Cycling and bicycle discussion forums. 
   Click here to join our community Log in to access your Control Panel  


Go Back   > >

Tandem Cycling A bicycle built for two. Want to find out more about this wonderful world of tandems? Check out this forum to talk with other tandem enthusiasts. Captains and stokers welcome!

User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 03-15-13, 02:56 PM   #1
delcrossv 
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
delcrossv's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Scalarville
Bikes:
Posts: 1,459
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Thoughts on IPS/ICS systems?

Looking at a (used) tandem that has an independent coasting system. Can you folks walk me through the advantages/disadvantages of these?

This would be the family's first tandem if that makes a difference.

Thanks!
__________________
Lightning P-38 / M5 M-Racer/Ryan Vanguard
delcrossv is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-15-13, 09:00 PM   #2
rdtompki
Senior Member
 
rdtompki's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Hollister, CA
Bikes: Volagi, daVinci Joint Venture
Posts: 3,962
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I'd like the ICS (daVinci?) for a tandem being used by multiple family members who won't accumulate enough seat time to be completely comfortable. Also attractive for touring with a wide gearing range and what I see as much easier starts on steep pitches. My wife has no issue getting in sync, but getting OOP is more difficult, at least for my wife. Standing is a bit trickier and I don't think it's the strong point of an ICS configuration.

The other extreme would be a (relatively) young, fast couple: Lightest gear, Gates timing belt, compact double, etc.

The daVinci is a bit heavier. While it has two timing chains, I wouldn't describe it as being significantly more complex than a traditional drivetrain. The daVinci is extremely well built as are any number of other tandems so that's in no way an issue.
rdtompki is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-16-13, 09:54 AM   #3
gracehowler
Rod & Judy
 
gracehowler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Montrose, CO
Bikes: Specialized S-works e-5, Davinci joint venture, Specialized Vienna Commuter
Posts: 489
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
"Also attractive for touring with a wide gearing range and what I see as much easier starts on steep pitches. My wife has no issue getting in sync, but getting OOP is more difficult, at least for my wife. Standing is a bit trickier and I don't think it's the strong point of an ICS configuration."

I was waiting on Ricks comments, J & I agree, the gearing is outstanding for touring. Judy has a bit more trouble with sync and we are working on better ways to stand. It goes without saying that it IS nice to be able to stop pedaling without messing with your partner, but you really don't need to do it that often, people have been riding linked up for years.
R&J
gracehowler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-16-13, 05:18 PM   #4
p2templin
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Bikes:
Posts: 403
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
We test-rode a KHS (around the block) then a Santana entry/mid-level bike (for perhaps 15 miles) then a daVinci aluminum (around the block). We bought a daVinci carbon fiber tandem as our first tandem and love it. We find starting (it's the clipping in action that can be deadly) is much easier. Stopping is also easier for us, but we each put a leg down at every stop (my wife's a little heavier than I am, so I can't support the bike/riders with one leg yet). She never stands even on her single, and the only challenge to me standing is the length of the headset cord.

Only maintenance issues specific to the daVinci might be the chain tension management on a second eccentric, and the shaft that apparently needs occasional lube (we had a ticking sound that went away after a visit to a good shop).
p2templin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-13, 06:22 AM   #5
DCwom
Senior Member
 
DCwom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Central New Jersey
Bikes: Burley Tandem
Posts: 350
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
The DaVinci is good for new riders because it is one less thing to learn on starts/stops, we were enamored with the DiVinchi when we first started, but quickly learned that it wasn't for us. We find that there is a huge amount of "pedal communication" through the sync chain that allows us to react to each others effort.
DCwom is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-13, 08:25 AM   #6
cplager
The Recumbent Quant
 
cplager's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Norwalk, CT
Bikes: 2012 Cruzbike Sofrider, 2013 Cruzigami Mantis
Posts: 3,019
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by delcrossv View Post
Looking at a (used) tandem that has an independent coasting system. Can you folks walk me through the advantages/disadvantages of these?

This would be the family's first tandem if that makes a difference.

Thanks!
Since you're asking the question, I'll ask: Recumbent or DF?

One issue I believe (but am not sure about) is that it is much harder to stand with IPS than without. If you're on a recumbent, then this is a completely non-issue. Not all tandem riders try to stand, so this may not be an issue on a DF either.

Have you ridden with a tag-a-long bike? That's the truest form of IPS and I find that it is probably harder than an in-sync tandem at first, I do very much like the freedom. (Am I correct that you'll be the captain and one of your kids would be the pilot?)
cplager is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-13, 09:12 PM   #7
dwmckee
Senior Member
 
dwmckee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Bikes: Co-Motion Cappuccino Tandem,'88 Bob Jackson Touring Bike, Co-Motion Cascadia Touring Bike, Merckx Strasbourg71
Posts: 1,515
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 13 Post(s)
Wow - I thought DaVinci IPS was the way to go when we bought our first tandem but could not find a used one in our price range so we bought a used CoMotion. After about a week of getting used to CoMotion we have not had a second thought about IPS (5 years now) until I read this post. We got used to a conventional tandem very quickly and have not looked back since... I bet what ever you buy first and get used to will be what you love. There may be a few, but I have never read anyone say they liked and switched to IPS after they learned to ride a conventional first. I agree that the connection through the timing chain leads to more if a synchronized nonverbal mode where you start to think and act like a coordinated team. I bet you miss out on that when Captain and Stoker pedal independently...

One caveat though - If your stoker is a younger child you cannot expect them to stay synched with you on a long ride and if you do you wind up dragging their dead legs when you are powering the whole thing yourself. I ride mostly with my kids so I am speaking with experience. Had that issue when youngest was 6 - 8 or 9, but by 10 or so he was able to mostly contribute continuously. With a younger kid stoker where you do not hope to reach the coordination of two older people, IPS may make a lot of sense. With my oldest at 12 now though, I can tell you we are a tight team and he can do a 70 mile ride with me and pull his own weight continuously (almost the entire time!); we start and stop pedaling together without a word spoken about it all day and tandem riding together is a blast. We pass single riders all day long! The psychological connection through the chain really makes us closer without words. My son can sense when I want more power to pass, when to ease off for a turn, how to adjust effort as grade eases and we crest a hill, etc, all without a word spoken. Really nice! I think you may miss out on that when you are connected through IPS, but I must admit I have never ridden IPS so maybe I am all wet... I'd love to hear some comments from IPS riders out there on this...

Last edited by dwmckee; 03-19-13 at 09:28 PM.
dwmckee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-13, 08:46 AM   #8
delcrossv 
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
delcrossv's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Scalarville
Bikes:
Posts: 1,459
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by cplager View Post
Since you're asking the question, I'll ask: Recumbent or DF?

One issue I believe (but am not sure about) is that it is much harder to stand with IPS than without. If you're on a recumbent, then this is a completely non-issue. Not all tandem riders try to stand, so this may not be an issue on a DF either.

Have you ridden with a tag-a-long bike? That's the truest form of IPS and I find that it is probably harder than an in-sync tandem at first, I do very much like the freedom. (Am I correct that you'll be the captain and one of your kids would be the pilot?)
LWB 'bent tandem- one of those 10' limos.Actually the 14 y.o. would be the captain and I'll be the stoker- I was razzing him about making him pull all the hills as I sit back with a beer on one hand and a stogie in the other. I'd think if the main issue is not being able to stand, as you say it's not an issue here. I'd think synching would be simple with appropriate communication (?)

The issue is that the bike already has one, so I'm wondering if it's a good thing/bad thing.
__________________
Lightning P-38 / M5 M-Racer/Ryan Vanguard

Last edited by delcrossv; 03-20-13 at 08:52 AM.
delcrossv is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-13, 09:16 AM   #9
Bill G
Bill G
 
Bill G's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: California
Bikes: Co-Motion Nor'Wester Tour, Co-Motion Primera Tandem, WizWeelz Terra Trike 3.6 Tour model
Posts: 333
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by DCwom View Post
The DaVinci is good for new riders because it is one less thing to learn on starts/stops, we were enamored with the DiVinchi when we first started, but quickly learned that it wasn't for us. We find that there is a huge amount of "pedal communication" through the sync chain that allows us to react to each others effort.
Totally disagree here. We ride a daVinci and a Co Motion one with the ICS and one without we have no problems with either tandem. We rode for years with the standard tandem configuration with no issues. When we got the daVinci the wife and I took to it with no problems she found her self just getting right into sync without any commands and she did it very quickly. We still start and stop the same way no changes here. The big advantage with the daVinci is going slow around or through obstickles she just keeps here feet still and I peddle us around and through things sorta like being on a single when peddling here. I do not have to fight the dead weight of trying to spin the weight of her legs or the communication needed when peddling in these types of situations. Also the wide range of gearing on the daVinci over a regular tandem set up in general is awesome (great low gears and very good high gears) We have the Campi set up with the four rings up front.

Everyone is different but we love both our tandems and find the daVinci to be a tandem with some benafits that can be quite nice in some reguards and the build quality is top notch.

Ride Safe All,
Bill G
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Jump stop installed.jpg (95.1 KB, 15 views)
File Type: jpg tand 6.jpg (49.7 KB, 16 views)
File Type: jpg tn.jpg (36.2 KB, 18 views)
Bill G is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-13, 11:28 AM   #10
cplager
The Recumbent Quant
 
cplager's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Norwalk, CT
Bikes: 2012 Cruzbike Sofrider, 2013 Cruzigami Mantis
Posts: 3,019
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by delcrossv View Post
LWB 'bent tandem- one of those 10' limos.Actually the 14 y.o. would be the captain and I'll be the stoker- I was razzing him about making him pull all the hills as I sit back with a beer on one hand and a stogie in the other. I'd think if the main issue is not being able to stand, as you say it's not an issue here. I'd think synching would be simple with appropriate communication (?)

The issue is that the bike already has one, so I'm wondering if it's a good thing/bad thing.
Given the riding experience of this 14 year old and that the stoker isn't completely incompetent in this case, I think you'll do just fine. The biggest issue is going to be for the captain to get that lazy stoker to actually pedal....
cplager is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-13, 12:38 PM   #11
merlinextraligh
pan y agua
 
merlinextraligh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Jacksonville
Bikes: Wilier Zero 7; Merlin Extralight; Co-Motion Robusta; Schwinn Paramount; Motobecane Phantom Cross; Cervelo P2; Motebecane Ti Fly 29er; Calfee Dragonfly Tandem
Posts: 29,159
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 34 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by DCwom View Post
We find that there is a huge amount of "pedal communication" through the sync chain that allows us to react to each others effort.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill G View Post
Totally disagree here. We ride a daVinci and a Co Motion one with the ICS and one without we have no problems with either tandem.
Have you ridden the Davinci in a fast paceline, or pack situation?

In a paceline it can be difficult with a tandem to make those fine adjustments in power output to stay smooth, and not allow gaps. (and without putting a lot of extra work on the captain).
The feedback coming through the timing belt (even moreso than a timing chain) helps my stoker to anticipate when to feather the pedals, and when to apply a bit more torque. This is important given the stoker's limited ability to see up the road.

Admittedly, I've never ridden an ICS tandem, but I have to think the lack of connection between captain and stoker would be an impediment in this particular situation.
__________________
You could fall off a cliff and die.
You could get lost and die.
You could hit a tree and die.
OR YOU COULD STAY HOME AND FALL OFF THE COUCH AND DIE.
merlinextraligh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-13, 01:14 PM   #12
Bill G
Bill G
 
Bill G's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: California
Bikes: Co-Motion Nor'Wester Tour, Co-Motion Primera Tandem, WizWeelz Terra Trike 3.6 Tour model
Posts: 333
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by merlinextraligh View Post
Have you ridden the Davinci in a fast paceline, or pack situation?

In a paceline it can be difficult with a tandem to make those fine adjustments in power output to stay smooth, and not allow gaps. (and without putting a lot of extra work on the captain).
The feedback coming through the timing belt (even moreso than a timing chain) helps my stoker to anticipate when to feather the pedals, and when to apply a bit more torque. This is important given the stoker's limited ability to see up the road.

Admittedly, I've never ridden an ICS tandem, but I have to think the lack of connection between captain and stoker would be an impediment in this particular situation.
Yes we have, no problems none of the issues you guys are having. We just sync in and move right along..

Bill G
Attached Images
File Type: jpg tand 6.jpg (49.7 KB, 5 views)
File Type: jpg tand 10.jpg (43.6 KB, 6 views)
Bill G is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-13, 07:08 PM   #13
gracehowler
Rod & Judy
 
gracehowler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Montrose, CO
Bikes: Specialized S-works e-5, Davinci joint venture, Specialized Vienna Commuter
Posts: 489
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
I will add our 2 cents, we think there is still plenty of communication between riders with ICS, it's just a little differeent but still very much there.
R&J
gracehowler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-13, 07:16 PM   #14
Mistikka
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Saskatoon, Canada
Bikes: daVinci Global Venture, Marinoni Tourismo Extreme, aging Norco Terrene
Posts: 26
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by gracehowler View Post
I will add our 2 cents, we think there is still plenty of communication between riders with ICS, it's just a little differeent but still very much there.
R&J
+1
Mistikka is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-13, 11:51 AM   #15
ksisler
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Bikes:
Posts: 1,662
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by delcrossv View Post
LWB 'bent tandem- one of those 10' limos.Actually the 14 y.o. would be the captain and I'll be the stoker- I was razzing him about making him pull all the hills as I sit back with a beer on one hand and a stogie in the other. I'd think if the main issue is not being able to stand, as you say it's not an issue here. I'd think synching would be simple with appropriate communication (?) The issue is that the bike already has one, so I'm wondering if it's a good thing/bad thing.
Don't forget that there are tandem tag-a-longs also if one wants to make a tandem into a quad, etc., Never had one, but kinda would like to find one already. Right now new ones on ebay or amazon are in the $450 range which is outside my "playing with non-necessary toys" budget. Would like to read impressions of others with experience on one...
/K
ksisler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-13, 12:21 PM   #16
waynesulak
Senior Member
 
waynesulak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Ft Worth, TX
Bikes: 650B tandem converted from Santana Arriva, Santana Noventa, Boulder Bicycle 700C, Gunnar Sport, Trek TX700,
Posts: 1,927
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by merlinextraligh View Post
Have you ridden the Davinci in a fast paceline, or pack situation?

In a paceline it can be difficult with a tandem to make those fine adjustments in power output to stay smooth, and not allow gaps. (and without putting a lot of extra work on the captain).
The feedback coming through the timing belt (even moreso than a timing chain) helps my stoker to anticipate when to feather the pedals, and when to apply a bit more torque. This is important given the stoker's limited ability to see up the road.

Admittedly, I've never ridden an ICS tandem, but I have to think the lack of connection between captain and stoker would be an impediment in this particular situation.
Just a theory...

I also have never ridden a daVinci but trying to think like a stoker it seems to me that it would most likely not be a problem. The stoker should still sense the captain's every so slightly lowering power output by feeling the increased in resistance to her stroke. The ICS would not come into play unless she soft pedaled more than the captain did. My stoker claims NEVER to do when we are going fast. Only when there are large changes in pace would it come into play but small adjustments to power should be manageable.
waynesulak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-13, 04:57 PM   #17
Bill G
Bill G
 
Bill G's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: California
Bikes: Co-Motion Nor'Wester Tour, Co-Motion Primera Tandem, WizWeelz Terra Trike 3.6 Tour model
Posts: 333
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by waynesulak View Post
Just a theory...

I also have never ridden a daVinci but trying to think like a stoker it seems to me that it would most likely not be a problem. The stoker should still sense the captain's every so slightly lowering power output by feeling the increased in resistance to her stroke. The ICS would not come into play unless she soft pedaled more than the captain did. My stoker claims NEVER to do when we are going fast. Only when there are large changes in pace would it come into play but small adjustments to power should be manageable.

merlinextraligh in his post tends to be a little down or has a underlying sorta poor opinion of the daVinci ICS system in every post about daVinci tandems even though he claims he has never ridden one. Just an observation over time and after reading many post about daVinci tandems on this forum.

Waynesulak you are pretty much right in your theory above concerning the ICS system.

Ride Safe All,
Bill G
Attached Images
File Type: jpg tand 6.jpg (49.7 KB, 0 views)
File Type: jpg tn.jpg (36.2 KB, 1 views)
File Type: jpg Jump stop installed 2.jpg (89.2 KB, 1 views)
Bill G is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-13, 05:09 PM   #18
DubT
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Central Illinois
Bikes: Trek Speed Concept 9.9, 2011 Calfee Tetra Tandem
Posts: 1,045
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill G View Post
merlinextraligh in his post tends to be a little down or has a underlying sorta poor opinion of the daVinci ICS system in every post about daVinci tandems even though he claims he has never ridden one. Just an observation over time and after reading many post about daVinci tandems on this forum.

Waynesulak you are pretty much right in your theory above concerning the ICS system.

Ride Safe All,
Bill G
Help me understand how ice works. Can the stoker in theory soft pedal constantly and never apply any power?
Thatnismthe way I perceive it but I may be wrong. I know when my stoker is applying power, is it that way with ics?

I would not even consider ics, but if it offers an advantage to the ones who buy them and gets them out on the bike with their stoker then I think it is awesome. Just not something I would even look at.

wayne
DubT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-13, 05:44 PM   #19
cajoe
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: SF Bay Area, CA
Bikes: 1994 Santana Sovereign tandem, 1999 Trek 5000, 1985 Specialized Allez SE
Posts: 46
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I've never ridden ICS either, but we just returned from our first multi-day (supported) tour and there was one day where I think ICS would have been helpful.

Near the end of the third day we were both getting a bit tired and saddle sore. We were riding into a headwind up a gentle incline with about 15 miles to do. Trying to coordinate coasting or pedaling out of the saddle or stopping (for butt breaks) just added more stuff to deal with when we both just wanted to git'er done! We both would have been happier if I could have put my head down and driven it home, while she was able to coast/stand for mini breaks from time to time.

Having said that, the remainder of the week was awesome, and we did just fine. But I can see that for long rides the ability to easily get out of the saddle independently and coast if needed could be a huge benefit especially when fatigue creeps in.
cajoe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-13, 06:36 PM   #20
gracehowler
Rod & Judy
 
gracehowler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Montrose, CO
Bikes: Specialized S-works e-5, Davinci joint venture, Specialized Vienna Commuter
Posts: 489
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by cajoe View Post

We both would have been happier if I could have put my head down and driven it home, while she was able to coast/stand for mini breaks from time to time.

Having said that, the remainder of the week was awesome, and we did just fine. But I can see that for long rides the ability to easily get out of the saddle independently and coast if needed could be a huge benefit especially when fatigue creeps in.
We find this the best part of ICS!
R&J
gracehowler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-13, 07:06 PM   #21
waynesulak
Senior Member
 
waynesulak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Ft Worth, TX
Bikes: 650B tandem converted from Santana Arriva, Santana Noventa, Boulder Bicycle 700C, Gunnar Sport, Trek TX700,
Posts: 1,927
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by gracehowler View Post
We find this the best part of ICS!
R&J
When we first started to ride a tandem we would stay seated and when we needed a butt break would stand an coast. Now we stand and pedal from time to time before needing a butt break and never stand to coast. We find standing to pedal great fun, really "dancing on the pedals." Now we just wish we had the aerobic capacity to stand longer and more often.


just another exame of diiferent strokes for different folks. I think it is a creative system but we decided against it for .
waynesulak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-13, 07:16 PM   #22
gracehowler
Rod & Judy
 
gracehowler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Montrose, CO
Bikes: Specialized S-works e-5, Davinci joint venture, Specialized Vienna Commuter
Posts: 489
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by waynesulak View Post
When we first started to ride a tandem we would stay seated and when we needed a butt break would stand an coast. Now we stand and pedal from time to time before needing a butt break and never stand to coast. We find standing to pedal great fun, really "dancing on the pedals." Now we just wish we had the aerobic capacity to stand longer and more often.


.
We stand and pedal a lot more than we used to, but standing with ICS is not easy and needs to be another thread!
R&J
gracehowler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-13, 07:19 PM   #23
waynesulak
Senior Member
 
waynesulak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Ft Worth, TX
Bikes: 650B tandem converted from Santana Arriva, Santana Noventa, Boulder Bicycle 700C, Gunnar Sport, Trek TX700,
Posts: 1,927
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by gracehowler View Post
We stand and pedal a lot more than we used to, but standing with ICS is not easy and needs to be another thread!
R&J
If standing is harder then i would not want ICS. That is one reason we stay in phase.
waynesulak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-13, 07:34 PM   #24
estrem
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Bikes:
Posts: 20
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by cajoe View Post
I've never ridden ICS either, but we just returned from our first multi-day (supported) tour and there was one day where I think ICS would have been helpful.

Near the end of the third day we were both getting a bit tired and saddle sore. We were riding into a headwind up a gentle incline with about 15 miles to do. Trying to coordinate coasting or pedaling out of the saddle or stopping (for butt breaks) just added more stuff to deal with when we both just wanted to git'er done! We both would have been happier if I could have put my head down and driven it home, while she was able to coast/stand for mini breaks from time to time.

Having said that, the remainder of the week was awesome, and we did just fine. But I can see that for long rides the ability to easily get out of the saddle independently and coast if needed could be a huge benefit especially when fatigue creeps in.
cajoe has it exactly right. We do ride a daVinci with ICS. We started out with a used Cannondale which was just fine. I did find however, that at the end of a long ride, I was pushing my wife/stoker's legs around as she became tired. When it became time to upgrade, we tried the daVinci and really liked it. Now she has a lot more flexibility back there. We miss out on the nuances of being tied together, but, you know what, we have a blast together and that is what counts.
estrem is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-13, 08:47 PM   #25
Bill G
Bill G
 
Bill G's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: California
Bikes: Co-Motion Nor'Wester Tour, Co-Motion Primera Tandem, WizWeelz Terra Trike 3.6 Tour model
Posts: 333
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by DubT View Post
Help me understand how ice works. Can the stoker in theory soft pedal constantly and never apply any power?
Thatnismthe way I perceive it but I may be wrong. I know when my stoker is applying power, is it that way with ics?

I would not even consider ics, but if it offers an advantage to the ones who buy them and gets them out on the bike with their stoker then I think it is awesome. Just not something I would even look at.

wayne
Yes you are correct. The point was that with a weaker rider or kids it has an advantage in a lot of cases. But the mane point here was certain partyies said in a pace line they assumed it would be a problem with the ICS never having ridden the ICS daVinci system. My point was it is not a problem in this situation for exactly what you stated. MY stoker my wife is a stong rider and we are pretty even in power over all so we have none of these issues thrown out by folks on a daVinci as stated in many post that I have made. We stay pretty much in sync all the time with no floating issues in or out of a pace line or any other situation. My wife just locks in sync on her own without any communication. I find I communicate less with her on our daVinci than I do on our Co Motion..

Ride Safe All,
Bill G
Attached Images
File Type: jpg tand 6.jpg (49.7 KB, 3 views)
File Type: jpg Jump stop intalled 4.jpg (88.4 KB, 2 views)
File Type: jpg Jump stop installed.jpg (95.1 KB, 3 views)
File Type: jpg tn.jpg (36.2 KB, 4 views)

Last edited by Bill G; 04-08-13 at 10:47 AM.
Bill G is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 06:57 PM.