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Tandem Cycling A bicycle built for two. Want to find out more about this wonderful world of tandems? Check out this forum to talk with other tandem enthusiasts. Captains and stokers welcome!

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Old 07-16-13, 04:01 PM   #1
DubT
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Frame Drop Spacing changed, HED3 front and rear

I have always liked the HED3 wheels and have used them on two different bikes. I put one on the front of our tandem in January and wanted one on the rear but the spacing was wrong. By replacing the original fixed RD mount with a removable mount I created an opportunity to add spacers to the drops and reduce the spacing from 145 down to 130. I ordered a pair of Calfee titanium drops and modified them by cutting off the tabs where they attach to the chainstays. The LH side was a bolt on using the stock Calfee bolt and the two holes for mounting a disc brake. The RH side was more complicated, I had to drill and tap 3 holes in the titanium drop, a bit of a challenge but with some patience it was accomplished. The new wheel arrived today and I installed the spacers, spaced the wheel a few millimeters and the bike now looks complete. HED3 wheels front and rear.

I will order new titanium fasteners later this evening or tomorrow.

Pictures below.







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Old 07-16-13, 10:14 PM   #2
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Wow! Very, very nice Dub. You inspire the rest of us to think beyond the bike we have.
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Old 07-17-13, 12:16 PM   #3
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nice looking with the new wheels and innovative. However I don't see why you would have needed the replaceable hanger for this setup. In fact you have now defeated the benefit of that replaceable hanger. I think that the drop outs are now so strong the derailleur is the weakest link hopefully. Non the less a great idea to be able to use other spaced wheels when you want. Did the two spacers equal 15mm or so you have to machine them to get the right dimensions.
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Old 07-17-13, 12:56 PM   #4
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nice looking with the new wheels and innovative. However I don't see why you would have needed the replaceable hanger for this setup. In fact you have now defeated the benefit of that replaceable hanger. I think that the drop outs are now so strong the derailleur is the weakest link hopefully. Non the less a great idea to be able to use other spaced wheels when you want. Did the two spacers equal 15mm or so you have to machine them to get the right dimensions.
We are very happy with the appearance, it now looks complete. In order to use the narrower spaced wheel the derailleur hanger had to move inboard so that it will align with the cassette. I still can replace the hanger, all I have to do is get another RH drop from Calfee and modify it.

The dropouts on our bike are right at 6.5mm thick so if the new dropouts would have been 6.5mm thick the spacing would have been 132, however the new parts are just a little over 5mm thick so I have a 135mm opening. I initially installed a washer on each side of the axle on the new wheel which made it fit perfect. When I talked to Steve at Calfee asking him about the difference in the parts he stated that the rear triangle would flex enough so as to not require the washers. I removed the washers and the wheel fits, the rear triangle does in fact flex enough for the quick release to tighten it up. The only downside is that I will have to use the middle ring more than I have in the past as the chain line in the big/big sprockets is a bit extreme.
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Old 07-17-13, 01:37 PM   #5
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Nice modification. Your comment about chain line is well made. There are usually tradeoffs involved with any change and hopefully you have found the approach that makes you enjoy the bike as much as possible.
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Old 07-17-13, 02:18 PM   #6
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Well done Wayne.
I am not familiar with the construction of the shimano tandem cranks. Is the right hand stoker crank interchangeable with a regular right hand shimano crank? If it was you could replace it with that and get the chainline correct. A compact double may cover your gear requirements anyway.
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Old 07-17-13, 05:04 PM   #7
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Well done Wayne.
I am not familiar with the construction of the shimano tandem cranks. Is the right hand stoker crank interchangeable with a regular right hand shimano crank? If it was you could replace it with that and get the chainline correct. A compact double may cover your gear requirements anyway.
Dean, I think that we can live with everything just as it is. It would way too much trouble to change cranks.
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Old 07-17-13, 05:27 PM   #8
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Well done Wayne.
I am not familiar with the construction of the shimano tandem cranks. Is the right hand stoker crank interchangeable with a regular right hand shimano crank? If it was you could replace it with that and get the chainline correct. A compact double may cover your gear requirements anyway.
They are not interchangeable. I explored this when I went to DI2 2X10 and it won't work unfortuately.
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Old 07-17-13, 07:11 PM   #9
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How do you like the ride of those wheels? I used to run a set of HED3s on my calfee and they were just too stiff in combination with my frame. They were great (and fast) if the pavement was smooth but if you hit a bump in a fast corner the ride got pretty exciting. There was just no give. I was running 23's and 25's on mine and I know not all Calfees are identical. Since I race, they might have made mine a little stiffer than normal. I'm pretty sure it was the wheels that caused the handling problems because I don't have those issues with my Topolinos or Zipps.

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Old 07-18-13, 05:13 AM   #10
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How do you like the ride of those wheels? I used to run a set of HED3s on my calfee and they were just too stiff in combination with my frame. They were great (and fast) if the pavement was smooth but if you hit a bump in a fast corner the ride got pretty exciting. There was just no give. I was running 23's and 25's on mine and I know not all Calfees are identical. Since I race, they might have made mine a little stiffer than normal. I'm pretty sure it was the wheels that caused the handling problems because I don't have those issues with my Topolinos or Zipps.

i have used a front HED3 for close to 3,000 miles with no issues, hopefully adding the rear will not prove to be a problem. I will know more in a few days. We did a short 12 mile shakedown ride last night after it cooled off a bit, it seemed fine but we did not corner hard, this time of the year here in the Midwest that are putting light rock on the roads because of the heat. We are going to head out for a ride shortly.
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Old 07-18-13, 11:57 AM   #11
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How do you like the ride of those wheels? I used to run a set of HED3s on my calfee and they were just too stiff in combination with my frame. They were great (and fast) if the pavement was smooth but if you hit a bump in a fast corner the ride got pretty exciting. There was just no give. I was running 23's and 25's on mine and I know not all Calfees are identical. Since I race, they might have made mine a little stiffer than normal. I'm pretty sure it was the wheels that caused the handling problems because I don't have those issues with my Topolinos or Zipps.

We took a nice little 22 mile ride this morning, it was very hot and humid even at 7:00 in the morning, the bike handled fine, no problem. The ride is a little stiffer, I will lower the tire pressure a few pounds and see how that works.
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Old 07-18-13, 12:05 PM   #12
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Let us know how it goes. Just to clarify a little, the handling was really only an issue when going really fast, like over 40mph. I do a lot of fast descents (because of my well developed descending muscles) and it was a bit disconcerting to have the bike skipping over bumps in corners at 50-60 mph. If you're riding around the mid-west you're probably not seeing those speeds often. It'll just be a stiff ride. The bike looks awfully cool with those wheel on it though and they are fast.
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Old 07-18-13, 12:46 PM   #13
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In the past 2 years we have only gone over 40 1 time and that was in Tulsa. I do not see fast down hills at 50-60 MPH in our future. LOL!
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Old 07-18-13, 01:34 PM   #14
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We haven't had any problems with fast descents on Hed 3s. I do not like the front much in strong gusty winds though. Actually find a Zipp 808 easier to manage in the wind than the Hed3.
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Old 07-19-13, 08:18 AM   #15
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On our ride this morning i dropped the air pressure on the front from 117 to 110 and dropped the rear from 120 to 115. The bike rode and felt just like it did with the Spinergy wheels.
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Old 07-19-13, 10:25 AM   #16
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On our ride this morning i dropped the air pressure on the front from 117 to 110 and dropped the rear from 120 to 115. The bike rode and felt just like it did with the Spinergy wheels.
I am understanding correctly that the HED wheels at 100-115 felt the same as Spinergy wheels with tires inflated to about 120 psi?
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Old 07-19-13, 11:52 AM   #17
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I am understanding correctly that the HED wheels at 100-115 felt the same as Spinergy wheels with tires inflated to about 120 psi?
Wayne, I have had a HED3 on the front of our tandem for the last 3,000 + miles, at 120 it is a little harsh, at 117 it is firm but comfortable. On our ride Thursday the front tire was inflated to 117psi and the rear to 120psi. We could both tell that the ride was harsher than what we were experiencing with the HED3 on the front at 117 and the Spinergy on the rear at 120. So as an experiment I set the pressures at 110 and 115, the ride was comparable to the way it rode with the Spinergy rear, tomorrow I will go with 115 and 115 to see how that feels. BTW we rode the exact same route both days and will probably ride that same route tomorrow as those roads have not been chipped and oiled recently.
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