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Thread: Aero Bars

  1. #51
    just another gosling Carbonfiberboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Homeyba View Post
    Reasonable cost is relative. The Deep V's are 30mm which isn't a particularly deep dish wheel. I wouldn't think that they are super fast wheels. My Topolino wheels are 30mm and are noticeably slower than my Zipp 404 wheelset. To be honest, I really don't know of a really cheap solution for you.
    No, certainly not super fast. Probably a little faster than box rims. We are so old now that we probably don't have too many more years of fast riding left, so a big investment doesn't make good sense. Not much amortization time. That was my interest in the aerobars. I have them and know how to use them, and they're certainly the cheapest way to go faster on the flat, right now.

    Edit: I go through rims about 1 a year because of riding conditions here. I could build up my next wheel with CX Ray Sapim spokes. Over DT Competition that should build up for about $50 or so extra/wheel. Thoughts?
    Last edited by Carbonfiberboy; 03-12-13 at 11:07 PM.

  2. #52
    Senior Member WNY tandem's Avatar
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    I use the Airstyke aero bars because of the flip up arm rests. I use the tops of my bars a lot and I didn't want to lose that hand position by adding static arm rests.


  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by merlinextraligh View Post
    We use Oval Concepts:


    Merlin could you post a picture of the stokers settup. My wife has said for some time now that she wants aero bars to lean on for the longer rides. How is her face not in your back/butt.

  4. #54
    just another gosling Carbonfiberboy's Avatar
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    Many words by us earlier in this thread. Here's the result:

    aerobars.jpgshorter_stoker_stem.jpg

    These are parking lot photos taken before today's group ride. First photo is us down in aero position on the Syntace C2 clip-ons. Today's ride and this photo say the aerobars should be rotated up a couple of degrees. Stoker is holding the ends of her bullhorns and resting her wrists on the straight part right behind the ends. Second photo is of us in "up and slow" mode. Captain's 17 stem is slammed. Stoker's stock CoMo stoker stem has had 1.5" cut off of it, now 125mm.

    We rocked today. Very comfortable and noticeably faster. We did use the aerobars some, to bridge up, pull the group upwind on some sections, and get away on some sections. The tactic of getting on the aerobars and attacking on descents and tandem friendly sections worked very well. We were able to stay with the group much better when the road tilted back up and finished with a few of the fastest singles. Not bad for a couple of fat old folks.

  5. #55
    Tandem Mountain Climber
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    I like my Vision bars a lot. I tried several sets before I settled on these. I swap in a -17 degree stem when I use these, vs my normal -6 degree.

    My wife usually just gets in the drops to get aero, or uses the hoods with a deeper elbow bend... though none of the pictures show this.... hmmmmm






  6. #56
    Gear Combo Guru Chris_W's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WNY tandem View Post
    I use the Airstyke aero bars because of the flip up arm rests. I use the tops of my bars a lot and I didn't want to lose that hand position by adding static arm rests.
    Another option with flip-up arm pads is the models by 3T, which I like a lot. The Profile Design model shown above has springs to automatically flip the bars up, and I've found that the springs break after not that much use. The 3T model just has two positions that you manually put the pads in - either angled up or down on the bars, and they stay in that position - I like that when I take one arm off of the bars to shift gears or something then the pad doesn't automatically spring back up as it does on the Profile Designs model.

  7. #57
    just another gosling Carbonfiberboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by uspspro View Post
    I like my Vision bars a lot. I tried several sets before I settled on these. I swap in a -17 degree stem when I use these, vs my normal -6 degree.

    My wife usually just gets in the drops to get aero, or uses the hoods with a deeper elbow bend... though none of the pictures show this.... hmmmmm
    Your position looks great, but your stoker looks like she could be more stretched out without interfering with your legs. Might make more back angle less stressful for her. Can't really tell from these photos, though.

  8. #58
    Tandem Mountain Climber
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carbonfiberboy View Post
    Your position looks great, but your stoker looks like she could be more stretched out without interfering with your legs. Might make more back angle less stressful for her. Can't really tell from these photos, though.
    She's been to a professional fitting on the tandem.

    The slightly head-on perspective does hide the length of the stroker cockpit.

    She has a bit of saddle-to-bar drop and good compartment length. She can definitely ride for a good amount of time at a lower position. She just tends to straighten out when she gets tired. - These pics were from our 33.5 hour 2-tandem team Hoodoo 500 (520 mile) ultra in 2011.

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    You guys have some great pics while in action on the tandem above and on other threads. Wish I knew how you did it. Our ride photos suck!

  10. #60
    pan y agua merlinextraligh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by act0fgod View Post
    Merlin could you post a picture of the stokers settup. My wife has said for some time now that she wants aero bars to lean on for the longer rides. How is her face not in your back/butt.


    They're a set of profile by design aero bars with the extensions cut off short.

    Rather than putting her hands on the extensions, she holds onto my seatpost.

    The top of her helmet is right at my low back. Depending on how far I'm scooted forward on my saddle, and she on hers, she can rest her helmet on my back.

    It makes for a low and narrow position.

    In very unscientific testing, it appears to be worth close to 1/2mph versus her sitting up on the bull horns.
    You could fall off a cliff and die.
    You could get lost and die.
    You could hit a tree and die.
    OR YOU COULD STAY HOME AND FALL OFF THE COUCH AND DIE.

  11. #61
    Oldie, just not here! Onegun's Avatar
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    Merlin, do they interfere with her standing on a climb?
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  12. #62
    pan y agua merlinextraligh's Avatar
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    ^They do. She has to stand rather awkwardly to avoid bashing her knees.

    So we just use them for TT's and training for TT's.

    She can get the same position, without the pads by resting her forearms on the bars and grabbing the seatpost, but it's not as comfortable for sustained periods. When we need to be more aero at critical points, she'll ride that way.
    You could fall off a cliff and die.
    You could get lost and die.
    You could hit a tree and die.
    OR YOU COULD STAY HOME AND FALL OFF THE COUCH AND DIE.

  13. #63
    just another gosling Carbonfiberboy's Avatar
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    Having now used the aerobars and more aero stoker position on a number of local hilly rides, we can say that we are definitely faster. We are averaging about .7 mph faster over known hilly courses. Free speed, and lots of it. We have a few advantages. Our local courses have short hills, mostly 50'-500' with lots of rollers. I've used aerobars for many years. Stoker has a strong core with 60 years of horse riding and 30 years in the gym.

  14. #64
    Senior Member Turbotandem's Avatar
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    In most events / races we participate, areo bars are not allowed. That would include most recreational centuries as well as races like tour de park city 157mi, Cochise Classic 165mi, LoToJa 204 mi. Really any sactioned race does not allow them. Many double centuries and edurance racing like hoodoo or furnace creek do allow them, but my carbon bars are not reinforced to take the areo bar clamping, although there are some that are.

    What I do is what many racers practice if they are leading a peloton or in a break away: I ride with my forearms on the tops of the bars. I have placed a 1" x 3" x 2mm peice of bar phat from specialized under the bar tape right where I rest which is enough to keep my fore arms comfortable except on the worst roads, and also gives a measure of "grip" between my arm and the bar. It took a month or two to get comfortable steering and I don't do this on busy roads or cross winds. And Mrs Turbo know to warn me of movements like driking. But I like the relief of the position and can ride like that for 30 minutes at a time no problem.

    In a cross wind I'll often put one forearm down and rest some weight on it and hold the other hand on the lower drop with a deeply bent elbow. With the one forearm supporting me it's easier to hold a low position than both arms deeply bent in the drops.

    Here are three photos, taken with the bike in my trainer (the blue tape and wires are the computrainer rigging)
    1) medium
    2) low like in a bad head wind
    3) the bike without me on it to see the seat to bar heights
    medium.jpgLow.jpgtandem no rider.jpg
    Andy
    Boulder Colorado

  15. #65
    Clipless in Coeur d'Alene twocicle's Avatar
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    ^^^ I call it the "Euro tuck" because I first saw Euro pro racers like Jens Voigt use it and thought - hey why not?

    I find it is a little safer to do if you have cables to grab such as with the Shimano 9spd brifters with the derailleur cables exiting the side of the shifters. I still have these shifters on my single and zip tie the cables together in the middle where they cross for that very purpose - it gives a little more stability when grabbing hold. It still seems a sketchy position and so I only use that position on smooth, straight roads. Our tandem shifters do not have those cables exposed so any temptation to try in on a tandem is gone... good thing too as IMO is not a very safe position to use at the best of times.
    Last edited by twocicle; 04-04-13 at 10:37 AM.

  16. #66
    Senior Member diabloridr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Turbotandem View Post
    What I do is what many racers practice if they are leading a peloton or in a break away: I ride with my forearms on the tops of the bars. I have placed a 1" x 3" x 2mm peice of bar phat from specialized under the bar tape right where I rest which is enough to keep my fore arms comfortable except on the worst roads, and also gives a measure of "grip" between my arm and the bar. It took a month or two to get comfortable steering and I don't do this on busy roads or cross winds. And Mrs Turbo know to warn me of movements like driking. But I like the relief of the position and can ride like that for 30 minutes at a time no problem.

    In a cross wind I'll often put one forearm down and rest some weight on it and hold the other hand on the lower drop with a deeply bent elbow. With the one forearm supporting me it's easier to hold a low position than both arms deeply bent in the drops.
    +1 to that, although the Cinelli cork tape we use gives me enough grip as-is.

    I'll warn beloved stoker when I'm going to aero on the tandem - that's her cue to pedal smooth and don't do anything to disturb da Force.

    We need good pavement, consistent wind, and flat terrain to use this approach.

  17. #67
    just another gosling Carbonfiberboy's Avatar
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    We don't race and there are no local events that forbid aerobars. If we were interested in PBP, we'd have to train without them, but uh no, we aren't.

    Mild warning to those who lack the experience of the above. One death in the TdF from that. OK if you're alone. I saw a team captain in the Tour of Qatar come to the front to tell his guy not to pull like that. We hit a totally unexpected pothole on Saturday, hidden in mottled light. Luckily we were doing a good 35 while tucked and I pump my tires, so we just thumped right over it and didn't pinch flat. I'm a bit of a bug about bar grip. I always wrap my thumbs and hook my little finger behind the bar when on the hoods.

  18. #68
    pan y agua merlinextraligh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by twocicle View Post
    ^^^ I call it the "Euro tuck" because I first saw Euro pro racers like Jens Voigt use it and thought - hey why not?

    .
    Also referred to as IAB (invisible aero bars)
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  19. #69
    Clipless in Coeur d'Alene twocicle's Avatar
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    Either way, captaining a tandem with only forearm steering and no hand grips is a sure Darwin Award winner.

  20. #70
    pan y agua merlinextraligh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carbonfiberboy View Post
    Mild warning to those who lack the experience of the above. One death in the TdF from that.
    I don't think so.

    Francisco Cepeda died descending the Galibier in 1935, pretty sure he wasn't riding like that.

    Fabio Casrtelli died descending in the Pyranees in 1996. I'm sure he wasn't.

    I don't believe any other rider has died in a crash in the TDF.

    (Tom Simpson died climbing Ventoux, but it wasn't a crash)
    You could fall off a cliff and die.
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  21. #71
    pan y agua merlinextraligh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by twocicle View Post
    Either way, captaining a tandem with only forearm steering and no hand grips is a sure Darwin Award winner.
    Most tandem teams tend to be a bit older, well into, or past their reproductive years, and have likely procreated.

    Thus at best eligible for honorable mention, but not the award itself.
    You could fall off a cliff and die.
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  22. #72
    Senior Member Turbotandem's Avatar
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    I like the "invisible aero bar" moniker and "euro tuck".

    I agree if events allowed earo bars it's more stable to have them than invisble bars. There's a neat aero bar that mounts to the stem face plate that might be an option for carbon bar bikes that arn't rated for areo clamping.


    I do feel more stable on the tandem euro tuck than on my single, just as postings are saying of aero bars. IMHO the darwin award goes to those teams that take their decents crazy fast. A lot more lives are being risked going thru a corner too hot, than in a euro tuck. I'll take my decents under 35, and come out ahead on the risk profile.
    Andy
    Boulder Colorado

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    Depends what you call crazy fast I guess. Trying to keep with a group of singles I find we quite often need to take advantage of superior downhill speed to catch up after the uphill. Doesn't mean that you disengage your brain and go for it, but if the road is suitable the speed will certainly be well over 35mph.

  24. #74
    pan y agua merlinextraligh's Avatar
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    We hit 65mph in Everest Challenge.

    Masters Nationals, we attacked off the front at 55mph.

    We typically don't descend nearly that fast in non race situations.

    You can descend very fast and still be in control.

    Key for turns, is just like a race car, slow in, fast out.

    Of course, bad stuff can happen at 65mph, but that's bike racing.
    You could fall off a cliff and die.
    You could get lost and die.
    You could hit a tree and die.
    OR YOU COULD STAY HOME AND FALL OFF THE COUCH AND DIE.

  25. #75
    Senior Member Turbotandem's Avatar
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    As have we hit 65 in the Colorado thin air on a good straight away. And on the right kind of downhil of course the tandem passes singles. But on winding decents, not for me. I'm just saying, a euro tuck seems no more risky than many other things teams do on their tandem. 65mph or riding hot thru corners is more deserving a Darwin Award than riding 20mph resting on your forearms / Euro tuck.
    Andy
    Boulder Colorado

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