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Tandem Cycling A bicycle built for two. Want to find out more about this wonderful world of tandems? Check out this forum to talk with other tandem enthusiasts. Captains and stokers welcome!

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Old 07-24-14, 05:15 PM   #326
twocicle
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Just a little update on my setup:

The 180 mm Hope floating rotor will not work correctly with the TRP Spyre. The floating rivets are too close to the braking surface and will scrape on the Spyre's caliper/pads. I played around with the different washers and mounts and did get it to fit. But, ultimately, I was not comfortable with the odd angle and slightly reduced braking surface the new setup entails. So these rotors are going back.

CJ
Would you be able to provide an exact picture of that rotor in question? There is sometimes a little confusion over which Hope floating rotor works and which does not. The Hope Sawtooth floating does not work, where as the one in #319 posted above works fine as the rivets are much lower.

The Hope website is not very clear either, but you can see from the pictures that the rotor with the smooth outer edge has the rivets lower than those with the sawtooth/jagged edge. See: http://www.hopetech.com/product/disc-rotors/

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Old 07-24-14, 07:54 PM   #327
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Yep,
I got that sawtooth rotor.



I just could not make it work.
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Old 08-01-14, 11:17 AM   #328
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Ok, my final update on the Avid BB7 front squealing issue......have added about 300 more miles and the bulk of the squealing has diminished to an acceptable level. Rode with about 10 tandems in Ventura, CA last weekend and 70% of the tandems related various but similar squealing issues. Time seems to be the universal answer and cleaning the rotor and pads or changing pads(upgrading) was another solution with good results.

At the end of the day......believe it to be a time and "wearing in" of this particular brake setup. Braking is more than sufficient when tested on grades of 8-10% downhills with speeds of up to 48 mph.
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Old 08-11-14, 03:19 PM   #329
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Much the same as with the Avid BB7, I've been finding the Spyre return spring tension to be a little less than ideal to take up all the wire slack and provide a nice taught lever feel. The Spyre actuator arm seems to have some forward/back slop in it which results in very little wire pull. Then, if I tighten the wire enough to my liking, the actuator arm stays too far forward, resulting in brake drag. I rechecked the brake wire run from the front lever to rear and that is very slick without any stickiness.

I'm just chalking this up to the issue being the bane of mechanical (wire) brakes, and installed an inline spring in the same fashion as I used to do with the BB7.. between the cable stop and the actuator arm. Works like a charm again and with that firm brake lever feel I like so much.

I can't recall if either of the Spyre 1 or 2 (the latter being the recall replacement version) had that actuator arm slop when new out of the box. Meanwhile, perhaps other owners might want to keep an eye on their calipers too, so we get a bigger sample of feedback from the group.

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Old 08-11-14, 04:55 PM   #330
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I had to do the same thing(add the helper spring) on my cx bike with spyres. Curiously I didn't have to with the rear BB7 on the tandem.

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Originally Posted by twocicle View Post
Much the same as with the Avid BB7, I've been finding the Spyre return spring tension to be a little less than ideal to take up all the wire slack and provide a nice taught lever feel. The Spyre actuator arm seems to have some forward/back slop in it which results in very little wire pull. Then, if I tighten the wire enough to my liking, the actuator arm stays too far forward, resulting in brake drag. I rechecked the brake wire run from the front lever to rear and that is very slick without any stickiness.

I'm just chalking this up to the issue being the bane of mechanical (wire) brakes, and installed an inline spring in the same fashion as I used to do with the BB7.. between the cable stop and the actuator arm. Works like a charm again and with that firm brake lever feel I like so much.

I can't recall if either of the Spyre 1 or 2 (the latter being the recall replacement version) had that actuator arm slop when new out of the box. Meanwhile, perhaps other owners might want to keep an eye on their calipers too, so we get a bigger sample of feedback from the group.
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Old 08-11-14, 09:42 PM   #331
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For my rear Spyre, I just got a set of Jagwire DCA016 : Mountain Sport brake pads, as they were recommended by the LBS. Whoa, Nellie, these seem to add real power. They are steel backed, and aren't particularly light, but they provide a lot of confidence. Whisper quiet too. I'm sure I've seen more impressive $20 upgrades, but I can't recall any.



With these pads, it seems that serious engagement requires less lever travel. If your Spyre is mushy or weak, I'd recommend giving these a shot.
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Old 10-23-14, 06:27 PM   #332
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Sorry to resurrect this very long thread. I've read through all 331 postings so far, but I'm not sure where things stand re: the latest version of the TRP brakes (Spyre and Hy/Rd) and their suitability for tandem use, whether or not the manufacturer has given its blessing for such use.

I'm looking for a disk brake caliper that improves on the BB7 braking experience.

From what I recall the choices are:

1) Spyre with aluminum arm, not the "SLC" version. Was recalled late last year due to pivot bearing becoming dislocated. The latest version that fixes this problem can be identified by laser etching at the outside pivot and the use of a 3mm allen, not torx adjustment bolt. An improvement over the BB7. Does not bend the rotor due to double-piston action. Still prone to some pad drag when adjusted for maximal effectiveness. Pads do not self-adjust.

2) Hy/Rd. Latest version with improved fluid reservoir. Better modulation than with Spyre. Pads self-adjust and do not drag when brakes are open. I recall reading that the return spring of the Hy/Rd wasn't strong enough to pull the caliper back to idle when using a long brake cable run as on a tandem. Has this been addressed with the latest version of the caliper? I also read somewhere that someone experienced hot brake fluid forcing pads closed, but maybe this was on an early version.

Is there a consensus on which of these brakes is the more appropriate for tandem use? Thanks.
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Old 10-24-14, 09:39 AM   #333
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Hey Mister Bill (not to be confused with McBill),

No defacto concensus regarding caliper choice. I'm sure you'll get a stream of responses with everyone's preference, probably add another 100 posts to this SPYRE thread.

Regarding Spyre "pad drag" you mentioned, I resorted to the old solution I had done with the Avid a long time ago... installed a spring-over-wire assistor between the arm and caliper body. Otherwise the Spyre "v2" seems to be working fine without issue or complexity.
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Old 10-24-14, 09:13 PM   #334
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I believe the hy/Rd is not yet certified for tandem use officially but some are using it successfully regardless, but not within anufacturer rated limits. Use this way at your own risk and check trp ratings.
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Old 10-24-14, 09:57 PM   #335
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I believe the hy/Rd is not yet certified for tandem use officially but some are using it successfully regardless, but not within anufacturer rated limits. Use this way at your own risk and check trp ratings.
I think you could say this for just about very disc brake on the market!
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Old 10-24-14, 10:49 PM   #336
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We have used the following Avid BB7 melted on Ventoux (along with 3 other teams) Bengal no real bad issues (tends to ting on Chip seal due to magnetic pad retraction) but has small pad size therefore not super powerful but reliable , first generation Hy/Rd (poor lever feel , ok power with new pads but does not adjust for pad wear.) Now the new Shimano R785 hydraulic DI2 disc brake ( by far the best so far in terms of power modulation and lever feel -think XT/XTR mountain bike brake feel, both resin and metallic pads available cons must be using DI2 . It is good enough I am changing our fork to have it on both the front and rear. YRMV We ride almost exclusively in the mountains and want good brakes. It is nice to be descending a steep pass and be able to dive into corners and use the brakes to securely slow down then get off the brakes and do this all the way down without issues.
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Old 10-25-14, 04:00 PM   #337
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Twocicle - just a quick question. In your considered opinion - what is the braking effectiveness improvement of the Spyre over the BB7? Rough % fine. Just trying to work out whether it was worth the upgrade (currently 2 X BB7/203 mm rotors - like the principle of Spyre double pistons and wondered if it actually carried through to performance).
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Old 10-25-14, 05:47 PM   #338
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Twocicle - just a quick question. In your considered opinion - what is the braking effectiveness improvement of the Spyre over the BB7? Rough % fine. Just trying to work out whether it was worth the upgrade (currently 2 X BB7/203 mm rotors - like the principle of Spyre double pistons and wondered if it actually carried through to performance).

Funny enough, just last night I pulled off the rear Spyre/RT99 disc setup in order to try out a set of Shimano Ultegra BR-6800 brake calipers (from the 11spd series) I've had laying around for a while. Net weight saving of all parts swapped was 246gm less for the rim brake setup. Riding with it today, I am really impressed with the 6800 caliper quality... extremely good power and firm feel on the tandem. I have the similar Dura Ace 9000 caliper version on my single, but don't really notice the power as much as on the tandem for some reason. I wouldn't use this setup for long steep killer hills, but do like this dual 6800 rim brake feel a lot.

IMO, the Spyre is an incremental upgrade from the Avid BB7. Technically the Spyre should be superior with its dual pistons, but IRL usage it seems a marginal improvement. With the right set of pads, either caliper can provide good braking. For high load usage (long steep hills), I would put my money into the Spyre as the BB7 is known to have its plastic bits melt. If you already have BB7 calipers and happy with those, then invest in some nice pads instead.

Currently my ever growing parts bins contain a near new BB7 box, NIB Avid pads, and NIB EBC metallic pads for the BB7, plus some of those plastic bits as spares and a couple steel 203mm Avid rotors. Anyone wants this stuff, PM me.

Last edited by twocicle; 10-25-14 at 06:07 PM.
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Old 10-26-14, 02:35 AM   #339
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Funny enough, just last night I pulled off the rear Spyre/RT99 disc setup in order to try out a set of Shimano Ultegra BR-6800 brake calipers (from the 11spd series) I've had laying around for a while. Net weight saving of all parts swapped was 246gm less for the rim brake setup. Riding with it today, I am really impressed with the 6800 caliper quality... extremely good power and firm feel on the tandem. I have the similar Dura Ace 9000 caliper version on my single, but don't really notice the power as much as on the tandem for some reason. I wouldn't use this setup for long steep killer hills, but do like this dual 6800 rim brake feel a lot.

IMO, the Spyre is an incremental upgrade from the Avid BB7. Technically the Spyre should be superior with its dual pistons, but IRL usage it seems a marginal improvement. With the right set of pads, either caliper can provide good braking. For high load usage (long steep hills), I would put my money into the Spyre as the BB7 is known to have its plastic bits melt. If you already have BB7 calipers and happy with those, then invest in some nice pads instead.

Currently my ever growing parts bins contain a near new BB7 box, NIB Avid pads, and NIB EBC metallic pads for the BB7, plus some of those plastic bits as spares and a couple steel 203mm Avid rotors. Anyone wants this stuff, PM me.
Thanks for the input - our BB7s are old and a bit melted from a few alpine descents, so this was the nudge I needed. I will source a pair. T
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Old 10-26-14, 09:43 AM   #340
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Thanks for the input - our BB7s are old and a bit melted from a few alpine descents, so this was the nudge I needed. I will source a pair. T
In that case, you may also need a new pair of adapter brackets from TRP because Avid's is a little shorter given they provide room for the extra CPS washers which the TRP does not have. Or, be prepared to add some washers to your existing Avid bracket to raise the TRP a millimeter or two toward the outer edge of the rotor.
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Old 10-26-14, 09:53 AM   #341
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Originally Posted by Ritterview View Post
For my rear Spyre, I just got a set of Jagwire DCA016 : Mountain Sport brake pads, as they were recommended by the LBS. Whoa, Nellie, these seem to add real power. They are steel backed, and aren't particularly light, but they provide a lot of confidence. Whisper quiet too. I'm sure I've seen more impressive $20 upgrades, but I can't recall any.



With these pads, it seems that serious engagement requires less lever travel. If your Spyre is mushy or weak, I'd recommend giving these a shot.
Thanks for the tip Will. I'll have to give those a trial run. Let us know how they hold up after more use.

Easy enough to find the DCA016 on that page, but FWIW, Jagwire has another page link specifically for Tektro/TRP which makes it a little clearer which pad for which model.
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Old 10-26-14, 08:26 PM   #342
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We have used the following Avid BB7 melted on Ventoux (along with 3 other teams) Bengal no real bad issues (tends to ting on Chip seal due to magnetic pad retraction) but has small pad size therefore not super powerful but reliable , first generation Hy/Rd (poor lever feel , ok power with new pads but does not adjust for pad wear.) Now the new Shimano R785 hydraulic DI2 disc brake ( by far the best so far in terms of power modulation and lever feel -think XT/XTR mountain bike brake feel, both resin and metallic pads available cons must be using DI2 . It is good enough I am changing our fork to have it on both the front and rear. YRMV We ride almost exclusively in the mountains and want good brakes. It is nice to be descending a steep pass and be able to dive into corners and use the brakes to securely slow down then get off the brakes and do this all the way down without issues.
Have you tried the improved hy/Rd caliperst though? These are a generation or two ahead of the bb7 in my opinion and no need to worry about hydraulic cables and special levers.
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Old 10-26-14, 09:30 PM   #343
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Have you tried the improved hy/Rd caliperst though? These are a generation or two ahead of the bb7 in my opinion and no need to worry about hydraulic cables and special levers.
No but if I recall correctly you are using these on a single. Have you converted your tandem to them? They would be great if they had a better lever feel and worked as designed. I spent a lot of time talking to them on the phone and at interbike and they said it was incorrect install at first then finally recognized there is /was a problem and sent a new reservoir seal. Unless they changed the internal spring I think they will still have issues on a tandem. FWIW everyone of our brake issues has been repeated amongst our riding friends so I feel confident it's not just our techniques. Obviously YRMV
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Old 10-27-14, 11:14 AM   #344
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No but if I recall correctly you are using these on a single. Have you converted your tandem to them? They would be great if they had a better lever feel and worked as designed. I spent a lot of time talking to them on the phone and at interbike and they said it was incorrect install at first then finally recognized there is /was a problem and sent a new reservoir seal. Unless they changed the internal spring I think they will still have issues on a tandem. FWIW everyone of our brake issues has been repeated amongst our riding friends so I feel confident it's not just our techniques. Obviously YRMV
Hi akexpress:

Did you resolve your "lever feel" problem with the Hy/Rd? How long ago did you have this problem? What kind (standard spiral-reinforced housing or "compressionless" housing) and age of cable housing are you using? Is it likely that TRP is distributing current versions of the caliper with an improved reservoir seal or a stronger return spring? Would using a MTB brake lever instead of a road lever nullify the "lever feel" issue?
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Old 10-27-14, 05:49 PM   #345
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No but if I recall correctly you are using these on a single. Have you converted your tandem to them? They would be great if they had a better lever feel and worked as designed. I spent a lot of time talking to them on the phone and at interbike and they said it was incorrect install at first then finally recognized there is /was a problem and sent a new reservoir seal. Unless they changed the internal spring I think they will still have issues on a tandem. FWIW everyone of our brake issues has been repeated amongst our riding friends so I feel confident it's not just our techniques. Obviously YRMV
Thanks, you could be right. I can only use my Hy/Rd calipers on my single because our current tandem frame is limited to rim brakes. My calipers were not upgraded to the new reservoir seal, they actually were replaced, but I do not know if that makes any difference. All I can say is that the improvement on a single bike over the BB7 is much more than a small evolution, it is a leap in feel and performance. I live in Pittsburgh and ride down steep long windy hills all of the time. I could easily make a BB7 start to fade on a good hill but even trying to make the HyRd fade has not been possible so far. Lever modulation is really linear and precise and pads wear down and adjust perfectly as to be undetectable from the beginning of the pad to the end. It feels like it would be excellent on a tandem. Our previous tandem had BB7s on it and I am comparing to those; they worked fairly well, but on a good hill I always had to brake carefully so as not to start to induce fade. It feels like the Hy/Rds would far outperform BB7s but I cannot compare to the other calipers you have tried.
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Old 11-05-14, 10:05 AM   #346
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For my rear Spyre, I just got a set of Jagwire DCA016 : Mountain Sport brake pads, as they were recommended by the LBS. Whoa, Nellie, these seem to add real power. They are steel backed, and aren't particularly light, but they provide a lot of confidence. Whisper quiet too. I'm sure I've seen more impressive $20 upgrades, but I can't recall any.



With these pads, it seems that serious engagement requires less lever travel. If your Spyre is mushy or weak, I'd recommend giving these a shot.
Shopping update on these pads for either the Spyre or Hy/Rd... how does $4.60/pair sound?

Anyone desperately needing a ton of pads or enterprising enough to distribute some of the 25 pair of pads (hey, Christmas presents to your friends) can get a whole box of them from Niagara Cycle for just under $115 shipped!

PS to Santa: I'll take 2 please
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Old 11-26-14, 04:57 PM   #347
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Shopping update on these pads for either the Spyre or Hy/Rd... how does $4.60/pair sound?

Anyone desperately needing a ton of pads or enterprising enough to distribute some of the 25 pair of pads (hey, Christmas presents to your friends) can get a whole box of them from Niagara Cycle for just under $115 shipped!

PS to Santa: I'll take 2 please
That's not a bad price for so many pads! Has anyone here used them? How are they on fit into the caliper? The stock TRP pads were a little loose in my Spyre SLC and it drives me a little nuts.
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Old 11-26-14, 07:35 PM   #348
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That's not a bad price for so many pads! Has anyone here used them? How are they on fit into the caliper? The stock TRP pads were a little loose in my Spyre SLC and it drives me a little nuts.
see the Ritterview quote I referenced, or original above... indicates he is using them.
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Old 11-27-14, 10:16 AM   #349
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I set up a Spyre with a Tiagra lever that uses the old amount of cable pull and it was mushy. Were they designed around the slightly greater cable pull of Dura-ace/Ultegra/105 or the even greater pull of mountain V-brake levers?
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Old 11-27-14, 01:40 PM   #350
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High Mechanical Advantage can feel mushy , because of the MA, the V brake lever is Lower MA .

there is an MTB version: the Spyke TRP
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