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  1. #226
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    Pi is a beautiful number. It is the constant defined as the relationship between the circumference and diameter of a perfect circle.

  2. #227
    Gear Combo Guru Chris_W's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by waynesulak View Post
    Increasing the diameter by 20% increases the circumference by more than 20% or approx 25%. Many people do not expect this and would think a 20% increase in circumference to result from a 20% increase in diameter. Those people with some math background find this relationship intuitive but I have run into many that do not.
    Quote Originally Posted by waynesulak View Post
    and kids tell the geometry teacher they will never use that stuff!
    I think your geometry teacher would be disappointed in your skills. Maybe you should have paid more attention in class.

    Let me try this again: 200/160 = 1.25 AND 628/502 = 1.25
    Try not to get confused and mix up the numerators and denominators (comparing 160/200 to 628/502 is not how to look at it).
    Last edited by Chris_W; 12-03-13 at 04:00 PM.

  3. #228
    Tandem Vincitur Ritterview's Avatar
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    A new review of the TRP Spyre at Bike Radar


    TRP Spyre mechanical disc brake | $79.99

    Full-hydraulic disc brakes may be the future for road and cyclocross bikes but there are few options in the here and now. Countless mechanical levers are already out there though, and TRP hopes to take advantage of that with its all-new Spyre brake. Recent revisions have improved things substantially since we first sampled them back in April but we still think there's a little more work to be done...


    TRP also offers the Spyre with a carbon fiber lever arm instead of the standard aluminum one but it only saves 8g

  4. #229
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    Quote Originally Posted by akexpress View Post
    I have set my HY/RD up multiple times like this however the spring in the caliper is just not strong enough to fully retract the actuator on a tandem length cable. My cable run is very good with quality compression less housing and new cables so that is not the problem. I also think for some reason the problem is exasperated as the caliper heats up. The problem is that if they system does not retract fully every time the piston position does not allow for pad wear and the brake becomes useless. Bike brake calipers use a square seal on the piston that when functioning correctly slowly moves the piston toward the pad as the pads wear to keep the braking the same as pads wear. This is one advantage of a hydraulic system over mechanical if all is functioning correctly.
    the Hope V2 floating rotor 203mm is now my rotor of choice. I have gotten it very hot and it does get noisy but it quickly quiets down as it cools and has never warped. I now have them on 3 tandems all with good results. IMHO anything less then 200mm is looking for trouble on a tandem, especially with only one disc brake however your results may be different.
    Mark
    Hi everybody! I'm new here and really interested in this discussion.

    We've a Trek t2000, with an old Magura Gustav M as a drag brake with a stoker lever to actuate it, and tektro mini v-brakes front and rear. The Gustav is really powerful, but it's almost impossible to silence it, I've tried everything (centering, new pads, new disc, pad silencer, ...) but every time after a brake it start squeaking, resonating in the whole frame. The only fix is to stop and push manually the caliper towards the rim, that silence it until the next time my stoker brakes. Moreover, I and my stoker we don't really like shouting in the middle of a descent to coordinate the breaking. So, we are looking for a replacement. We live in Switzerland and we're often confronted with steep descent and we don't consider rim only brakes as a safe option. So, I came across the Hy/Rd, that seems to be the perfect solution, no more noise and no more stoker lever (and maybe also the option to run the mini v-brake and the disc at the same time with a PS Cable doubler 1:2?) , but luckily I've read this post before ordering anything. I've a question about this issue: has anyone tried to insert an additional spring between the caliper cable housing end and the cable attachment arm? (as shown by this not very well photoshoped photo :-) )

    trp-brakes-hy-rd-road-hydraulic-disc-brake-img_6261-c_1.jpg

    Could this solution provide the additional force to fully retract the cable?
    Valde_91

  5. #230
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    Valde_91, regarding your brake lever for the disc, have you considered:

    http://www.cyclingnews.com/features/...-part-9/164632

  6. #231
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    Quote Originally Posted by Valde_91 View Post
    Hi everybody! I'm new here and really interested in this discussion.

    We've a Trek t2000, with an old Magura Gustav M as a drag brake with a stoker lever to actuate it, and tektro mini v-brakes front and rear. The Gustav is really powerful, but it's almost impossible to silence it, I've tried everything (centering, new pads, new disc, pad silencer, ...) but every time after a brake it start squeaking, resonating in the whole frame. The only fix is to stop and push manually the caliper towards the rim, that silence it until the next time my stoker brakes. Moreover, I and my stoker we don't really like shouting in the middle of a descent to coordinate the breaking. So, we are looking for a replacement. We live in Switzerland and we're often confronted with steep descent and we don't consider rim only brakes as a safe option. So, I came across the Hy/Rd, that seems to be the perfect solution, no more noise and no more stoker lever (and maybe also the option to run the mini v-brake and the disc at the same time with a PS Cable doubler 1:2?) , but luckily I've read this post before ordering anything. I've a question about this issue: has anyone tried to insert an additional spring between the caliper cable housing end and the cable attachment arm? (as shown by this not very well photoshoped photo :-) )

    trp-brakes-hy-rd-road-hydraulic-disc-brake-img_6261-c_1.jpg

    Could this solution provide the additional force to fully retract the cable?
    Valde_91
    I bought springs for this purpose and will report back how well it works in a few weeks. I think it will be a band aid solution until TRD changes to a heavier spring.

  7. #232
    Gear Combo Guru Chris_W's Avatar
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    Valde - Why do you want to use the semi-hydraulic HyRd instead of a purely mechanical brake? The only advantage I've heard for hydraulics is better modulation / lever feel. If you're only using it as a third brake, then I wouldn't expect fine modulation to be very important; that's certainly important for your 2 primary brakes, but I wouldn't care about it for the 3rd brake. I'd therefore not choose a brake that is known not to work well on tandems, and would instead go with one of the purely mechanical brakes that is known to work reasonably well (Avid BB7, Shimano CX75/77, Bengal, and TRP's Spyre all having their merits).

    We're also a tandem team that lives in Switzerland (Lausanne) and have lots of experience of big descents. We've always had the stoker controlling the 3rd brake, and don't have too many problems with communication - I just yell BRAKE for her to apply the brake gently while on a straight stretch of road, then I yell OFF when we're approaching a corner, when our speed has dropped significantly, or when I want to rotate braking force to a different surface. We've used an Avid BB7 up to now, but I'm so happy with the Shimano CX75's that I've been using on my single bike that I may soon put one of those on the tandem (it's certainly easier to change pads on the Shimanos, although pad adjustment is not as easy as with the BB7).

    BTW - did I meet you at a bike courier party about a month ago, or is there more than one Trek tandem with a Gustav rear brake operated by the stoker in Switzerland?

  8. #233
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    Anyone know anything about a recall?
    http://www.cx-sport.de/content/cyclo...re-zur%C3%BCck

    I just bought 2 of these guys.
    BTW, I am using a helper spring on the rear spyre since it didn't return the arm fully. I does help but it changes the feel a bit. I'm going to try a different gauge spring.

    If true now everyone's had a recent disc brake recall.

  9. #234
    Senior Member coloroadie's Avatar
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    Here's the recall notice in english: http://www.trpbrakes.com/news_detail.php?nid=139

    "TRP Brakes has identified a potential safety issue in the lab with the Spyre and Spyre SLC mechanical disc brakes and, as a responsible company, has issued a “stop sell” notice to our OEM customers and distributors until we have a solution in place. We are working hard on the issue and anticipate a solution very shortly. More information will be forthcoming as soon as possible."

  10. #235
    Senior Member dwmckee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris_W View Post
    Valde - Why do you want to use the semi-hydraulic HyRd instead of a purely mechanical brake?
    I have a set of the Hy/Rds on a single Co-Motion touring bike and I can tell you why - WOW!!! They are so powerful and have unbelievable modulation and NEVER fade... They are amazing. Now if I could just get mine to adjust properly as the pads wear... They seem to be the ultimate disc brake for a tandem; unfortunately our current tandem does not have disc brake mounts so I have to just keep them on my single, but WOW!!! It is the brake power and feel you dreamed of for a tandem. So much confidence and control. The Hy/Rd is a quantum leap in disc brakes. I use them with Avid HSE rotors and they are dead quiet too, just a slight woosh sound and no squeal EVER!

  11. #236
    Tandem Vincitur Ritterview's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by coloroadie View Post
    "TRP Brakes has identified a potential safety issue in the lab with the Spyre and Spyre SLC mechanical disc brakes ..."
    I wonder if TRP considers descending tandems to be a sort of lab?

    I've been expecting a recall of the SLC version, what with our experience, but not the standard aluminum armed Spyre.

    If the Spyre remerges, but with no SLC version, it will have been the melting carbon problem.

  12. #237
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    If you look at the date on the recall notice (German version) you'll notice that it's from 6 months ago.

  13. #238
    Senior Member Werkin's Avatar
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    My guess, the rest of the world lists the day followed by the month, and that's why the date appears retro at first glance on the German notice.

  14. #239
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    Hrm interesting.
    When I see xx/xx/xxxx I assume it's month-day-year (American style).
    However in Germany people don't write dates this way. Usually it's yyyy.mm.dd or something like that, and I'm not sure if they ever write dd.mm.yyyy. But I've never seen dd/mm/yyyy. I honestly don't know the exact date of that article without doing further research.

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    Scratch that. There is also a "Fr" there (Freitag = Friday). June 12th wasn't a Friday. December 6th was a Friday. So yes apparently that notice was just posted.

    Crap. I just ordered a Spyre and it has not arrived yet. Does this mean I should not put it on?

  16. #241
    Gear Combo Guru Chris_W's Avatar
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    The recall date is December 6th, 2013 (i.e., yesterday). All of Europe uses the convention of dd.mm.yyyy.

  17. #242
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    Quote Originally Posted by dwmckee View Post
    I have a set of the Hy/Rds on a single Co-Motion touring bike and I can tell you why - WOW!!! They are so powerful and have unbelievable modulation and NEVER fade... They are amazing. Now if I could just get mine to adjust properly as the pads wear... They seem to be the ultimate disc brake for a tandem; unfortunately our current tandem does not have disc brake mounts so I have to just keep them on my single, but WOW!!! It is the brake power and feel you dreamed of for a tandem. So much confidence and control. The Hy/Rd is a quantum leap in disc brakes. I use them with Avid HSE rotors and they are dead quiet too, just a slight woosh sound and no squeal EVER!
    You are experiencing the problem we are all having on the tandems in that the reservoir doesn't refill all the time and they don't adjust for pad wear. The return spring is not strong enough. Also you
    can make them noisy on a tandem,you just need a big enough descent.
    Last edited by akexpress; 12-07-13 at 10:15 AM. Reason: Added info

  18. #243
    Gear Combo Guru Chris_W's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris_W View Post
    Valde - Why do you want to use the semi-hydraulic HyRd instead of a purely mechanical brake?
    Quote Originally Posted by dwmckee View Post
    I have a set of the Hy/Rds on a single Co-Motion touring bike and I can tell you why - WOW!!! They are so powerful and have unbelievable modulation and NEVER fade... They are amazing. Now if I could just get mine to adjust properly as the pads wear... They seem to be the ultimate disc brake for a tandem; unfortunately our current tandem does not have disc brake mounts so I have to just keep them on my single, but WOW!!! It is the brake power and feel you dreamed of for a tandem. So much confidence and control. The Hy/Rd is a quantum leap in disc brakes. I use them with Avid HSE rotors and they are dead quiet too, just a slight woosh sound and no squeal EVER!
    I recently finished setting up a single bike with dual mechanical disc brakes - a Specialized Secteur frame with Shimano CX75 brakes front and rear, 160mm Shimano RT81 rotors, Nokon compressionless housing, and Ultegra 6700 STI levers. This is the best disc braking I've experienced yet from drop-bar levers - modulation and power are great, and ever since I got them centered correctly, they don't make any noise (both in use or not in use). I have tried a few other models of mechanical disc brakes with a variety of drop-bar levers, different cable housings, and various rotors, and this is easily the best setup yet. Pad adjustment for wear is done with a small allen key on each side (the only annoying thing is that two sizes are needed: 2.5mm and 3mm), and pad changes are super easy, with pads being readily available.

    I cannot see what advantage adding hydraulics to the system would bring, except for causing maintenance headaches. People's reports of their experience with the HyRd brakes certainly hasn't changed my opinion on this yet.

    Even on my MTB, I use a fully mechanical setup - Avid BB7 MTN brakes with SD7 levers, standard brake housing, and Avid rotors - simply awesome stopping power with very little finger effort, and good modulation (for some reason, this is easily better still than any disc brake setup I've achieved with drop-bar levers). Again, who needs the headaches of hydraulic systems, even on MTBs?

    BTW, I am a professional bike mechanic, and so I do know what I'm doing with hydraulic systems, but I don't want them on any of my personal bikes - their is just no real advantages to offset the major disadvantages for me. The only advantage I can see of the hydraulic systems is the pads self-correcting for wear, but this is only relevant if riding in really muddy conditions, which I tend to avoid whenever possible; if you're not riding in extreme conditions then the interval between needing to adjust the pad position is long enough to not bother me, and it's not much different than it would be for rim brakes. Plus, because hydraulic brakes self-correct for pad wear, when installing new pads you have to reset the pistons' position, which can often be a MASSIVE PAIN (especially with certain brands); this can certainly be way more hassle than is manually adjusting the pad position a few times during the brake pads' life on a mechanical system.

  19. #244
    Clipless in Coeur d'Alene twocicle's Avatar
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    Right on board with you for using mechanical vs hydraulic.

    However, this just ain't the year for trusting calipers... the Shimano BR-CX75/R515/R315 were also recalled recently, for models sold February 2012 through May 2013.
    http://www.bikeradar.com/us/road/new...-issued-38222/
    http://www.cpsc.gov/en/Recalls/2013/...rake-Calipers/
    http://www.bicycleretailer.com/recal...a#.UqOQtqzMqBQ

    http://cycle.shimano-eu.com/publish/...recall_by.html
    The replacement calipers are models: BR-CX77/R517/R317

    Still, the TRP has the advantage of a dual piston design. I am sending my Spyre back due to the recall, and will wait for the fixed version to come out.
    Last edited by twocicle; 12-07-13 at 02:50 PM.

  20. #245
    Senior Member dwmckee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris_W View Post
    I cannot see what advantage adding hydraulics to the system would bring, except for causing maintenance headaches. People's reports of their experience with the HyRd brakes certainly hasn't changed my opinion on this yet.

    I cannot tell you why they are better, and other brakes certainly do work, but the Hy/Rds (when adjusted) are really superior to BB7s for feel and especially power and fade resistance.

  21. #246
    Senior Member dwmckee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by akexpress View Post
    You are experiencing the problem we are all having on the tandems in that the reservoir doesn't refill all the time and they don't adjust for pad wear. The return spring is not strong enough. Also you
    can make them noisy on a tandem,you just need a big enough descent.
    Is there a fix? I have tried several times to manually pull back the levers, but there just does not seem to be any additional return room to open the brake arm after the lever is released. I have tried detaching the cable and operating the lever 50 times too thinking that would be enough full cycles to backfill the reservoir to adjust for pad wear, but still no difference. If that did not fix it I cannot imagine that a little spring on the cable will...

  22. #247
    Gear Combo Guru Chris_W's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by twocicle View Post
    Right on board with you for using mechanical vs hydraulic.

    However, this just ain't the year for trusting calipers... the Shimano BR-CX75/R515/R315 were also recalled recently, for models sold February 2012 through May 2013.
    http://www.bikeradar.com/us/road/new...-issued-38222/
    http://www.cpsc.gov/en/Recalls/2013/...rake-Calipers/
    http://www.bicycleretailer.com/recal...a#.UqOQtqzMqBQ

    http://cycle.shimano-eu.com/publish/...recall_by.html
    The replacement calipers are models: BR-CX77/R517/R317

    Still, the TRP has the advantage of a dual piston design. I am sending my Spyre back due to the recall, and will wait for the fixed version to come out.
    Yep, I know about the recall of the CX75 to be replaced by the CX77, and have spoken to a few people at Shimano about this. Apparently, the CX75 functions as they should (and the same as the CX77) in regular use, but if you start messing about with them with no pads in and do something dumb then you can mess up the CX75. I'm not sure that it's worth sending them back for the exchange.
    Last edited by Chris_W; 12-09-13 at 01:40 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris_W View Post
    Valde - Why do you want to use the semi-hydraulic HyRd instead of a purely mechanical brake? The only advantage I've heard for hydraulics is better modulation / lever feel. If you're only using it as a third brake, then I wouldn't expect fine modulation to be very important; that's certainly important for your 2 primary brakes, but I wouldn't care about it for the 3rd brake. I'd therefore not choose a brake that is known not to work well on tandems, and would instead go with one of the purely mechanical brakes that is known to work reasonably well (Avid BB7, Shimano CX75/77, Bengal, and TRP's Spyre all having their merits).

    We're also a tandem team that lives in Switzerland (Lausanne) and have lots of experience of big descents. We've always had the stoker controlling the 3rd brake, and don't have too many problems with communication - I just yell BRAKE for her to apply the brake gently while on a straight stretch of road, then I yell OFF when we're approaching a corner, when our speed has dropped significantly, or when I want to rotate braking force to a different surface. We've used an Avid BB7 up to now, but I'm so happy with the Shimano CX75's that I've been using on my single bike that I may soon put one of those on the tandem (it's certainly easier to change pads on the Shimanos, although pad adjustment is not as easy as with the BB7).

    BTW - did I meet you at a bike courier party about a month ago, or is there more than one Trek tandem with a Gustav rear brake operated by the stoker in Switzerland?
    Hi Chris_W!

    Yes that was my tandem, but with a friend and his girlfriend riding it (I actually was at the party - btw a great one!). The fact is that I also ride with friends and sometimes borrow the tandem and I feel that it would be easier if all the breaking was in the captain’s hands. That because riding with someone that is not used to the stopping power of the Gustav could be sometimes almost dangerous, because it brakes really hard. So I thought to get rid of the rim brake and have only the disc directly connected to the drop lever (or with a cable doubler to maintain the disc and the rim brakes, but I'm not sure that is possible to set up properly a system like that, and probably it wouldn't give any advantage, so it is just a silly idea :-) ).

    Thanks for your advice on cable disc brakes, because personally I've only a little experience with hydraulics ones (the Gustav and the SH Xt mounted on the cargo bikes of the messenger company where I used to work). I'll try to test a bike with Shimano CX brakes to get an idea how they work and then consider the swap. I imagine that if I change the caliper I need also to get also new disc, right?

    Bye and thanks also to the others that have replied to my message,
    Valde_91

  24. #249
    Senior Member Werkin's Avatar
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    I contacted TRP in the U.S. with a few questions including how the Stop Sell notice effects consumers. They have not formulated a plan at this point. The person I spoke with shared some of their considerations, but it's only speculation till the official announcement.

    The design fault is not the same as the carbon arm failure. As I understand, the way to avoid the potential failure mode is to use the outboard pad adjustment screw/bolt to set initial pad gap and compensate for pad wear, rather than with the barrel adjuster.

  25. #250
    Gear Combo Guru Chris_W's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Valde_91 View Post
    Thanks for your advice on cable disc brakes, because personally I've only a little experience with hydraulics ones (the Gustav and the SH Xt mounted on the cargo bikes of the messenger company where I used to work). I'll try to test a bike with Shimano CX brakes to get an idea how they work and then consider the swap. I imagine that if I change the caliper I need also to get also new disc, right?
    Stop by the shop where I work some day - The Bike in Pully, and I should be there with my Secteur that is setup with the CX77 mechanical discs, and you can take it for a ride. These brakes also just got a pretty positive review at BikeRadar.

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