robmitchell

Hi,

Any updates on the new brake from TRP?
I have my hopes up for a better brake.

I have the Avid BB7 on the rear and rim brake on the front right now, but would like to upgrade.

Please include team weight, lengthy descents, and comparison to other brakes used.

Thanks,
Rob

Chris_W

This thread is more specifically about the TRP Spyre brake according to the title, but TRP's other new brake, the HyRd has received a very positive review at road.cc.

jacks1071

Soon as someone comes up with a way to mount these onto a road tandem I'll lay some $$ down. I just don't see that the other options are enough of an improvement on the bengals to justify the upgrade although the TRP hydraulic setup is interesting.

Turbotandem

Spread 130mm frame to 132.5 and squared drop outs at that point (thanks Dave!)
The intention is to use the 135mm disc wheel during ultra events that could have rain on mountain passes, and go back to 130mm rim brake wheels for road race season in the fall.

Disc rear wheel is Kinlin 279 rim, 32h, Sapim CX-Ray spokes, American Classic 225 hub 6 bolt, Maxxis fly weight tape and tube, 25mm gator skins
Alternate Rim brake rear wheel is Kinlin 380, 24h, Sapim CX-Ray spokes on Alchemy ORC hub 2012, velox and standard tube weights for withstanding high rim heat, 25mm gator skins
wheel weights come out effectively the same. The AC hub was the best at 225g and very large flanges for a strong wheel build given the narrower hub flange spacing. I considered the DT Swiss or Shimano XTR, both center lock, but both heavier and neither with adequate flange diameter to satisfy the tandem wheel strength needs.

Icetech 203mm rotor
Paketa replaceable disc brake drop out
Da Vincie cable joiner to make swap of brakes easy (fitting just in front of the stoker's seat.
ti bolt replacements throughout except for TRP cable binding bolt that is unique

Install adds 9 oz to the bike. The brake seems to ride nicely without chattering on the disc.
Note the tight clearance on chain stay, but still clears. A bit of clear electric tape on stay to prevent scuffing the paint when the wheel comes on and off. Our frame has a steep chain stay angle so the clearance has nothing to spare!

uspspro

Now that the pads are mostly broken-in, I am liking the Hy/Rd. I will have a more detailed review with actual temperature data logs (rotor and caliper/fluid housing) after some more break-in miles. Stay tuned!

Ritterview

Yeah, but your actual temperature data logs will feature forced convection to a greater degree than any other cyclist.

twocicle

I'm interested to hear more feedback about those Kinlin 279 rims with the 25mm skins mounted.

Turbotandem

update:
I fussed with the caliper alignment a nit and got it to ride a bit more snug without rubbing the disc and am now happy with the feel of the brake lever. A nice tight closure without bottoming out the lever. Next test, this ride coming Saturday June 29 should be a good one.

As for the rim, several of the power tandem teams in my area have been riding the zipp 101 and American Classic Argent, all based on the 23mm rim width and new thinking in aero profile. And the teams are using the 25mm gator. The kinlin XC 279, or actually the BHS C427W as the same rim from purchased by BHS from Kinlin and sold under the The Bike Hub Store brand, were more suited to a custom wheel and more affordable than the others. The Kinlin was not available in 32h, while BHS were in 32h. Much as I love the 24 spoke rim brake wheel set, for a disc brake wheel on a tandem 32h is more appropriate. Going from rim brake to disc I had the option to switch to carbon rim, but the only sections tandem rated are very deep and the winds around hear are too feirce for me to handle such deep rims. And I am not fond of the sound of carbon rims rolling. So the 279 was a good option.

The tire mounts up well. The height of the 25mm tire is effectively the same height as when on a narrower rim. I'd expected the profile to flatten a bit, but really the 25mm is right at the size where it just takes on a smooth oval shape instead of an ogie shape bulged at the sides, but results in a nearly identical height off the rim. Mounting a 28mm, the profile does come out about 1mm shorter, which is nice for frame clearance for those races we do that involve gravel sections or really bad roads! I suspect a 23mm would be quite flattened.

colotandem

We are running a similar set up using the same rims, but with 28mm gatorskins. As we get some miles on the new wheel set and the TRP HY/RD, I'll provide some feedback.

Ritterview

A review from the Commuting forum of the TRP HY/RD

Review: TRP HY/RD brakes

uspspro

I was all set to conduct the temperature logging tests. Unfortunately (during a routine local ride) I struck a very large, very pointed rock, at around 30-35 mph and had a double tire blowout, and slightly bent my front rim.

So I had to order a new rim, and then I built it up with my "old" hub/spokes. I also got some Schwalbe Ultremo ZX 28mm tires to try. The tandem is back in action again. I already figured out the bracketry for the IR temp sensor, using stuff I have in the garage. Will get it done in the next couple of weeks.

Ritterview

So, what do you think? On a table smooth road there might be a slight increase in rolling resistance, but the real world is more like that dang cheap seal on Skyline, a single encounter is sufficient to elicit the order for 28's.



The question is, if you were to again participate in RAAM, would you opt for Conti GP4000S 25's again, or Ultremo ZX 28's?


Back to the thread topic. The TRP Spyre had been unavailable since late June (I know, because I tried to order one). Luckily, I didn't order too soon, because TRP has already done an early update so to at least give the impression of more power. It sounds like this might be helpful for my throw-challenged Campy levers. The Spyres are back in stock, and I've ordered an SLC version.

TRP...UPDATES SPYRE MECHANICAL CALIPERS

Chris_W

Apparently, if you bought a Spyre brake then you already have the "updated" version. Here's what Tyler said in response to a question about this in the comments:

"According to TRP’s reps, all of the Spyres that actually shipped were with the redesign…they made the change before starting full production."

Ritterview

Have installed my TRP Spyre SLC, and will use it in anger for the first time tomorrow.



It looks much cleaner than the BB7. No plastic bits to melt on Mt. Ventoux.

It does appear to engage even with the lesser throw of the Campy levers. The Avid BB7 required a SideTrak Brake Power Booster in order to get the BB7 to engage before the last 1/2 inch of the lever pull.



Sidetrak apparently is defunct, here is the packaging.

colotandem

It appears that you are using a Shimano Ice Tech Rotor - see below for what may be a highly unusual outcome.

I have yet to craft a full report regarding our TRP HD/RD, but here's the cliff notes. Brake works great! Stopping power very good, modulation seems much better than the Avid BB7 and an overall design that just makes sense to me.

Important to note for those using Shimano ICE Tech rotors - the aluminum core compound of the rotor braking surface can actually melt! We had rotor issues on Mt Ventoux last week. No melting of any caliper related parts and no boiling of hydraulic fluid. But the rotor was toast! I'll post pictures up later.

I will say that the rotor failure very likely due to user error in that I used mostly rear brake (against my better judgement) saving the front brake. Now I'd be the first to tell you that this is not the best way to brake on a long descent. I was given some bad advice (to which I followed) to use the only the rear disc to brake and save the front rim brake for emergency stopping if the rear disc faded quickly. Now the logic may be that this would be the "safest" way to descend in that you will be able to safely stop. Safety at the cost of burning up your rear brake is probably a good hierarchy, but in retrospect, I feel that I could have used both brakes like I normally would have and then stopped to let the brakes cool down if they began to fade. Instead, the rear rotor got so hot that it melted...

It sounds like fiction but it is not, here's a photo



More photos available, but I need to figure out how to share a link to the photobucket album...

Heidelfix

The german "Bike" Magazine (MTB) undertook a test of a number of Disk-Breaks in its May- or June-Edition. They found, too, that the Shimano ICE Tech Rotors when tested for heat tolerance do fail quite early because of the aluminium core melting...

Ritterview

A possible solution for this overheating/melting is the RT99 finned rotor, however it is not yet supplied in a 6 bolt.

waynesulak

I wonder what alloy is used. Aluminum is used for Car engine blocks after all.

6000 series aluminum melts at over 1000 F.

https://people.bu.edu/apl/Home.html

Werkin

I assume you are referring to this article https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/..._beim_Test.pdf If you know of an English language version, please share a link.

Heidelfix

I referred to exactly this magazine ("BIKE"), but the article you offered a link to is from 12/10, i.e. December 2010. There was another test in June this year (BIKE 06/13) where again a range of disk brakes were tested. Shimano xt-brakes were testet with Ice-Tech rotors and their performance (in terms of heat-resistance) again was very disappointing: They then tested the xt with the shimano steel rotors, but that improved the performance only marginally. In other fields of performance like modulation or brake-power the shimano fared well, but in the field "heat-resistance" the xt with Ice-Tech rotors scored only 1/6 (160mm) and 2/6 (180mm). They wrote: "It has problems even with a 75kg man". The slx was tested with steel rotors and scored badly, too, becaude of early onset fading: 2/6 (180mm) and 3/6 (203mm).

I´m in the process of building up our new (first) tandem and the Shimano brakes with Ice-Tech looked very attractive to me, but obviously they do have a heat problem. I´m pretty much decided now that I will use a Magura.

Sorry, I can´t offer a link, but that issue of the magazine should also be trouvable at dropbox under "Bike 2013 06.pdf"

2frmMI

Don't know what to say except that we descended Ventoux last summer using the then-new Ice-Tech rotor with great results, no fade, no melting. It performed better than the Avid Roundagon we had used previously on similar descents. Used as drag brake, 310 lb riders, probably 45 lbs of bike and gear.

colotandem

FWIW - I have had good results with Magura brakes on our MTB tandem. I have definitely turned the rotor shades of blue and some minor warping on some long descents, but no melted parts. I also believe that the comparison of the heat build up on road vs. mtb is "apples and oranges". By definition, we don't reach the same speeds on a mtb and tend to scrub our speed more frequently. So results on a road tandem will be different. I am still a fan of the TRP vs. Avid BB7 at this point. I think it's just a matter of utilizing a different rotor and also braking technique (which I am ashamed to admit as I would not call myself a novice).

I have had good results with the Hope 2 piece rotors and the Magura Storm rotor. Also, if you can still find it, the Magura Venti disc is a good two piece rotor as well. I decided to give the Ice Tech rotor a shot b/c it is marketed to reduce heat. I had not read about the melting problem until after we melted ours.

brons2

Scary! How did you get stopped?

colotandem

It's possible that we had a highly unusual failure. We are a relatively light weight team. When you say that you used as a drag brake, is that to mean that you kept the brake ON and did not let yourself get up to very high speed? Were you sharing the load between front and rear? I'm mostly curious and happy to take this offline or to the Mt Ventoux brake thread as this is the TRP brake thread... How do you post a link to another thread?

Ritterview

We've got a couple of rides in now with the TRP Spyre SLC, including a moderate descent this morning.

And it is two thumbs up for both captain and stoker on this brake.

I cannot make a direct comparison to the Avid BB7, as with Campy levers, the BB7 required the Brake Power Booster to operate acceptably. The BPB provided earlier engagement, but may have robbed of some power. The Spyre SLC has a direct cable line. Its engagement is nearly as early with the BB7 with the BPB. With further lever action I am not flexing the BPB, and so the cable pulls directly on the brake arm.

Given this arrangement, it appears to me that the Spyre is at least as powerful as the BPB assisted BB7. Modulation is better, and it is shhh! vewwy, vewwy ...we are hunting wabbits quiet. I think the rotor likes being squeezed between two pistons much more than being pinned down by one piston to the BB7's immobile base.

Some pics from this AM:

• The Spyre is much cleaner and unified in appearance than the BB7. The single arm of the BB7 betrays its single piston function, wheareas the arching arm of the Spyre appears stronger and functional.
• The Spyre is narrower, and it appears that it would interfere less with a rear rack.
• No chintzy half-melted red plastic knobs on the Spyre.
• The descent as you can see wasn't the most formidible, but its the best I can find with an hour to work with. We'll do some real descending on Saturday.
• Anyone ordering a Spyre, do so on the phone [TOLL FREE: 1-877-807-4162] with TRP, and let them know its for a tandem. It may be that until road discs become more popular that tandems could represent a significant part of the demand for mechanical disc brakes. It would be good for the cause of tandems that for at least one component tandems play a more important role than expected!