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  1. #1
    Senior Member 1speeder's Avatar
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    1996 Santana Sovereign Frame Crack Under The Stoker Seat Tube Clamp?

    Hi All,

    I just finished replacing the brakes on our 96 Santana Sovereign to Shimano CX70 brakes to hopefully get rid of the bad brake squeak (long story). Anyway, while I was installing the brakes in the rear, I noticed what I thought was a scratch, just below the stokers seat clamp (above the weld). It will catch a fingernail so I looked closer and do see it following the weld and slightly past (heading toward the seat tube split). I did remove the stoker seat post and do see a faint hairline crack as well. Does anyone know if this is repairable? Since this frame is anodized, I'm wondering if the tubing is more brittle and prone to cracking?

    There's only about 3 to 4,000 miles on the bike.

    Anyway, this just made my day.... I was hoping to get back into tandeming since the kids are grown and out of the house

    Thanks,
    Mike
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    Last edited by 1speeder; 03-07-14 at 06:19 PM. Reason: Spelling error

  2. #2
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    Send the pics to Santana and see what they say.......... my guess is a new frame.

    Good luck

  3. #3
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    Are you the original owner? If so, they will likely warranty it, assuming you didn't drive into your garage with it on the roof of your car or something ;-)

    They can repair aluminum frames. I've seen it done on an older Sovereign. You may have to pay for a repaint, though (~$600).

    Send them the pics and follow up with a phone call.

  4. #4
    Senior Member 1speeder's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by briwasson View Post
    Are you the original owner? If so, they will likely warranty it, assuming you didn't drive into your garage with it on the roof of your car or something ;-)

    They can repair aluminum frames. I've seen it done on an older Sovereign. You may have to pay for a repaint, though (~$600).

    Send them the pics and follow up with a phone call.
    Thanks for your responses, Yes, I am the original owner and just found the receipt, wow, we paid $4141.90 (before tax) for it back in 1996 and this was with an 8 speed cassette. No crashes or driving into a garage (ouch), I do believe I remembering seeing the crack many years ago when we were riding a lot. I will send Santana the pictures to see what they say. One thing I have to think about is if the frame is repaired and repainted at the cost of let's say $600 with out the shipping cost, is it worth it to do the repair or just go out and buy a slightly newer Sovereign with 9 or 10 speed shifting, a carbon fork and a drag disc brake too?

    Mike

  5. #5
    Senior Member waynesulak's Avatar
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    If price is a concenr then buying a whole new tandem would make paint plus shipping seem like a small amount.

    Please let us know what Santana says.

  6. #6
    Senior Member 1speeder's Avatar
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    Well, I found yet another crack in the frame, this one on the head tube. I remember either hitting a pot hole or something and hearing a big snap noise back in the early 2000's, I always thought it was the head set but now I know it wasn't. No tire or rim damage was done, so it shouldn't of damaged the frame. It looks like this frame is on the brittle side?DSC04998.jpg

    Looks like I need to send Santana another picture, Mike

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1speeder View Post
    Well, I found yet another crack in the frame, this one on the head tube. I remember either hitting a pot hole or something and hearing a big snap noise back in the early 2000's, I always thought it was the head set but now I know it wasn't. No tire or rim damage was done, so it shouldn't of damaged the frame. It looks like this frame is on the brittle side?DSC04998.jpg

    Looks like I need to send Santana another picture, Mike
    I would say a NEW frame is the right repair to do here...... 18 year old frame and the crack in the head tube is not a good thing . I found a similar crack in my head tube a year ago and they replaced the frame with the current 2013 frame and painted it the same custom color I had it repainted the year before and all I had to pay was the shipping of the old frame back and shipping of the new frame. $250.00 dollars total for a 2013 as compared to my old 2002 frame.... and I wasn't even the original owner , third owner. talk about standing behind there product!!!!!

    Ask for a new frame!!!
    Good luck

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1speeder View Post
    Well, I found yet another crack in the frame, this one on the head tube. I remember either hitting a pot hole or something and hearing a big snap noise back in the early 2000's, I always thought it was the head set but now I know it wasn't. No tire or rim damage was done, so it shouldn't of damaged the frame. It looks like this frame is on the brittle side?DSC04998.jpg

    Looks like I need to send Santana another picture, Mike
    i would do more than just send a picture, I would be talking to Steve and if you do not get the response that you want then directly to Bill, be polite but persistent!

    you should get a new frame, I had cracks in two different Trek frames and they were replaced with the latest updated frame with no questions asked.

  9. #9
    WPH
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tookool View Post
    I would say a NEW frame is the right repair to do here...... 18 year old frame and the crack in the head tube is not a good thing . I found a similar crack in my head tube a year ago and they replaced the frame with the current 2013 frame and painted it the same custom color I had it repainted the year before and all I had to pay was the shipping of the old frame back and shipping of the new frame. $250.00 dollars total for a 2013 as compared to my old 2002 frame.... and I wasn't even the original owner , third owner. talk about standing behind there product!!!!!

    Ask for a new frame!!!
    Good luck
    That's awesome. Wish all the manufacturers were so helpful.

    You better post a picture.

  10. #10
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    Please clarify: was that on a Santana or the Co-Motion you have listed in your profile?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tookool View Post
    I would say a NEW frame is the right repair to do here...... 18 year old frame and the crack in the head tube is not a good thing . I found a similar crack in my head tube a year ago and they replaced the frame with the current 2013 frame and painted it the same custom color I had it repainted the year before and all I had to pay was the shipping of the old frame back and shipping of the new frame. $250.00 dollars total for a 2013 as compared to my old 2002 frame.... and I wasn't even the original owner , third owner. talk about standing behind there product!!!!!

    Ask for a new frame!!!
    Good luck

  11. #11
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    I helped a friend out who had an older Santana Sovereign (aluminum) that had a very similar headtube crack as yours, but more on the side than the back. Also one on the lateral tube. It was part of her late father's estate and she didn't know much about bike or tandems, so I stripped the parts for her and helped her deal with Santana regarding the warranty. A very long story short that I don't want to get into here, they did warranty the frame, but fixed it rather than replacing it. Apparently the warranty only included the frame repair, and not a repaint (they would have just left the bare welds or primered it, I forget), but they offered to repaint it at half the normal repaint price. I thought they should have fully covered the repaint under warranty, but that wasn't my problem. In the end the repair turned out very nice and the repaint looked great. Looked like a brand-new Sovereign. So, don't be surprised if they offer to repair it rather than replace. And if so, it will take a few weeks as they have to let the welds and paint "cure" for a certain period of time.

  12. #12
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    [/I]
    Quote Originally Posted by briwasson View Post
    Please clarify: was that on a Santana or the Co-Motion you have listed in your profile?

    This was with CO-MOTION, as I stated they replaced the frame with the current year 2013 Robusta frame and went extra lengths as to measuring the old frame so that we would get the same size frame back and repainted the same custom three color fade we had the old frame painted... the only cost to us was the shipping of both frames. We are very much CO-MOTION fans now even more so then before...... they stood behind there product 100% with us and we were not the original owners.

  13. #13
    Senior Member 1speeder's Avatar
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    [Q So, don't be surprised if they offer to repair it rather than replace. And if so, it will take a few weeks as they have to let the welds and paint "cure" for a certain period of time.[/QUOTE]

    I just talked to Santana this morning and they did ask for the purchase receipt. I have the frame boxed and will ship it out tomorrow. Wow, the shipping cost from Northern California to Southern California is $131 dollars via FedEx Ground. What I worry about a repair verses replacement is this frame cracked in two different locations. To me, that means the frame is brittle. Won't the frame just crack somewhere else if they repair it? This frame came anodized, not painted so I'm curious what they will do about that?


    Mike

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1speeder View Post
    [Q So, don't be surprised if they offer to repair it rather than replace. And if so, it will take a few weeks as they have to let the welds and paint "cure" for a certain period of time.
    I just talked to Santana this morning and they did ask for the purchase receipt. I have the frame boxed and will ship it out tomorrow. Wow, the shipping cost from Northern California to Southern California is $131 dollars via FedEx Ground. What I worry about a repair verses replacement is this frame cracked in two different locations. To me, that means the frame is brittle. Won't the frame just crack somewhere else if they repair it? This frame came anodized, not painted so I'm curious what they will do about that?


    Mike[/QUOTE]

    Did you look into shipbikes.com for shipping? They seem to quote better prices than what you quoted and they actually ship through FedEx ground.

    Update: Example- S.F. to L.A. 35# box 75" x 11" x 33" (about as large of a box I could get to work in the rate calculater, but 75x11x35 was too large) was <$100 (about $92 to a business address).
    Last edited by LastKraftWagen; 03-16-14 at 09:09 PM.

  15. #15
    Senior Member 1speeder's Avatar
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    Did you look into shipbikes.com for shipping? They seem to quote better prices than what you quoted and they actually ship through FedEx ground.

    Update: Example- S.F. to L.A. 35# box 75" x 11" x 33" (about as large of a box I could get to work in the rate calculater, but 75x11x35 was too large) was <$100 (about $92 to a business address).[/QUOTE]

    Hi LKW,
    No, I didn't know a bicycle shipping company existed, I plugged in the shipping box weight and size and it came out to $85. dollars. Oh well, lesson learned on this one! I have a FedEx account so my cost on shipping came out to $113. I shipped it out on last Thursday.

    Thanks again,
    Mike

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