Cycling and bicycle discussion forums. 
   Click here to join our community Log in to access your Control Panel  


Go Back   > >

Tandem Cycling A bicycle built for two. Want to find out more about this wonderful world of tandems? Check out this forum to talk with other tandem enthusiasts. Captains and stokers welcome!

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 03-25-13, 04:13 PM   #26
Ritterview
Tandem Vincitur
Thread Starter
 
Ritterview's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Northern California
Bikes: BMC Pro Machine SLC01, Specialized Globe, Burley Rock 'N Roll tandem, Calfee Dragonfly tandem.
Posts: 3,317
Quote:
Originally Posted by PMK View Post
From experience, the 160mm style caliper perch, chainstay mounted is best in many ways. There is less weight, there is less lateral flex, chainstays are stronger than a dropout. All except the less weight make the brakes work better.

As for the cable run, if the bike does have an acceptable route, such as a diagonal frame tube, the alignment is pretty much perfect with the shortest cable route possible.

As evidence to compare, we have experience with three tandems with disc brakes. A Fandango 29 off-road tandem, a Ventana 26 full suspension off-road tandem andour Co-Motion Roadster with front and rear disc brakes.

The Co-Motion stops very well, but has obvious frame flex and torquing of the LS dropout. Not that I have seriously tried, but on dry pavement I am not convinced the Co-motion can skid the rear tire. It may but might be enough stress to damage the dropout with the leverage provided by the perch and radius of the brake. The caliper is mounted similar to the Calfee and is without any bracing.

The Ventana also stops well, it also has visible chainstay and dropout flex. There is no means to flex the seatstay or entire frame since the brake caliper is dropout mounted on the lower suspension arm (swingarm). This bike sees very heavy braking in all forms of terrain, some low grip other times high grip. It is not uncommon to be on the brakes so hard to have them lock up or induce brake chatter in hacked entries to corners.

The best tandem disc brakes on a tandem we have owned that were cable operated were on the Fandango. Alex did a very good job of placing the caliper on the LS chainstay. The mounting perch is based on a 160 series mount but designed for a 203 rotor. Once installed, this brake is rock solid in feel and can easily skid the big 2.35 rear tire on asphalt.

In this teams experience it does make a difference.

PK
This is a very informative post. If you could post pics of the rear triangles of these, it would make it even more so.
__________________

Strava Tandem Club
Ritterview is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-08-13, 11:45 PM   #27
Ritterview
Tandem Vincitur
Thread Starter
 
Ritterview's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Northern California
Bikes: BMC Pro Machine SLC01, Specialized Globe, Burley Rock 'N Roll tandem, Calfee Dragonfly tandem.
Posts: 3,317
The TRP Spyre, and Spyre SLC are now listed (but 'Out of Stock') at the TRP website, in a new category of Road Disc. This hopefully means that availability is imminent.



The cable-actuated HY/RD hydraulic apparently has lots of power. An early adopter volunteer is needed to determine if a tandem will make the reservoir fluid boil.



That lid on the reservoir looks like a version with aluminum cooling fins could be used.

Attached Images
File Type: jpg 31pZtESIh-L._SY300_.jpg (6.8 KB, 3 views)
__________________

Strava Tandem Club
Ritterview is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-09-13, 12:33 AM   #28
akexpress
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Anchorage, Ak
Bikes: Calfee Tetra tandem, Ventana ECDM 26, Ventana ECDM 29r, Orbea Orca, Santa Cruz Carbon 5010
Posts: 466
We are going to be an early adopter volunteer. I talked to Trp yesterday and they expect the brakes in by the end of the week and we are set to get a Hy/Rd. I was initially interested in the Spyre but after talking to them went with the hydraulic version. As we seem to be hard on brakes with the large steep descents we do so we will be good test dummies. We have melted Avids on Mt. Ventoux and melted the cable adjuster on a Bengal on Arthurs pass in New Zealand, we know how to get them hot. ( to be fair so did most other teams on these rides with us.) We are experienced with hydraulic brakes on our mountain tandems and love the power and modulation so if we can duplicate that on the road tandem it would be awesome. Supposedly the composite pistons don't transmit the heat which will help the fluid temps. The pads are interchangeable with Shimano pads and are semimetallic. I will be using a two piece Hope rotor as they seem to be rather impervious to warping. I am anxious to hear how the carbon rotors are working.
akexpress is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-09-13, 07:15 PM   #29
chichi
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2008
Bikes:
Posts: 379
I saw the TRP mechanicals this weekend. I liked what I saw but did not test ride them. It will be interesting to see if the hope two piece vented rotor will fit in them. I have been using the hope vented front and rear and have not melted anything on the Aavid bb7 since I went to the disc both front and back. I did melt parts when I only had the disc in back. I put the disc on the front before a trip to France last year and had no problems on the much feared Mt. Ventoux. In the past I was putting new pads on the rear disc every 1000-1200 miles, have not replaced front or rear pads since going to front and rear disc set up prior to the Mt Ventoux trip. I am thinking of going to a non vented two piece hope disc in the rear as it is not seeing any where near the heat build up it did when I had the standard caliper brake in front. I will occasionally get some rub out of the rear disc and I am thinking a thinner disc and the TRP will be less finicky. I have been amazed at the improvement in braking and durability since putting the disc up front, we now do downhills on the tandem that I am reluctant to do on a single.
chichi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-09-13, 07:18 PM   #30
rdtompki
Senior Member
 
rdtompki's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Hollister, CA
Bikes: Volagi, daVinci Joint Venture
Posts: 3,962
I'll take three: one for the tandem and two for the Volagi!. The Volagi stops just fine, but the Avid disc brake pads tend to rattle and interfere with the zen of the ride.
rdtompki is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-09-13, 07:37 PM   #31
EddNog
Senior Member
 
EddNog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Cherry Hill, NJ
Bikes: Road/Race: 2012 Breezer Venturi; Trail: 2016 Scott Scale 720 Plus
Posts: 199
Quote:
Originally Posted by rdtompki View Post
I'll take three: one for the tandem and two for the Volagi!. The Volagi stops just fine, but the Avid disc brake pads tend to rattle and interfere with the zen of the ride.
That's strange, I didn't have any rattling issues with my BB7s on my other bike.

-Ed
EddNog is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-09-13, 08:39 PM   #32
austex
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Bikes:
Posts: 156
First on-road reviews not so favorable: http://www.cyclingnews.com/features/...st-ride-review

Any worry about using the carbon-armed version, what with melting problems on BB7's? After all, "carbon" is just reinforced plastic ("CFRP" - Carbon Fiber Reinforced Polymer). It's one thing to melt the adjuster knob, quite another to melt the actuation arm...
austex is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-10-13, 04:26 AM   #33
Dean V
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Bikes:
Posts: 1,075
If they are a composite piston that doesn't transmit much heat, it must be staying in the disc instead. It doesn't magically disappear.
Dean V is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-10-13, 08:08 AM   #34
Bent In El Paso
Senior Member
 
Bent In El Paso's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: El Paso, TX
Bikes: Co-Motion Speedster Co-Pilot
Posts: 187
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dean V View Post
If they are a composite piston that doesn't transmit much heat, it must be staying in the disc instead. It doesn't magically disappear.
Is that a bad thing? As long as the disc is able to dissipate the heat without warping, that is better the melting plastic pieces on the caliper or boiling fluid.
Bent In El Paso is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-10-13, 04:42 PM   #35
nfmisso
Nigel
 
nfmisso's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: San Jose, CA
Bikes: 1980s and 1990s steel: CyclePro, Nishiki, Schwinn, SR, Trek........
Posts: 1,879
Quote:
Originally Posted by uspspro View Post
That's crazy! Let us know how that rotor works out.... Myself, I'd be scared to try it!
"silicon carbide/ceramic/carbon fiber rotor,"


That is the material used in F1 auto racing, and what the optional rotors are on Porsches - the scary thing is the cost .... $$$$ ....
nfmisso is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-10-13, 08:03 PM   #36
Dean V
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Bikes:
Posts: 1,075
Quote:
Originally Posted by nfmisso View Post
"silicon carbide/ceramic/carbon fiber rotor,"


That is the material used in F1 auto racing, and what the optional rotors are on Porsches - the scary thing is the cost .... $$$$ ....
It is nothing like the carbon rotors used in motorsport.
Dean V is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-10-13, 11:09 PM   #37
Ritterview
Tandem Vincitur
Thread Starter
 
Ritterview's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Northern California
Bikes: BMC Pro Machine SLC01, Specialized Globe, Burley Rock 'N Roll tandem, Calfee Dragonfly tandem.
Posts: 3,317
Quote:
Originally Posted by akexpress View Post
We are going to be an early adopter volunteer... I am anxious to hear how the carbon rotors are working.
Well, I took an early adopter one for the team with the Kettle SiCCC-SFL Rotor. It is light, and it looks nice.


It is quiet, has good modulation, and seems to handle heat quite well. It is very civilized. The only problem is that with my Avid BB7 and organic pads it has neither grab nor power. The Highway 9 descent is never above 7%, and it wouldn't bring us to a stop without assistance from the front rim caliper (it wasn't as strong as my ee brake caliper on a carbon rim). I reckon it has only 50% of the power of the Shimano ICE.

For tandems, it might only be useful as a weight weenie measure as one rotor for tandems on gentle terrain wherein two disc brakes are overkill. It might be okay as an ultralight drag brake, as it does handles heat well, and does slow you down. But it is not a brake as in something to brings you to an abrupt halt.

Switching over to the Shimano ICE was soooo nice. Real braking power that dissipates heat. The ICE's power is great on keeping the stoker from wigging out on descents. An occasional twinge on the brake demonstrates to the stoker that things are under powerful control, she is not accelerating headlong to destruction. 89 more grams than the Kettle, but it allowed us to go so much faster with confidence.



I'll keep my Kettle, as Kettle is introducing SiCCC pads that apparently have better grab. I'll wait until I can get the Shimano pads for the TRP Spyre instead of Avid BB7. I'll give it another try then, but on rolling terrain and not a big descent. I figure that I can use the Kettle as part of a weight weenie set up for Low Key Hill Climbs (and for a scale pic on the What does your tandem weigh? thread).

If the SiCCC pads help part of the way, maybe the power-endowed TRP Hy/Rd could take it the rest of the way to being nearly okay.
__________________

Strava Tandem Club
Ritterview is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-16-13, 12:19 PM   #38
akexpress
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Anchorage, Ak
Bikes: Calfee Tetra tandem, Ventana ECDM 26, Ventana ECDM 29r, Orbea Orca, Santa Cruz Carbon 5010
Posts: 466
Talked to TRP today and they are still awaiting shipment of the new brakes from the factory in Taiwan. It appears they will not be available for a couple of weeks still.
akexpress is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-16-13, 02:04 PM   #39
fietsbob 
coprolite
 
fietsbob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: NW,Oregon Coast
Bikes: 7
Posts: 18,086
Theres a web video, bench testing the Hy-Rd, repeatedly the brakes were set
till the disc was hot enough to give off a dull red glow, then released and this repeated..

said there was no fading..

The key, as described, is making the piston from an insulating material,
so as to not transfer so much heat to the fluid.

TRP contact address had me say : can you just sell a black one or a polished one
and not play Mix and match with the black reservoir cover on the polished one ,
and the polished cover on the black one ..

I'd prefer is just sit there in Black and not bring attention to itself. ..
fietsbob is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-20-13, 03:29 PM   #40
joe@vwvortex
Senior Member
 
joe@vwvortex's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Vacaville, CA
Bikes: Co-Motion Speedster Tandem, S-works 29r, Specialized Tarmac SL4
Posts: 532
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ritterview View Post

Which model ICE rotor is that?
joe@vwvortex is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-20-13, 10:11 PM   #41
Ritterview
Tandem Vincitur
Thread Starter
 
Ritterview's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Northern California
Bikes: BMC Pro Machine SLC01, Specialized Globe, Burley Rock 'N Roll tandem, Calfee Dragonfly tandem.
Posts: 3,317
Quote:
Originally Posted by joe@vwvortex View Post
Which model ICE rotor is that?
This is exactly what I ordered:

Shimano Disc Brake Rotor RT-86 6-Bolt 203mm

(When you order bike stuff from Amazon, it doesn't show in the credit card bill so clearly as a bike purchase, to keep the stoker from wigging out).
__________________

Strava Tandem Club
Ritterview is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-21-13, 11:33 AM   #42
joe@vwvortex
Senior Member
 
joe@vwvortex's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Vacaville, CA
Bikes: Co-Motion Speedster Tandem, S-works 29r, Specialized Tarmac SL4
Posts: 532
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ritterview View Post
This is exactly what I ordered:

Shimano Disc Brake Rotor RT-86 6-Bolt 203mm

(When you order bike stuff from Amazon, it doesn't show in the credit card bill so clearly as a bike purchase, to keep the stoker from wigging out).
Ok - thanks been wanting to order a set.
joe@vwvortex is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-21-13, 11:52 AM   #43
twocicle
Clipless in Coeur d'Alene
 
twocicle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Coeur d'Alene, Idaho
Bikes: Calfee Tetra Tandem, Specialized Tarmac SL4 S-Works, other misc Road & MTB singles
Posts: 1,590
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ritterview View Post
Well, I took an early adopter one for the team with the Kettle SiCCC-SFL Rotor. It is light, and it looks nice.


It is quiet, has good modulation, and seems to handle heat quite well. It is very civilized. The only problem is that with my Avid BB7 and organic pads it has neither grab nor power. The Highway 9 descent is never above 7%, and it wouldn't bring us to a stop without assistance from the front rim caliper (it wasn't as strong as my ee brake caliper on a carbon rim). I reckon it has only 50% of the power of the Shimano ICE.

For tandems, it might only be useful as a weight weenie measure as one rotor for tandems on gentle terrain wherein two disc brakes are overkill. It might be okay as an ultralight drag brake, as it does handles heat well, and does slow you down. But it is not a brake as in something to brings you to an abrupt halt.

Switching over to the Shimano ICE was soooo nice. Real braking power that dissipates heat. The ICE's power is great on keeping the stoker from wigging out on descents. An occasional twinge on the brake demonstrates to the stoker that things are under powerful control, she is not accelerating headlong to destruction. 89 more grams than the Kettle, but it allowed us to go so much faster with confidence.



I'll keep my Kettle, as Kettle is introducing SiCCC pads that apparently have better grab. I'll wait until I can get the Shimano pads for the TRP Spyre instead of Avid BB7. I'll give it another try then, but on rolling terrain and not a big descent. I figure that I can use the Kettle as part of a weight weenie set up for Low Key Hill Climbs (and for a scale pic on the What does your tandem weigh? thread).

If the SiCCC pads help part of the way, maybe the power-endowed TRP Hy/Rd could take it the rest of the way to being nearly okay.
Should I say "told ya so"? Oops, already did

If anyone has a Centerlock compatible hub, they should opt for the Saint ICE version, as that has the extra heat dissipation fins.

Last edited by twocicle; 05-21-13 at 12:14 PM.
twocicle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-21-13, 06:38 PM   #44
akexpress
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Anchorage, Ak
Bikes: Calfee Tetra tandem, Ventana ECDM 26, Ventana ECDM 29r, Orbea Orca, Santa Cruz Carbon 5010
Posts: 466
The TRP brakes are now in stock. I have a Hy/Rd in black with a 203 mm rotor on the way and will give a test report in a few days .
akexpress is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-21-13, 06:45 PM   #45
DKMcK 
I'd rather be riding
 
DKMcK's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Charlotte NC
Bikes: Santana Team Ti 700 S&S, Trek Madone 6, Klein Palamino, Trek 510
Posts: 106
Quote:
05-21-13, 08:38 PMakexpress
The TRP brakes are now in stock. I have a Hy/Rd in black with a 203 mm rotor on the way and will give a test report in a few days .
Were you able to order the Hy/Rd with 203 mm rotor directly from TRP?
DKMcK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-21-13, 07:00 PM   #46
akexpress
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Anchorage, Ak
Bikes: Calfee Tetra tandem, Ventana ECDM 26, Ventana ECDM 29r, Orbea Orca, Santa Cruz Carbon 5010
Posts: 466
Quote:
Originally Posted by DKMcK View Post
Were you able to order the Hy/Rd with 203 mm rotor directly from TRP?
Yes. I had talked to Brice and Dave prior to the brakes arriving from the factory. I had told them I was going to use it on a tandem with a 203 and they told me they could bundle it that way. When they called me today about the availability I ordered it bundled that way and a spare set of pads. As I am a fan of two piece rotors I am going to try it first with my Hope V2 rotor. I may also try a Ice rotor for comparison.
akexpress is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-21-13, 08:37 PM   #47
Dean V
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Bikes:
Posts: 1,075
Quote:
Originally Posted by twocicle View Post
Should I say "told ya so"? Oops, already did

If anyone has a Centerlock compatible hub, they should opt for the Saint ICE version, as that has the extra heat dissipation fins.
In which post did you say that the carbon disc wouldn't work?
Dean V is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-22-13, 01:58 PM   #48
twocicle
Clipless in Coeur d'Alene
 
twocicle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Coeur d'Alene, Idaho
Bikes: Calfee Tetra Tandem, Specialized Tarmac SL4 S-Works, other misc Road & MTB singles
Posts: 1,590
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dean V View Post
In which post did you say that the carbon disc wouldn't work?
I was referring to Ritterview's comment that the ICE Rotor has a great feel, not that "the carbon disc wouldn't work". I've posted this opinion more than once and will leave the searching for you.
twocicle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-22-13, 06:50 PM   #49
Ritterview
Tandem Vincitur
Thread Starter
 
Ritterview's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Northern California
Bikes: BMC Pro Machine SLC01, Specialized Globe, Burley Rock 'N Roll tandem, Calfee Dragonfly tandem.
Posts: 3,317
Quote:
Originally Posted by twocicle View Post
I was referring to Ritterview's comment that the ICE Rotor has a great feel, not that "the carbon disc wouldn't work". I've posted this opinion more than once and will leave the searching for you.
Gee, I had thought the comment was about the Kettle rotor too. I was thinking it was bad enough to have taken the early adopter hit on the carbon rotor, but then to be scolded about it!

At $50, the ICE rotor is about the best performance upgrade bang-for-buck that I can think of, in comparison to steel rotor. Its power, modulation and heat management greatly enhance descending confidence. The ICE moniker is apropos, as it keeps not only the brake, but so too the stoker, cool.
__________________

Strava Tandem Club
Ritterview is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-23-13, 11:35 AM   #50
joe@vwvortex
Senior Member
 
joe@vwvortex's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Vacaville, CA
Bikes: Co-Motion Speedster Tandem, S-works 29r, Specialized Tarmac SL4
Posts: 532
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ritterview View Post
Gee, I had thought the comment was about the Kettle rotor too. I was thinking it was bad enough to have taken the early adopter hit on the carbon rotor, but then to be scolded about it!

At $50, the ICE rotor is about the best performance upgrade bang-for-buck that I can think of, in comparison to steel rotor. Its power, modulation and heat management greatly enhance descending confidence. The ICE moniker is apropos, as it keeps not only the brake, but so too the stoker, cool.
Thanks for the info - I've got two coming my way.
joe@vwvortex is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 09:08 PM.