Ritterview

Good points, but I'm using an ENVE 2.0 fork to which all this applies and I am well pleased. No one to my knowledge has had any problems with the ENVE 2.0 fork on a tandem. But this thread is about new disc brakes, not forks. I'll have to start another thread about disc forks.

waynesulak

You could lift the rear wheel of the tandem?
How much does your stoker (approx) weigh?
What front tire did you have?

Bostic

I noticed that as well when I recently looked at the Co-Motion website. TRP Spyre everywhere.

Good to hear on the Spyres working well as I want to change our Cannondale RT2 from BB7 to them. My wife and I won't be climbing & descending Bohlman anytime soon but we have gone up and done Regnart, Toll Gate and Mt. Eden so enough places with 19% grades to put discs to the test (we are a 285lb team).

SaddleSoar

I can't imagine anybody "endo"ing a tandem regardless of what type front brake they have - even if the stoker is full of hot air!

Turbotandem

I wouldn't disparage the early adopters. that's part of the technology adoption cycle (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:...Innovation.png)
Some of us are on the front of that bell curve which helps the larger group. Others would still buy a rotary phone if they could. Often bike technology discussions one around to arguments between these phylosophical positions, more so than the technology itself.
I'm on one of the early the trp spyre sl, and its worked well for some 200k of rocky mountain descending where the thin air provides noticeably slight resistance on the high passes. I check for cracks and see none but am now worried.
Has anyone actually felt the bolt after breaking? I am wondering of the conclusion the bolt gets hot is accurate. And I'm thinking heat would distort the arms fitting on the jolt not crack it.
I'm hoping trp offers an analysis of RV's arm failure.

mkane77g

Wheel lift at speed on a bumpy decent ( Pine Flat in Sonoma County)Not much but still off the ground. Bumps may have helped the launch. Tires used at the time would have been a Pro race Michelin. Stoker weight's a guess but I'll say 125.

uspspro

I used the HyRd, and had the issues mentioned by AKexpress. We were both early adopters for using that brake on tandems. I understand the risks, and I was uncomfortable with the results I had, and the way TRP handled the same results with AKexpress when he contacted them... Thus it was pulled off my bike.

Like I said, TRP is developing products based on great ideas, that fill a market void. I think that the overall design principles are good. However, IMHO, they released some of these products with flaws. First, the carbon-armed Spyre... It's just a stupid idea (sorry if this comes across blunt). Like Ritterview said, there may very well be Clydes bombing descents using these (with even smaller rotors), which introduces similar thermal loads as a light tandem team - So this is not just tandems assuming the risk of "non-tandem rated" parts. The actuating arm of a brake caliper is just not a smart place to save weight (or sacrifice function for vanity). You can try to blame consumers for choosing the carbon arm model, but how are they supposed to know that it's not strong enough? When it comes to brakes, they are trusting the manufacturer to build a part that stand up to normal use PLUS headroom for extreme circumstances, etc...

I'm glad that the aluminum Spyre seems to be a great product thus far, and I wish them success with that product. A mech disc better than the BB7 is something that we all have wanted for a long time.

Hopefully TRP evaluates the carbon arm Spyre (and pulls it from the shelves). I also hope they revise the HyRd, since that would have been a great brake if it were not for the fluid return issue.

I hope to help the community, by trying new products. I tried the HyRd, and I had issues with it. Currently I am using the SRAM road full hydraulic disc / lever setup, and it is doing amazing. I will be posting a full review shortly.

akexpress 

I am going to be an early adopter again. This time with the new Shimano Ultegra DI2 hydraulic shifter and road caliper. I spent considerable time talking to Shimano tech reps at Interbike and played around with the new brakes and rode the singles they had equipped them with. The brakes have great modulation and seem very powerful. The only glitch is Shimano doesn't make long enough hoses for the tandem. This can be worked around with aftermarket hoses from Goodrich or Jagwire. The calipers are basically XT's so there are lots of pad choices and they have the vented finned pads available for heat dissipation. The calipers have ceramic pistons again for good heat management. Shimano's mineral oil has a higher boiling point then DOT4 fluid and does not absorb water. I still will not use Ice rotors at this time due to my past failure. Off course this is only available if you ride DI2. As we have a coupled Calfee I will have to remove the caliper and coil the hose when the bike is apart. We have a coupled mtn tandem and already do this so it is not a big issue in my experience. The brakes have a very easy bleed procedure. It will be important to monitor heat at the hydraulic fitting on the caliper end of the hose so it does not fail. Hydraulic brakes on road bikes were everywhere at Interbike so that should open more options to the tandem community in the future although as evidenced by the past few will endorse their brakes for tandem use. Shimano says you will be able to buy only one shifter so I will only buy the right shifter as I have a caliper on the front for now. On a side note there was quite a bit of talk that Shimano may be working on a triple DI2 (DI3?) I was also able to speak directly to the guys at TRD about the Hy/Rd and the consensus is that for tandems the return spring in the caliper is not able to pull the extra tension on the cable to return the lever back completely therefore over time the hydraulics don't work correctly and also this doesn't allow the system to adjust itself for pad wear. Adjusting the barrel adjuster actually makes it worse for these issues. I may try a helper spring after all while I wait for the Shimano system to be available.

uspspro

I ran into similar issues with the SRAM road disc. It came with an 1800mm hose - not long enough. I went to the LBS (mtb) and got what looked to be a compatible Avid hose, but the lever (master cyl) end was slightly different. I found that SRAM sold a 2000m road hydraulic hose online. That worked perfectly.

fietsbob

Wondering, I like the Magura Hydro rim brakes, they will daisy chain, because they are a closed system..

so there is a potential to use the doubled line from the lever, like the dual cable tandem brakes of old..

and the disc drag brake from a separate lever..




Or.. you trust the stoker enough, to give them a brake_lever ?

Ritterview

Side note? That is tandem forum headline news! I am surprised that the word triple is even mentioned at Interbike, save for sotto voice.

akexpress 

Also a long cage DI2 Ultegra derailluer that is approved for 32 rear cassette but tech guys think it will work with a 36 so it would alleviate the need for a K-Edge long cage modification . Supposedly available after the first of the year. Shimano is moving toward lots of electronic shifting Dura Ace, Ultegra and now Alfine and most parts interchangeable at least shifting anyway.

akexpress 

New Shimano road stuff is basically repackaged XT so the fittings are readily available just no long hoses not even in the downhill line at this time.

Dean V

You couldn't run two calipers from one lever. The master cylinder would be too small resulting in too much lever travel.

ruthness

Yeah the SRAM Road is just like Avid at the caliper (Juicy, IIRC), but the lever end had a slightly different shape, and wouldn't work.

Marco (uspspro), under Ruth's account

fietsbob

that could be compensated in the pad to rim adjustment... set up.

been running HS33's for 6+ years on a single .. none better. IMO.

at least in rim brakes...

PMK

Yes you might pull the brake blocks closer to compensate, but the hydraulic ratios will be fairly poor. I too have run Magura rim brakes both on singles and tandems. It may work for you and your application, but our road tandem will not be going from discs to rim brakes ever.

PK

fietsbob

still my question, persists ...
Or.. you trust the stoker enough, to give them a brake_lever ?

Carbonfiberboy 

Since the 3rd brake is used as a drag, the captain can handle it as a bar-end. Many teams do give the stoker the drag lever. My stoker doesn't want it. Tandems brake best on long descents by using the front and rear brakes alternately, so joining them is contraindicated.

Turbotandem

It's not an issue of trust. It's an issue of what the stoker can see on the road ahead; corners, potholes, shadows, traffic.
When I had a drag brake I liked it and used it for certain conditions, and at other times let the tandem run since I could see what was safe in front of me. For some teams maybe there is a tactile advantage for the stoker to have that control. But practically speaking the captain would be shouting out for the brake on and off, a little more a little less, and so on making more fuss than necessary.

Turbotandem

I had a conversation with TRP who was informed about Ritterview's failure. FYI, they were here in my home town Boulder for the big Cyclo-cross races.
In case you find yourself in this discussion with TRP, it was suggested the reason Ritterview's Spyre SL arm failure was unique to the case where the front brake was not engaged and was on a tandem. I argued that one typically uses the rear brake alone for this sort of descent, even when the front brake is available. And in any case, the pulling force induced on the SL arm with a brake lever is based on the brake levers ability, not based on how many brakes, 1, 2, 3 or a dozen, happen to be on the bike, nor is the force from your brake levers affected by how much the bike weights. There is no greater force available from your brake levers onto the brake arm, when the weight of the bike is increased. That would be a SWEET brake lever if it knew how much the bike weighted and gave you more braking power!

akexpress 

So it seems once again that TRP doesn't really want to be hear about real world experience and come up with solutions .

Mark
Anchorage, Ak

Turbotandem

We all hear attribute to TRP an attitude we are actually getting conveyed from their local USA sales rep. I don't think anything is done in the US except sell the products.

I'd like to think if we were more in contact with the R&D and designers (in Asia?) that we would find TRP is more thoughtful than we are giving them credit. To have produced a novel disc caliper that is to a large degree one of the best currently in the market (recent failures not withstanding) someone at TRP is doing things right. The fact that we as consumers are divorced from that branch of TRP gives us a poor impression of a company that just sells parts and doesn't want to hear from users. I remain bullish on the Spyre and TRP. I suspect if any end user call shimano (or insert name of any worldwide company) with a technical recommendation like strengthening a return spring for a tandem hydraulic reservoir, they would add that random suggestion to the circular file (trash) as well. TRP also makes one of the top 5 caliper rim brakes, which I loved on our last bike. TRP may regret being first to market with the dual caliper, given it is not quite perfect. "Not quite perfect" is seen by many as a complete failure, at least for a brake.

akexpress 

I agree it is probably the Us distributor is the non responsive party in these cases. I also actually like the Hy/Rd brake when it is working as designed and am going to add an assist spring to see if that solves the issues.

robmitchell

Hi,

I tried the hyrd model and had it removed during Cycle Oregon on the 3rd day. We liked it when it was working and used it for the week long Ride Idaho event in August. It would work but then at the bottom of the hill it would barely engage with the lever pulled all the way to the bar. On Cycle Oregon it was the same and the mechanic I talked with knew little about it so he put the avid back on I had packed with me.

I may try to exchange it for the mechanical model or sell it to a single bike rider.

I have hopes for the new Shimano even if it means converting to the electronic set up. I have it on my single road bike and really like it.

Rob