 9, Fred 2004
Posts: 10,993
Quote:
Originally Posted by uspspro View Post
I like my Vision bars a lot. I tried several sets before I settled on these. I swap in a -17 degree stem when I use these, vs my normal -6 degree.

My wife usually just gets in the drops to get aero, or uses the hoods with a deeper elbow bend... though none of the pictures show this.... hmmmmm
Your position looks great, but your stoker looks like she could be more stretched out without interfering with your legs. Might make more back angle less stressful for her. Can't really tell from these photos, though.
Carbonfiberboy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-13, 12:41 PM   #58
uspspro
Tandem Mountain Climber
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: San Mateo, CA
Bikes: Calfee Tandem, Custom CAAD9 BB30, 90 Santana Arriva Tandem, 02 CAAD4 errand bike, 87 Cannondale "Black Lightning"
Posts: 4,101
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carbonfiberboy View Post
Your position looks great, but your stoker looks like she could be more stretched out without interfering with your legs. Might make more back angle less stressful for her. Can't really tell from these photos, though.
She's been to a professional fitting on the tandem.

The slightly head-on perspective does hide the length of the stroker cockpit.

She has a bit of saddle-to-bar drop and good compartment length. She can definitely ride for a good amount of time at a lower position. She just tends to straighten out when she gets tired. - These pics were from our 33.5 hour 2-tandem team Hoodoo 500 (520 mile) ultra in 2011.
uspspro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-13, 04:14 PM   #59
moonwalker
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Texas
Bikes: Fandango DC-9 Mtb Tandem,Co-Motion Supremo,Trek T-1000 tandem, Specialized Allez Elite, Dolce,
Posts: 127
You guys have some great pics while in action on the tandem above and on other threads. Wish I knew how you did it. Our ride photos suck!
moonwalker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-13, 12:27 PM   #60
merlinextraligh
pan y agua
 
merlinextraligh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Jacksonville
Bikes: Wilier Zero 7; Merlin Extralight; Co-Motion Robusta; Schwinn Paramount; Motobecane Phantom Cross; Cervelo P2; Motebecane Ti Fly 29er; Calfee Dragonfly Tandem
Posts: 29,081
Quote:
Originally Posted by act0fgod View Post
Merlin could you post a picture of the stokers settup. My wife has said for some time now that she wants aero bars to lean on for the longer rides. How is her face not in your back/butt.


They're a set of profile by design aero bars with the extensions cut off short.

Rather than putting her hands on the extensions, she holds onto my seatpost.

The top of her helmet is right at my low back. Depending on how far I'm scooted forward on my saddle, and she on hers, she can rest her helmet on my back.

It makes for a low and narrow position.

In very unscientific testing, it appears to be worth close to 1/2mph versus her sitting up on the bull horns.
__________________
You could fall off a cliff and die.
You could get lost and die.
You could hit a tree and die.
OR YOU COULD STAY HOME AND FALL OFF THE COUCH AND DIE.
merlinextraligh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-13, 12:42 PM   #61
Onegun
Oldie, just not here!
 
Onegun's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Shady Hills, Fl.
Bikes: 2005 Trek T2000 tandem, 2003 Burly Tosa Tandem, 6 singles including 2 fixies
Posts: 983
Merlin, do they interfere with her standing on a climb?
__________________
BICYCLE - [bahy-si-kuhl] - Noun :> A medical device used to correct the common geriatric condition of OFS, (Old, Fat & Slow), in a manner that does not induce brain-decaying boredom like walking or running.

2005 Trek T2000 Tandem, 2003 Burley Tosa Tandem, Pacific Dualie beater tandem, and 6 singles including 2 fixies.

TampaBayCycling.com - A LOCAL Cycling Forum
The Florida Panthers Tandem Club
Onegun is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-13, 12:50 PM   #62
merlinextraligh
pan y agua
 
merlinextraligh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Jacksonville
Bikes: Wilier Zero 7; Merlin Extralight; Co-Motion Robusta; Schwinn Paramount; Motobecane Phantom Cross; Cervelo P2; Motebecane Ti Fly 29er; Calfee Dragonfly Tandem
Posts: 29,081
^They do. She has to stand rather awkwardly to avoid bashing her knees.

So we just use them for TT's and training for TT's.

She can get the same position, without the pads by resting her forearms on the bars and grabbing the seatpost, but it's not as comfortable for sustained periods. When we need to be more aero at critical points, she'll ride that way.
__________________
You could fall off a cliff and die.
You could get lost and die.
You could hit a tree and die.
OR YOU COULD STAY HOME AND FALL OFF THE COUCH AND DIE.
merlinextraligh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-03-13, 08:26 AM   #63
Carbonfiberboy 
just another gosling
 
Carbonfiberboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Everett, WA
Bikes: CoMo Speedster 2003, Trek 5200, CAAD 9, Fred 2004
Posts: 10,993
Having now used the aerobars and more aero stoker position on a number of local hilly rides, we can say that we are definitely faster. We are averaging about .7 mph faster over known hilly courses. Free speed, and lots of it. We have a few advantages. Our local courses have short hills, mostly 50'-500' with lots of rollers. I've used aerobars for many years. Stoker has a strong core with 60 years of horse riding and 30 years in the gym.
Carbonfiberboy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-04-13, 12:20 AM   #64
Turbotandem
Senior Member
 
Turbotandem's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Boulder, CO
Bikes: Paketa V2r di2, C-Dale MT 3000, Teesdale, 1963 Huffy Daisey
Posts: 205
In most events / races we participate, areo bars are not allowed. That would include most recreational centuries as well as races like tour de park city 157mi, Cochise Classic 165mi, LoToJa 204 mi. Really any sactioned race does not allow them. Many double centuries and edurance racing like hoodoo or furnace creek do allow them, but my carbon bars are not reinforced to take the areo bar clamping, although there are some that are.

What I do is what many racers practice if they are leading a peloton or in a break away: I ride with my forearms on the tops of the bars. I have placed a 1" x 3" x 2mm peice of bar phat from specialized under the bar tape right where I rest which is enough to keep my fore arms comfortable except on the worst roads, and also gives a measure of "grip" between my arm and the bar. It took a month or two to get comfortable steering and I don't do this on busy roads or cross winds. And Mrs Turbo know to warn me of movements like driking. But I like the relief of the position and can ride like that for 30 minutes at a time no problem.

In a cross wind I'll often put one forearm down and rest some weight on it and hold the other hand on the lower drop with a deeply bent elbow. With the one forearm supporting me it's easier to hold a low position than both arms deeply bent in the drops.

Here are three photos, taken with the bike in my trainer (the blue tape and wires are the computrainer rigging)
1) medium
2) low like in a bad head wind
3) the bike without me on it to see the seat to bar heights
Attached Images
File Type: jpg medium.jpg (91.8 KB, 22 views)
File Type: jpg Low.jpg (93.5 KB, 19 views)
File Type: jpg tandem no rider.jpg (98.5 KB, 20 views)
Turbotandem is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-04-13, 09:32 AM   #65
twocicle
Clipless in Coeur d'Alene
 
twocicle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Coeur d'Alene, Idaho
Bikes: Calfee Tetra Tandem, Specialized Tarmac SL4 S-Works, other misc Road & MTB singles
Posts: 1,590
^^^ I call it the "Euro tuck" because I first saw Euro pro racers like Jens Voigt use it and thought - hey why not?

I find it is a little safer to do if you have cables to grab such as with the Shimano 9spd brifters with the derailleur cables exiting the side of the shifters. I still have these shifters on my single and zip tie the cables together in the middle where they cross for that very purpose - it gives a little more stability when grabbing hold. It still seems a sketchy position and so I only use that position on smooth, straight roads. Our tandem shifters do not have those cables exposed so any temptation to try in on a tandem is gone... good thing too as IMO is not a very safe position to use at the best of times.

Last edited by twocicle; 04-04-13 at 09:37 AM.
twocicle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-04-13, 10:22 AM   #66
diabloridr
Senior Member
 
diabloridr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Central Coast, California, USA
Bikes: Co-Motion Speedster, Calfee Dragonfly, Ancient Sun Fixie, Trek 5900, Trek 9800
Posts: 322
Quote:
Originally Posted by Turbotandem View Post
What I do is what many racers practice if they are leading a peloton or in a break away: I ride with my forearms on the tops of the bars. I have placed a 1" x 3" x 2mm peice of bar phat from specialized under the bar tape right where I rest which is enough to keep my fore arms comfortable except on the worst roads, and also gives a measure of "grip" between my arm and the bar. It took a month or two to get comfortable steering and I don't do this on busy roads or cross winds. And Mrs Turbo know to warn me of movements like driking. But I like the relief of the position and can ride like that for 30 minutes at a time no problem.

In a cross wind I'll often put one forearm down and rest some weight on it and hold the other hand on the lower drop with a deeply bent elbow. With the one forearm supporting me it's easier to hold a low position than both arms deeply bent in the drops.
+1 to that, although the Cinelli cork tape we use gives me enough grip as-is.

I'll warn beloved stoker when I'm going to aero on the tandem - that's her cue to pedal smooth and don't do anything to disturb da Force.

We need good pavement, consistent wind, and flat terrain to use this approach.
diabloridr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-04-13, 12:37 PM   #67
Carbonfiberboy 
just another gosling
 
Carbonfiberboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Everett, WA
Bikes: CoMo Speedster 2003, Trek 5200, CAAD 9, Fred 2004
Posts: 10,993
We don't race and there are no local events that forbid aerobars. If we were interested in PBP, we'd have to train without them, but uh no, we aren't.

Mild warning to those who lack the experience of the above. One death in the TdF from that. OK if you're alone. I saw a team captain in the Tour of Qatar come to the front to tell his guy not to pull like that. We hit a totally unexpected pothole on Saturday, hidden in mottled light. Luckily we were doing a good 35 while tucked and I pump my tires, so we just thumped right over it and didn't pinch flat. I'm a bit of a bug about bar grip. I always wrap my thumbs and hook my little finger behind the bar when on the hoods.
Carbonfiberboy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-04-13, 12:55 PM   #68
merlinextraligh
pan y agua
 
merlinextraligh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Jacksonville
Bikes: Wilier Zero 7; Merlin Extralight; Co-Motion Robusta; Schwinn Paramount; Motobecane Phantom Cross; Cervelo P2; Motebecane Ti Fly 29er; Calfee Dragonfly Tandem
Posts: 29,081
Quote:
Originally Posted by twocicle View Post
^^^ I call it the "Euro tuck" because I first saw Euro pro racers like Jens Voigt use it and thought - hey why not?

.
Also referred to as IAB (invisible aero bars)
__________________
You could fall off a cliff and die.
You could get lost and die.
You could hit a tree and die.
OR YOU COULD STAY HOME AND FALL OFF THE COUCH AND DIE.
merlinextraligh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-04-13, 12:59 PM   #69
twocicle
Clipless in Coeur d'Alene
 
twocicle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Coeur d'Alene, Idaho
Bikes: Calfee Tetra Tandem, Specialized Tarmac SL4 S-Works, other misc Road & MTB singles
Posts: 1,590
Either way, captaining a tandem with only forearm steering and no hand grips is a sure Darwin Award winner.
twocicle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-04-13, 01:01 PM   #70
merlinextraligh
pan y agua
 
merlinextraligh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Jacksonville
Bikes: Wilier Zero 7; Merlin Extralight; Co-Motion Robusta; Schwinn Paramount; Motobecane Phantom Cross; Cervelo P2; Motebecane Ti Fly 29er; Calfee Dragonfly Tandem
Posts: 29,081
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carbonfiberboy View Post
Mild warning to those who lack the experience of the above. One death in the TdF from that.
I don't think so.

Francisco Cepeda died descending the Galibier in 1935, pretty sure he wasn't riding like that.

Fabio Casrtelli died descending in the Pyranees in 1996. I'm sure he wasn't.

I don't believe any other rider has died in a crash in the TDF.

(Tom Simpson died climbing Ventoux, but it wasn't a crash)
__________________
You could fall off a cliff and die.
You could get lost and die.
You could hit a tree and die.
OR YOU COULD STAY HOME AND FALL OFF THE COUCH AND DIE.
merlinextraligh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-04-13, 01:14 PM   #71
merlinextraligh
pan y agua
 
merlinextraligh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Jacksonville
Bikes: Wilier Zero 7; Merlin Extralight; Co-Motion Robusta; Schwinn Paramount; Motobecane Phantom Cross; Cervelo P2; Motebecane Ti Fly 29er; Calfee Dragonfly Tandem
Posts: 29,081
Quote:
Originally Posted by twocicle View Post
Either way, captaining a tandem with only forearm steering and no hand grips is a sure Darwin Award winner.
Most tandem teams tend to be a bit older, well into, or past their reproductive years, and have likely procreated.

Thus at best eligible for honorable mention, but not the award itself.
__________________
You could fall off a cliff and die.
You could get lost and die.
You could hit a tree and die.
OR YOU COULD STAY HOME AND FALL OFF THE COUCH AND DIE.
merlinextraligh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-04-13, 02:45 PM   #72
Turbotandem
Senior Member
 
Turbotandem's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Boulder, CO
Bikes: Paketa V2r di2, C-Dale MT 3000, Teesdale, 1963 Huffy Daisey
Posts: 205
I like the "invisible aero bar" moniker and "euro tuck".

I agree if events allowed earo bars it's more stable to have them than invisble bars. There's a neat aero bar that mounts to the stem face plate that might be an option for carbon bar bikes that arn't rated for areo clamping.


I do feel more stable on the tandem euro tuck than on my single, just as postings are saying of aero bars. IMHO the darwin award goes to those teams that take their decents crazy fast. A lot more lives are being risked going thru a corner too hot, than in a euro tuck. I'll take my decents under 35, and come out ahead on the risk profile.
Turbotandem is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-04-13, 05:57 PM   #73
Dean V
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Bikes:
Posts: 1,075
Depends what you call crazy fast I guess. Trying to keep with a group of singles I find we quite often need to take advantage of superior downhill speed to catch up after the uphill. Doesn't mean that you disengage your brain and go for it, but if the road is suitable the speed will certainly be well over 35mph.
Dean V is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-13, 06:04 AM   #74
merlinextraligh
pan y agua
 
merlinextraligh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Jacksonville
Bikes: Wilier Zero 7; Merlin Extralight; Co-Motion Robusta; Schwinn Paramount; Motobecane Phantom Cross; Cervelo P2; Motebecane Ti Fly 29er; Calfee Dragonfly Tandem
Posts: 29,081
We hit 65mph in Everest Challenge.

Masters Nationals, we attacked off the front at 55mph.

We typically don't descend nearly that fast in non race situations.

You can descend very fast and still be in control.

Key for turns, is just like a race car, slow in, fast out.

Of course, bad stuff can happen at 65mph, but that's bike racing.
__________________
You could fall off a cliff and die.
You could get lost and die.
You could hit a tree and die.
OR YOU COULD STAY HOME AND FALL OFF THE COUCH AND DIE.
merlinextraligh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-13, 09:14 AM   #75
Turbotandem
Senior Member
 
Turbotandem's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Boulder, CO
Bikes: Paketa V2r di2, C-Dale MT 3000, Teesdale, 1963 Huffy Daisey
Posts: 205
As have we hit 65 in the Colorado thin air on a good straight away. And on the right kind of downhil of course the tandem passes singles. But on winding decents, not for me. I'm just saying, a euro tuck seems no more risky than many other things teams do on their tandem. 65mph or riding hot thru corners is more deserving a Darwin Award than riding 20mph resting on your forearms / Euro tuck.
Turbotandem is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 08:51 PM.