zonatandem

How many and what kind of tandems have you owned + comments.
What would you like to own and why?

Trsnrtr

1983 - '78 Motebecane for a summer (a slug, but got my wife and I riding a tandem)

1988 - '79 Schwinn Paramount (dual men's version, cornered on a dime, was a noodle in a sprint)

1991 - '91 Rodriquez AL w/26" wheels. (Total P.O.S. owned it for 500 miles)

1992 - '92 Santana Noventa, all Campy. (Beautiful bike, loved it, rode it 30k miles, sold it and miss it dearly)

2002 - '02 AL Santana Sovereign, diamond red finish, Shimano wheels (Pretty bike and a nice riding machine. A little more subdued handling than the Paramount and the Noventa)

DocF

What we have: 2003 Cannondale MT800. It was the only tandem we could afford that would fit my wife and me.

What I really would like to have: Something titanium. I've not seen one of their tandems, but I am very impressed with Seven's half bikes.

I guess I became infatuated with titanium when I was stooging on the Dowker-Soltow titanium roadster sprint car. It was so good it was made illegal.

Doc

zonatandem

1: 1975 Follis. Rode it for 2 years; learned how to tandem on this bike. Also learned what we liked/disliked and then designed our first custom tandem.
2: 1977 Assenmacher, full custom male/ladyback. One of the lightest tandems in its time at 34 1/2 lbs (when others were building 'light' 45 lb tandems). Built out of Reynolds 531 racing tubing/531 fork. Chromed rear triangle/fork. Fast, light, very maneuverable. 60 1/4 inch wheelbase with bent rear seattube and toeclip overlap. Rode it for 64,000 miles. A real great 'go fast' machine!
3:1984 Colian, custom male/ladyback. 531 racing tubing except for oversize down tube. Handmade chromed lugs. Stretched wheelbase to 63 1/2 inches. A rolling work of art. Rode as good as it looked.
4: 1993 Co-Motion custom male/ladyback. Tange Prestige tubing. Chromed rear triangle/fork. Nice handling/riding. Custom airbrushed desert scene on the oval boob tube .
5: 2003 Zona Davis Double carbon fiber tandem. Custom/prototype c/f adjustable stoker stem, rear rack and stoker handrests. Very light (26 1/2 lbs without pedals and 'stuff') 30 lbs ready to roll. Light, compact, easy to climb with and great handling.

Having ridden over 30+ brands/models of tandems in steel, alu, ti and carbon fiber; we believe c/f is the sleeping giant for tandems.

bentbaggerlen

Hmmm, lets see not sure of the years so I start with the newest bikes first.
Longbikes, Gulfstream LWB/USS recumbent. Mostly XT and a little 105 used for touring. Racks and fenders. SON hub
Organic Engines Trioka tandem recumbent tandem trike. XT/105 mix, Avid disks with 203mm rotors
Rans Screamer SWB/ASS recumbent Mostly XT and a little 105 used for touring. Racks and fenders. SON hub
Santana Sovereign-Used for one "light" tour problem with broken axels (4 in 1500 miles) due to bad frame alinement returned to builder.
Cannondale MTB tandem all XT have used Holston PDS fork untill I broke it, Then a MOTO 120, broke that too, now has a FR100 fork.
Burley Duet, Phil hubs XT/105
Trek T2000, switched to drop bars and used for touring.

keffner

My girlfriend and I purchased our 1st tandem, a Raleigh Companion. This entry-level bike does the trick for us. I got a deal on it for little over $500. We researched the internet and saw that through other reviews that there was a factory defect that causes blowouts in the first 20-100 miles. I upgraded to serfas drifter tires (inverted tread) and has a stout sidewall. We also upgraded the brakes to Shimano XT v-brakes.
We decided to keep the seats, even though most upgrade them that buy a Companion. oh yeah those comfort platform pedals went first, replaced by cage pedals with toe straps for the stoker. We may even upgrade the comfort grips in the future. Sounds like i could have gotten a more expensive bike for the money I have in upgrades on this bike-------we love it! This is all the bike one or two need as recreational riders which we are for now. BEWARE--------if planning to buy a tandem---------please rent one first and see how compatible you two are ......a tandem may not be every couples cup of tea.

Retro Grouch 

Our first tandem is a story unto itself. At the time, we had a lot of kids and not much money. My only recreation was bicycling with our neighbor, but my wife's first group ride almost ended in disaster. A friend was moving out-of-town and asked if I wanted their old tandem bicycle. It was a Schwinn Twinn coaster brake bike that had been left out in the rain. The frame was OK but everything else was badly rusted. The FIRST person I talked to about picking up a pair of wheels said "I have just what you need." His father had taken a Schwinn Twinn 5-speed and replaced all of the components with lighter weight parts. He sold me everything for $30.00. That sounds pretty cheap, but at the time, $30.00 was a lot of money for me to spend. I swallowed hard, bought the stuff and I managed to cobble together a bike that didn't fit either of us but which my wife and I could at least ride together. We rode it a lot. There were people who openly skoffed, but we were on the road and we were having fun together.

We rode that bike together for about 7 or 8 years. Eventually we came up with a car that we didn't need and were able to sell it for enough to buy our first Santana. We paid $1400.00 for an '84 Santana Elan and thought that was all of the money in the whole world. Our kids and both sets parents thought we had gone crazy.

Eventually we did go crazy and started our own (ill fated) bike shop. At that time in our life, our family was splintering with everyone going their own way. The bike shop pulled us all together again as a family. I'm very glad that we did it. The bikes got a little better during that period and we bought first a Santana Arriva and, when I found a customer who needed our Arriva more than we did, traded up to the Noventa that we have today.

I eventually sold the Schwinn to a family who had a blind daughter for $200.00. They were grateful for the deal. I think back fondly to that bike every once in a while. To me it is pretty clear evidence that God does exist and does make things possible that change our lives.

TandemGeek

What we've owned:

1. '96 Santana Arriva: Steel frame and immediately upgraded bar-cons/brakes to Sachs P5000 Ergo shifting, rims from Araya to Mavic T217, brakes to XT canti's with bigger pads, and tires from Armadillos to Vredestein Fortezza. Total sunk cost around $3,750. Great first tandem with very good customer support from Santana, and strong re-sale value. Weight with pedals, etc. was about 39.5lbs. Weaknesses: A bit pricey in '97 even discounted as NOS, but the gap has diminished over time and pricing is now more in line with similar products offered by other brands. Ultimately decided we wanted custom sizing and more aggressive performance and after 4,000 miles of use replaced it with a custom tandem in Dec. 98. Sold via the www.tandemmag.com/ TCA Classifieds to a couple in El Paso, TX, in '98 for around $2,950.

2. '98 Cannondale MT3000: 6061 Alu off-road tandem frame with Moto FR-T dual crown fork, SRAM GripShift, Coda (Hugi) hubs/Sun Rims & XT V-brakes (not the OEM Magura HS-33). Immediately upgraded FD to different pull geometry and Sugino chain rings to RaceFace but was otherwise pleased as punch with bike that was purchased second hand via the Internet for $1,850. Weight with pedals, etc... was about 45lbs with 2.1" XC tires. Only weakness was Coda (Hugi) rear hub which shredded with only a few hundred miles of use and replaced with Shimano hub/Sun rim. Hardtail with shock post was very hard on Debbie's back given lots of aggressive riding on rugged singletrack in North Georgia and ultimately replaced after ~250 off-road miles by a NOS Ventana El Conquistador de Montanas (ECdM) in Feb '00. Sold via www.tandemmag.com/TCA Classifieds to couple in southern New Hampshire in '00 for about what I paid for it.

3. '98/'99 Erickson Signature: A one-off steel custom from Glenn Erickson in Seattle, WA. Ordered in June '98 and received 23 Dec '98. Features very short front end with 31" long stoker top tube and very aggressive geometry tailored to our size and riding style. Component package is True Temper Alpha Q XT carbon fork, Campy Chorus Ergo 9 shifters, Campy brakes & deraillers, daVinci cranks, and Phil Wood/Mavic or White Ind/Velocity wheelsets with Shimano 9 spd cassettes. About $6,400 in '98 and no regrets. Great tandem that continues to meet and exceed our expectations. Not superlight these days at 35.5lbs considering it's a very small frame, but good enough with some 18k miles of use thus far and going strong.

4. NOS '97 Ventana El Conquistador de Montanas (ECdM): 6061 alu full suspension frame with 3.5" of rear travel. Found on the internet as a frame only around Christmas '99 for $1,000. Was NOS frame lost by UPS who paid off the shipper and was eventually sold to someone in South Dakota at a UPS auction after UPS discovered it bouncing around in a truck somewhere. Refinished and upgraded with a '00 rear swingarm and built up with a Stratos FR-5T fork, Shimano XT components, Hope O4DH hydraulic brakes, daVinci cranks, Hope hub/Velocity Aeroheat AT wheelset: total investment ~$3,500 after all said and done. Weight with pedals, etc... was about 46lbs with 2.1" XC tires. Great full-suspension tandem!! After about 500mi of use, decided it would be more cost effective to sell and replace entire tandem vs upgrading wheels, brakes, fork and other components and red really was never my color. Sold via Ebay to couple in Sacramento, CA, in '02 for $2,900 and replaced by '02 Ventana ECdM.

5. '02 Erickson Custom Travel Tandem: A one-off steel custom from Glenn Erickson in Seattle, WA equipped with S&S couplers to allow break-down for travel. Ordered in Oct '00 and received in Apr '02 (not a typo; there's a story & we weren't in a hurry). Pretty much identical to our '98 Erickson Signature except for the paint scheme, couplers, TIG weld vs fillet-brazed joints, and some minor adjustments in geometry for the carbon fork height. About $6,800 in '02 (not including cases) and no regrets. Great tandem that continues to meet and exceed our expectations. Not superlight at 37.5lbs with couplers added, but good enough with some 5k miles of use thus far and going strong.

6. '02 Ventana El Conquistador de Montanas (ECdM): 6061 alu full suspension frame with custom geometry and 4" of rear-travel. Replacement rig for '00 model. Adjusted replacement cost today is ~$6,000 outfitted with Stratos S-5T fork, Hope Enduro discs, Chris King/Velocity wheelset, Easton CT-2 carbon bars, Shimano transmission & RaceFace cranks (swapped with daVinci cranks on '00 ECdM prior to its sale). Weight with pedals, etc... is about 45lbs with 2.4" DH tires. Although it hasn't seen a lot of use, it's a great tandem. Couple of nits with the frame required a new rear-swingarm under warranty which yielded a problem with the rear pivot, the Fox RL shock was from a defective lot with bad seals that needed attention, and we also discovered that we had a problem with a rocker arm frame mount that needed to be fixed with a heli-coil. However, that's about it.

As Rudy notes, I've also fiddled with a lot of other tandem brands and models before and after actually becoming a bonified owner.

What would we like to own?

We've got them hanging in the garage right now! Seriously, we're pretty sure we have the ones that we want/need for the long haul to meet out immediate needs. About the only tandem that I'd add to the stable if I had the $$ laying around would be a Co-Motion custom convertible Quint, i.e., a Quint built with S&S couplers at each segment that would allow reconfiguration as a tandem, triplet, quad, or quint so that we could take our friends, parents, kids, and grandkids out for a ride now and again as well as for special events.

In a perfect world?

Beyond the reality of meeting needs, in a perfect post-lottery winning world I'd probably end up with a very full stable of frames -- some that would just go on display as wall art and others that would be purpose built. Of the current models that are on the market that I'd like to have access to for extended test rides (30 days should do), the list would include:

Road Tandems
- Calfee Tetra Tetra (carbon)
- Seven 007 Axiom Ti (titanium)
- Santana Beyond (carbon/ti)
- Co-Motion Robusta (Alum)
- ariZona (carbon)
- Bohemian (steel)
- Bruni (steel)

Off-Road Tandems:
- Boulder (aluminum)
- Chumba Wumba (aluminum)
- Nicolai (aluminum)
- Santana Dual Moto (carbon/ti)

spacerconrad

Santana Arriva. Jim at Richardson Bike Mart sold it to us for about $900, in excellent condition, and warned us that we'd be back for something slicker later.
Maybe there's a little retro-grouch hidden in our souls, but the purple Arriva has embarassed quite a few racer wannabe's and is extremely smooth on any surface we've cared to cycle.
I'm often accused of being overly competitive on a bike, but I must remind my Rear Admiral of the times we'd hear comments like "Hey, free ride!" and I've felt the sheer power of her pride in my pedals. Poor guy never stood a chance.
Part of the family now, not much we can do about it now

joe@vwvortex

First tandem was a custom Riedel Road Tandem built by Ian Riedel who was a builder for Ibis - in fact it was built with Ibis Moron Tubing and dropouts. It as really nice in terms of frame construction and paint etc. It was built with Campy Record 8 speed shifters on Campy Record triple derailleurs with Specialized forged cranks, Avid V brakes, Aria Drum and custom wheels with Hugi hubs.

Current ride is a CoMotion Speester/Supremo hybrid - basically a Supremo with Vbrakes. Purchased both the steel front fork and Woundup Carbon. Has full brazeons for racks and fenders and I've got two different rear clusters -11-27 and 11-34 so I can set it up for major climbs or just the typical club rides etc. We're really enjoying it!

bassplayinbiker

I have owned 2 and had total rights to another one.

1. burley hardrock

2 home built ( failed attempt, but good experience for me)

3. homebuilt revised eddition. ( works awesomely best ride i have felt)
pic below

TandemGeek

Sanity Check: Are you the same 'bassplayinbiker' who started the Tuba thread?

If so, you've reinstilled my faith in the future... Good-on-you to have a wide variety of interests and the necessary support to pursue them with such gusto.

bassplayinbiker

yes im the same bastard who wants to learn how to do everything.

I built that bike up there, The only help i had was havin my hill billy friend weld it for me.


there is hope.

cornucopia72

1994?-present Burley Duet. Bought it used. Nice bike but heavy and with outdated components. Do not plan to sell it. We keep it wraped in plastic and ready for some visitors that feel like taking a ride.

2004-present Santana Sovering. We love it. It was worth every penny. Do not plan on upgrading.... unless the stock market takes a positive turn or we win the lottery. The way things are going and since we do not buy lottery thickets... chances are it is going to be our ride for a long time.

2intexas

I briefly shared an old Paramount track tandem that had been converted to road use back in the late 70s-early 80s. Road it in informal club events, including the first GASP (Great Austin-Shiner Pedal). We motored on that stiff, close-coupled SOB like nobody's business. Didn't ride another tandem for twenty years until I bought my Santana Arriva -- a demo -- from the Santana factory via eBay last spring. What a civilized machine, after that instrument of torture that had originally been brazed together, I understand, for the Mexico City Olympics (the Schwinn)!!!

Brian

We have only one, and I don't forsee another any time soon. Custom titanium frame with S&S couplers, SRAM X9 drivetrain, Rhynolites, Avid BBDB's, (soon to be switched to Magura Hydraulics) Shimano XT 203mm discs, Specialized Body Geometry seats, ATC Racing fork (looking for a Marzocchi DJ) and lots of custom bits and bolts in Ti. Also has extra cable guides in place, should we decide to turn it into a road bike. No complaints.

TandemGeek

I've been meaning to ask you this, is this one of the Aerolite tandems or did someone down under fabricate it? I only ask as I don't recall you mentioning the builder's names in any of your posts, but seem to recall that you mentioned Aerolite.

We have some friends in Texas who have an Aerolite who are pretty happy with it -- and it was a complex custom design job.

Brian

Technically it's an Aerolite, but because I went direct through their manufacturer and ordered it custom, I really can't call it an Aerolite. Apparently someone got in trouble for building it too. I have nothing against the company, but it seemed silly to pay the markup if the manufacturer was willing to sell direct.

TandemGeek

Cool. I like that story. Moreover, I think you could safely call it an 'XCD' since Xi'an Changda builds frames for a few marketing companies and does direct marketing on its own. Using the couplers was probably the Aerolite connection that got someone at XCD crossed up with David (aka, Aerolite -- as I think David is the entire company). However, all that notwithstanding, from what I saw of the CAD drawings that David rendered, I'm not sure he adds all that much value to the design process. He strikes me as more or less a marketing guy who knows how do use a CAD program and not a bicycle designer. Probably like you, our friends in Texas really did the design work, then David rendered it into a CAD drawing and shipped it off to XCD who "interpreted" the CAD drawings and executed the frame build.

Do you know if XCD built your tandem with genuine S&S couplers or their own, less expensive S&S-like couplers? From what I've learned, it seems like the XCD couplers didn't show up as an option until just last January. The emergence of the XCD couplers got Aerolite crossways with S&S and caused them to lose their listing as an authorized builder on the S&S web site. I'm not sure if Aerolite is still able to offer coupled bikes and tandems or not or if XCD is still marketing bikes made with its own couplers.

Well, regardless, it looks like a pretty cool rig. Ti is a great material for a travel bike and I suspect the couplers really do a nice job of stiffening up the entire frame vs. a ti frame that was uncoupled. I'm really tempted to replace our aluminum Ventana F/S ECdM with an S&S equipped chromoly Ventana F/S ECdM. Travel tandems are the nuts when it comes to portability. Not to mention, I think it would be pretty slick to have an extra boom tube made that could be swapped out in the event you bashed the one of the tandem. Our boom tube has some really nice flat spots and gouges in it from crossing over trees and steep drop-out and there's not really much I can do about them. On the bright side, the lower part of the boom tube isn't really put under any loads where a dent in the underside weakens the frame. But, just the same, it would be pretty slick to have the ability to be a bit more aggressive with obstacles knowing that you could swap out boom tubes and send the dinged-up one off to a frame shop to be straightend out or replaced.

Brian

David doesn't like me, that's for sure. I don't know if they're genuine S&S couplers, and don't have any way of finding out, but for what they added to the cost, they ought to be. But it's only money... As far as the drawings, I don't think he even does them. XCD sent me the preliminary drawing, and I just made the changes to suit our needs, and that was that. Took a few back and forth emails, but we got what we wanted. I would have liked another set of cable guides on the top tube, and some custom rack mounts on the back, but so far it's been a pleasure to own. It will need some work for touring, but that can wait. And yes, the ride is perfect. Very smooth. I also like the fact that in the worst case, I can have sections replaced rather than the whole frame.

TandemGeek

In retrospect, the drawings did seem to come from XCD; David was just trying to stick his 2 cents in on the design and it was apparent to our friends that he didn't really understand frame design. However, back to the couplers, they seemed to be pretty upfront with customers on genuine vs in-house models and the upgrade to the S&S BTCs was something like $200 - $300. What seemed interesting is that they only produced one size of the in-house coupler (32mm) for use on 1.25" diameter tubing, which -- at least for our friends -- was a barrier to their 26" enduro 4-coupler design which used an open frame (no internal) and oversized 2" boom tube with a 1.5" or 1.75" top and down tube. He didn't quite connect the dots at first when they said they didn't have access to the larger tubing and then hit upon the coupler size constraint. On suggesting that XCD contact S&S to obtain the right size coupler they then allowed that they could produce the frame with the 2" boom tube, but not the larger top or down tube. They had their couplers installed in front of the captain's seat tube and amid-ships similar to how Co-Motion configures their travel tandems such that they can pull off the front end of the tandem without disconnecting the timing chain. There were a few nits with the frame's construction -- minor mis-alignment, weld burn-through on one of the couplers -- but all in all they're very happy with the bike thus far. Super-light, durable finish, and incredibly inexpensive. But, like you, disappointed with David's business accumen and demeanor.

Brian

You've changed your name! I think we paid an extra $600 for 6 couplers, but I'm not sure. And there's 2 different size couplers, with the larger ones on the boom tube. It came with a matching titanium double sided spanner for the couplers. We had none of the problems you mentioned either, but the 203mm discs we ordered from them were absolute rubbish. And the custom handlebars (nice rise with 26inch width) were not pricey, but no bargain. Have you seen the frame right out of the box when it's all polished? What a piece of art! My wife let me keep it in our lounge until the parts from Alex arrived. As far as David, he wouldn't want to know that not only did he lose the sale, but that I'm offering his products for sale in Australia.

TandemGeek

Being different sizes and at the price quoted, they sound like the real McCoy.

Brian

Yeah, they really took care of me, and based on the finish, I'd say they're genuine. If not, nothing I can do. As far as future tandems go, we considered a Ventana, until I took a good look at the daVinci independent pedalling system. That, coupled titanium frame, carbon cranks, Ti wippermans, Rohloff rear, King front hub and headset, Hope 6 pot Ti brakes, and maybe a Maverick fork? My wife calls this our "lottery bike". We don't even need another one, but I like to tinker, and that should keep me busy for a weekend or two.

TandemGeek

Just a couple thoughts...

- daVinci Independent Coasting System (ICS): We may get a chance to play with one if Alex gets his demo from Todd. Looking forward to either seeing how it works by following Alex around or, if the bike's small enough, giving it a go.
- Carbon Cranks: Superlight, but super-easy to nick-up with a tandem off-roading.
- Ti Wipperman: Chez cool, but chez $$$ for something you throw away after a few hundred miles.
- Hope Ti6: Great binders, but haven't heard any long-term reports yet.
- Maverick Fork: Hmmm. Maybe. What's your team weight? One of our regular riding partner teams has the Maverick and at 270lb team weight, they've got them maxed out on air pressure.