Advertise on Bikeforums.net



User Tag List

Results 1 to 21 of 21
  1. #1
    Hook 'Em Horns
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Austin, Texas
    My Bikes
    Mine: Paul Taylor Custom 66cm, Rivendell custom 68cm, '75 Eisentraut Touring 69cm, 68cm track frame of indeterminate origin, '92 Cannondale M500. Ours: '93 Burley Duet tandem XL. Hers: L Mercier Sora thingy
    Posts
    284
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    40 spokes enough for 450lb team? Handspun HF08/Velocity Dyad?

    I want to upgrade my Burley that I bought to use a casette hub and I was looking at my options on a hub that would accommodate the drum brake. I found the Handspun Pavement Series 9 at TreeFortBikes for $270 and was about to pull the trigger but then I hesitated. Are 40 spokes enough for my team?

    http://www.treefortbikes.com/product...Fevm7AodolUAVA

    I know the Dyad has a reputation of being a pretty tough rim, but still. Should I get a rim with 48 spokes, or with a heavier wheel like a Rhyno Light or Velocity Chukker, or both? We will only be riding on smooth roads with high volume tires, which probably mitigates the need for bombproof gear.

    Am I overthinking this?

  2. #2
    just another gosling Carbonfiberboy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Everett, WA
    My Bikes
    CoMo Speedster 2003, Trek 5200, CAAD 9, Fred 2004
    Posts
    8,080
    Mentioned
    3 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    I'd go with the Chukker. IME rim depth is very important if strength and durability is what's desired. Spoke number not so much. That said, that's a heckuva good price. Threaded hubs are getting harder to find - might have something to do with that price. AFAIK the only other threaded hub option is the expensive Phil Wood. You could run that wheel for a long time, eventually put on a Chukker if you get spokes breaking. Just my $.02.

  3. #3
    Hook 'Em Horns
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Austin, Texas
    My Bikes
    Mine: Paul Taylor Custom 66cm, Rivendell custom 68cm, '75 Eisentraut Touring 69cm, 68cm track frame of indeterminate origin, '92 Cannondale M500. Ours: '93 Burley Duet tandem XL. Hers: L Mercier Sora thingy
    Posts
    284
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I'm going 40/48 with the Rhyno Lite, the Chukker is 2x as much. I guess we'll see how it works out. I ordered the rims and hubs online and will have a trusted LBS build them up. FWIW I decided to try the WheelMaster hubs and not use the drum brake for the initial learning phase. I will probably get another wheelset later anyway, I always like to have more than one. Ordered the rims from Amazon for $63 and the hubs from Green Canyon Outfitters for $76. Looking at spoke options prefer 2.3/2.0 butted in the back and 2.0/1.8 butted in the front maybe $1 per spoke hopefully? Wheelbuild probably $40 per.

    Also ordered an HG-61 12-36, an M-592 long cage, a KMC X9 and some...wait for it...brifters! It was a big evening! Now I need to look at some chainrings.

  4. #4
    Senior Member Paul J's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    Lancaster County PA
    My Bikes
    1982 Eddy Merckx Campy Super Record, 1995 Eddy Merckx 10 sp Campy Centaur, DiamondBack Axis TT, Bushnell Tandem
    Posts
    353
    Mentioned
    3 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    As an FYI as you've already pulled the trigger, we rode 40 hole when we were a 450# team with pretty good results after so initial issues. We had purchased the bike used and early on had broken a couple of spokes so rebuilt the 40 hole wheels with Dyads and they were no problem. We are a little lighter now and riding Deep V's, 36 front 40 rear. I've kept the Dyads and have a drag brake set-up with them which we have available for more extreme rides. Where we live we have some long down hills but haven't needed the drag brake for our typical one-mile or less downhills. With some of the talk of wider being better I have thought about finding someone to sell or trade our Deep V's and build-up a 36/40 set of Dyad's that would then match the wheel sets so we could switch them around easier. Maybe run 32c on the pair with the drag brake and the current 28c on the other.
    1982 Merckx Campy Super Record, 1995 Merckx Campy Centaur 10, DiamondBack Axis TT, (set-up as city bike), Bushnell Tandem

  5. #5
    Hook 'Em Horns
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Austin, Texas
    My Bikes
    Mine: Paul Taylor Custom 66cm, Rivendell custom 68cm, '75 Eisentraut Touring 69cm, 68cm track frame of indeterminate origin, '92 Cannondale M500. Ours: '93 Burley Duet tandem XL. Hers: L Mercier Sora thingy
    Posts
    284
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Paul J View Post
    With some of the talk of wider being better I have thought about finding someone to sell or trade our Deep V's and build-up a 36/40 set of Dyad's that would then match the wheel sets so we could switch them around easier. Maybe run 32c on the pair with the drag brake and the current 28c on the other.
    Just as an FYI I have DeepV's on the back of my Rivendell and my Paul Taylor and have run 30mm Grand Bois on the Rivendell and 28mm Gatorskins on the Paul Taylor, it seems fine to me. I would have tried even bigger tires but that was all the space I had under my brake bridge. I weigh around 270 all by myself and my single bikes are heavy so it's not an unsubstantial load. So I wouldn't automatically assume that you would have to switch out your DeepV's to run say 32s, you might think the bike handles fine even with larger tires on racer-ish rims.

  6. #6
    Senior Member Paul J's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    Lancaster County PA
    My Bikes
    1982 Eddy Merckx Campy Super Record, 1995 Eddy Merckx 10 sp Campy Centaur, DiamondBack Axis TT, Bushnell Tandem
    Posts
    353
    Mentioned
    3 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by brons2 View Post
    Just as an FYI I have DeepV's on the back of my Rivendell and my Paul Taylor and have run 30mm Grand Bois on the Rivendell and 28mm Gatorskins on the Paul Taylor, it seems fine to me. I would have tried even bigger tires but that was all the space I had under my brake bridge. I weigh around 270 all by myself and my single bikes are heavy so it's not an unsubstantial load. So I wouldn't automatically assume that you would have to switch out your DeepV's to run say 32s, you might think the bike handles fine even with larger tires on racer-ish rims.
    I was more thinking about conformity with have both our everyday wheel set and our heavy-er duty wheels using the same rim for easy in switching back and forth and I don't think I experience a significant difference between the Deep V and Dyad though I could be wrong. I have the drag brake set-up with a quick disconnect and so it would be pretty sweet to just flip a QR and change out without having to adjust the brakes.
    1982 Merckx Campy Super Record, 1995 Merckx Campy Centaur 10, DiamondBack Axis TT, (set-up as city bike), Bushnell Tandem

  7. #7
    Nigel nfmisso's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    San Jose, CA
    My Bikes
    1980s and 1990s steel: CyclePro, GT, Nishiki, Schwinn, SR, Trek........
    Posts
    1,003
    Mentioned
    3 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    We're a 500+ lbs team, and run 40/40 Dyad rims, Wheelsmith SS14 spokes and Wheelmaster hubs with Kenda Kwest 35x622 tires.
    Nigel
    Mechanical Design Engineer

  8. #8
    Senior Member zonatandem's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    Tucson, AZ
    My Bikes
    ariZona carbon fiber tandem & single
    Posts
    9,962
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Suggest 40 spokes rear and 36 spokes front.

  9. #9
    Hook 'Em Horns
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Austin, Texas
    My Bikes
    Mine: Paul Taylor Custom 66cm, Rivendell custom 68cm, '75 Eisentraut Touring 69cm, 68cm track frame of indeterminate origin, '92 Cannondale M500. Ours: '93 Burley Duet tandem XL. Hers: L Mercier Sora thingy
    Posts
    284
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by nfmisso View Post
    We're a 500+ lbs team, and run 40/40 Dyad rims, Wheelsmith SS14 spokes and Wheelmaster hubs with Kenda Kwest 35x622 tires.
    No double butted spokes? Interesting. Was that done for cost savings? A quick glace on Google Shopping showed the SS14 are available for as little as $19 for a box of 50. The DH13 2.0/2.3 I have not found for less than $1.30 per spoke(!). The DH14 2.0/1.8/2.0 I have found for $32.05 for a pack of 50.

  10. #10
    Nigel nfmisso's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    San Jose, CA
    My Bikes
    1980s and 1990s steel: CyclePro, GT, Nishiki, Schwinn, SR, Trek........
    Posts
    1,003
    Mentioned
    3 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by brons2 View Post
    No double butted spokes? Interesting. Was that done for cost savings? A quick glace on Google Shopping showed the SS14 are available for as little as $19 for a box of 50. The DH13 2.0/2.3 I have not found for less than $1.30 per spoke(!). The DH14 2.0/1.8/2.0 I have found for $32.05 for a pack of 50.
    Cost and availability.

    I have built wheels in the past with DH13 spokes, and they seem a bit overkill.....

    For a heavy team, IMHO, the ultimate rear wheel is DH13 on the right side, and DB14 on the left side - assuming normal offset on the hub. For the front; DB14 on both sides - with the same spoke count front and rear. If you have a disc brake on front, change to DH13 on the brake side.
    Nigel
    Mechanical Design Engineer

  11. #11
    Hook 'Em Horns
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Austin, Texas
    My Bikes
    Mine: Paul Taylor Custom 66cm, Rivendell custom 68cm, '75 Eisentraut Touring 69cm, 68cm track frame of indeterminate origin, '92 Cannondale M500. Ours: '93 Burley Duet tandem XL. Hers: L Mercier Sora thingy
    Posts
    284
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    well it looks like the wheel master hubs were not available...back to the drawing board...


    1 of WHEEL MASTER HUB RR ALY SF QR 48x135 9sCAS TDM SLD BK [ASIN: B00B136X7O]
    1 of WHEEL MASTER HUB FT ALY SF QR 40H TDM SLD BK [ASIN: B006I9SUHW]

    ------------- Begin message -------------

    Dear Sir/Madam,

    We are contacting you regarding your order. Regretfully, we must inform you it is unable to be fulfilled at this time. We have tried different manufacturers to find a replacement, but at this point, we are only able to refund you in full. No amount of apologies could make up for this.

    Our goal is to provide each customer a shopping experience that exceeds expectations, and we failed to do that for you. Even though only a small percentage of our total orders are ever put in a similar situation, that business is just as appreciated. We hope to have the chance to make it up to you in the future!

    Again, we apologize for the any inconveniences. If you would like to periodically check on Amazon, the item may become available. With any other questions or concerns, please contact us via email or at 877-808-4855.

    Respectfully,
    Green Canyon Outfitters

    Hours of Operation:
    Monday through Sunday
    8:00 A.M. - 8:00 P.M.
    Central Standard Time

  12. #12
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Indianapolis, IN
    My Bikes
    Co-Motion tandem, Serotta, and Specialized mt. bike
    Posts
    344
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I wonder how much longer 48 spoke rims will be available. Velocity is the only rim manufacture, that I know of, who still makes the 48 spokes. Twenty years ago 48 spokes was the standard but they are not seem much today.

    Sheldon Hall

  13. #13
    Nigel nfmisso's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    San Jose, CA
    My Bikes
    1980s and 1990s steel: CyclePro, GT, Nishiki, Schwinn, SR, Trek........
    Posts
    1,003
    Mentioned
    3 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by brons2 View Post
    well it looks like the wheel master hubs were not available...back to the drawing board...


    1 of WHEEL MASTER HUB RR ALY SF QR 48x135 9sCAS TDM SLD BK [ASIN: B00B136X7O]
    1 of WHEEL MASTER HUB FT ALY SF QR 40H TDM SLD BK [ASIN: B006I9SUHW]
    I got mine from Niagara; 40/40.
    http://www.amazon.com/Wheel-Master-A...2&keywords=40h
    http://www.amazon.com/Wheel-Master-F...8&keywords=40h

    I figure 40/40 makes sense because my stoker wife is considerably lighter than I. I also got the Dyad rims from Niagara. I try to bundle things to save on total shipping.
    Nigel
    Mechanical Design Engineer

  14. #14
    Nigel nfmisso's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    San Jose, CA
    My Bikes
    1980s and 1990s steel: CyclePro, GT, Nishiki, Schwinn, SR, Trek........
    Posts
    1,003
    Mentioned
    3 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by tandem rider View Post
    I wonder how much longer 48 spoke rims will be available. Velocity is the only rim manufacture, that I know of, who still makes the 48 spokes. Twenty years ago 48 spokes was the standard but they are not seem much today.

    Sheldon Hall
    And before that, the Taylor brothers (Jack Taylor Cycles) were custom drilling rims to 48 spokes because no company would make them for them. The Taylors got their hubs from Phil Wood, who would make almost anything ordered.
    Nigel
    Mechanical Design Engineer

  15. #15
    coprolite fietsbob's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    NW,Oregon Coast
    My Bikes
    7
    Posts
    39,795
    Mentioned
    25 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Once the rear axle is wide enough the hub flanges are equidistant off the center line ..

    That Dish Reduction, helps wheel stability.. though the base is still narrow between the flanges..

    Recently Rohloff introduced a 36 hole hubshell for tandems and other heavy users, Widely spaced, large flanges.


    Seen 48 hole drilling adding 16 more to the 32 hole hubshell , but its for a crowsfoot pattern ,, groups of 3_ 2 , 2X 1Radial

  16. #16
    Hook 'Em Horns
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Austin, Texas
    My Bikes
    Mine: Paul Taylor Custom 66cm, Rivendell custom 68cm, '75 Eisentraut Touring 69cm, 68cm track frame of indeterminate origin, '92 Cannondale M500. Ours: '93 Burley Duet tandem XL. Hers: L Mercier Sora thingy
    Posts
    284
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I decided to get Shimano HF08 hubs, found some reasonably priced options on fleabay. $120 shipped for the rear, $71 shipped for the front. The goofy part is that what was available was 40 rear, 48 front. I had already ordered 40 and 48 rims, guess they'll go on opposite ends of the bike than what I anticipated! Oh the lengths I go to in order to save a buck or two...

    Planning on triple butted 2.3/1.8/2.0 in the back and double 2.0/1.8/2.0 in the front.

  17. #17
    Newbie
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    1
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Okay, so I know that this is a little late, but I thought that I would share my experience. We are a 400# team who does touring, so add another 100# for bike and stuff. We have 36/36 velocity dyad rims (which are great by the way). We have had zero problems in almost 2000 miles. You've heard it before, but it's best to think of your wheels as a system. Not only do the spokes need to have the proper tension, but the tires are also an important factor. Typically we run 32 mm tires, but we also have used 28 mm ones, both at 85 psi with no problem.

    You're mileage may vary.

  18. #18
    Hook 'Em Horns
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Austin, Texas
    My Bikes
    Mine: Paul Taylor Custom 66cm, Rivendell custom 68cm, '75 Eisentraut Touring 69cm, 68cm track frame of indeterminate origin, '92 Cannondale M500. Ours: '93 Burley Duet tandem XL. Hers: L Mercier Sora thingy
    Posts
    284
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    The wheels are not built up yet, so you are definitely not too late.
    Appreciate the comments, that gives me a lot more confidence on the 40 spoke rear that it will be fine. I am also planning on running 32mm tires on the new wheels. We rode on the 26mm tires the bike came with on our shakedown ride and it definitely felt like it was way too little tire. The factory rims are on the bike and they are pretty narrow so until the new wheelset is built I have some 28mm Gatorskins hanging on my wall that I will throw on there.

    Unfortunately I am not going to try to ride the bike again until I get my fit issues taken care of, I re-aggravated a recent back injury when I rode last Sunday. I usually ride with my handlebars even with the seat, but last Sunday they were at least 6-8" below the seat, not to mention the handlebars were way too narrow for my shoulders.

    Although now I feel better after heating pads, massage machines, stretching and yoga, I'm riding my single bikes this weekend most likely. I do have a longer seatpost, a Nitto Technomic (225mm) and a 48CM front handlebar on the way right now which should get my fit on the tandem right where I need it. Maybe if they come in today or tomorrow I can have it ready Saturday morning.

  19. #19
    Hook 'Em Horns
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Austin, Texas
    My Bikes
    Mine: Paul Taylor Custom 66cm, Rivendell custom 68cm, '75 Eisentraut Touring 69cm, 68cm track frame of indeterminate origin, '92 Cannondale M500. Ours: '93 Burley Duet tandem XL. Hers: L Mercier Sora thingy
    Posts
    284
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by brons2 View Post
    well it looks like the wheel master hubs were not available...back to the drawing board...


    1 of WHEEL MASTER HUB RR ALY SF QR 48x135 9sCAS TDM SLD BK [ASIN: B00B136X7O]
    1 of WHEEL MASTER HUB FT ALY SF QR 40H TDM SLD BK [ASIN: B006I9SUHW]

    ------------- Begin message -------------

    Dear Sir/Madam,

    We are contacting you regarding your order. Regretfully, we must inform you it is unable to be fulfilled at this time. We have tried different manufacturers to find a replacement, but at this point, we are only able to refund you in full. No amount of apologies could make up for this.

    Our goal is to provide each customer a shopping experience that exceeds expectations, and we failed to do that for you. Even though only a small percentage of our total orders are ever put in a similar situation, that business is just as appreciated. We hope to have the chance to make it up to you in the future!

    Again, we apologize for the any inconveniences. If you would like to periodically check on Amazon, the item may become available. With any other questions or concerns, please contact us via email or at 877-808-4855.

    Respectfully,
    Green Canyon Outfitters

    Hours of Operation:
    Monday through Sunday
    8:00 A.M. - 8:00 P.M.
    Central Standard Time
    Oh and on a side note, the front Wheelmaster hub showed up yesterday from Green Canyon Outfitters, after they said they had canceled my order, go figure. It was only like $27 so I think I'm just going to keep it. Although I do wonder if they even charged me for it. Or maybe they charged me for both. Guess I'll have to check it out.

    I can say that Nfmisso is right, the bearings seem to be buttery smooth on this quite inexpensive hub. I'm impressed. Perhaps a 2nd wheelset is in order

  20. #20
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Posts
    1,473
    Mentioned
    6 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by brons2 View Post
    I want to upgrade my Burley that I bought to use a casette hub and I was looking at my options on a hub that would accommodate the drum brake. I found the Handspun Pavement Series 9 at TreeFortBikes for $270 and was about to pull the trigger but then I hesitated. Are 40 spokes enough for my team?
    http://www.treefortbikes.com/product...Fevm7AodolUAVA
    I know the Dyad has a reputation of being a pretty tough rim, but still. Should I get a rim with 48 spokes, or with a heavier wheel like a Rhyno Light or Velocity Chukker, or both? We will only be riding on smooth roads with high volume tires, which probably mitigates the need for bombproof gear.
    Am I overthinking this?
    OP; The Dyad is an excellent tandem rim. The Ryno Lite's are also very strong. The Ryno's had finish issues in past years, the last box of them I bought were excellent. I stacked a dozen up on the shop table, lined them up perfectly and couldn't find a single glimmer of light gettng between any of them and the stack was absolutely straight top to bottom. They are running $23 to $30 per in whatever drilling you want which is about half to a third of a Dyad rim.

    Now the issue of how many spokes a tandem should have; This seems to be a religious issue in this forum for some reason. So expect answers from 16 to 48. From one view or the other, all of those are correct answers. My answer, from a more conservative (non-racing, non-gram counting, no carbon, no bamboo) mindset is 48 spokes, stainless, brass nipples, Wheelsmith brand, straight 14 gauge, Velox tape. I really don't like things that break!

    The Shimano HF series of tandem hubs is about the most viable choice if running a rear drag brake (it needs the NDS threaded part). If want to spend more, then a pair of Phil Woods are cool and may in the end lasting longer. The Phil bolt-on hubs are awe inspiring... But its likely either brand will last long enough to pass on to the grand kids.

    /k

  21. #21
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Posts
    1,473
    Mentioned
    6 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by nfmisso View Post
    And before that, the Taylor brothers (Jack Taylor Cycles) were custom drilling rims to 48 spokes because no company would make them for them. The Taylors got their hubs from Phil Wood, who would make almost anything ordered.
    nfmisso; I suspect this mixes two different era's. The phil hubs were much later in the history of the Taylors. Much earlier they used a wide variety of tandem hubs including Campy large flange ones. They routinely drilled blank French MaxiCar drum brake hubs (one of the ultimate bits -- some have popped up on ebay of recent) to 48 holes and used/drilled many brands of blank/undrilled rims to whatever driling needed for the build at hand, but yes often 48h. They build very good wheels. If one sees their 48 hole wheels with wingnut Maxicars and 12g spokes... well, they look like motocycle wheels!

    /k

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •