The problem is that this is now beyond the capacity of your LBS, who (most likely) ENVE has never heard of. Your wheelbuilding business should go to he that can source the 28-hole. This should be a big customer of ENVE, and someone who might find it useful to sell 28 hole SES 3.4 rims in the future. Two that come to mind are Rich at Wheelbuilder (they build a lot of Calfee wheels) and Jason at Fairwheel (they built my wheels).
The 28-hole ENVE 3.4 SES rim might be a super rim for tandems, and it would be a boon to tandems if these could be made available.
A Cannondale vendor that would forget to mention that the wheel is not intended as a replacement?
Fairwheel stem review.
As long as you are spec'ing seatposts, I think that you'd want to consider a carbon suspension seatpost for the stoker, such as the Specialized CG-R or the Ergon CF3 Pro Carbon SetBack. Stoker comfort is everywhere and always important, and now you can get some with a minimal weight penalty.
As a more universal stoker butt coddling device, she is loving a Terry Butterfly Carbon saddle. For $130 (Amazon), it's a lot cheaper than the posts, light weight (215gm), works with virtually any post and it can stay on the tandem permanently. Tiny as she is, the FLX saddles were too firm.
Keep it simple and try going without any suspension post at the start. Installing a saddle your stoker loves is the first priority.
Last edited by twocicle; 04-29-14 at 09:24 AM.
We have 3 tandems and the one we ride the most has a suspension post (stiff cdale) but she wants to try the calfee without one to start and go from there. She to has a favorite saddle (Prologo Kappa) and that will be going in the new build for sure.
Mine dropped the heavy suspension when we went to wide 75 psi tires. Net loss of weight. No road buzz in the handle bars either. It must be the carbon in the tire tread!
That said a sprung leather brooks and standard post is lighter than a traditional suspension seat post and avoids installation issues for short stokers.
The new flexible carbon post looks like a good option. I am interested to see how it holds up.
Last edited by waynesulak; 04-29-14 at 03:13 PM.
If you suspend the stoker (or captain....) you will potentially affect power production/injury potential due to constantly changing seat to pedal distance.
My stoker test drove a suspension post and gave it big thumbs down (YMMV).
The only time I feel stoker movement is when she stands, but she is small (~100 pounds).
Not saying suspension posts don't have their place, but there are negatives to weigh.
After some 400 miles of riding, the 25mm Conti 4-Seasons mounted on the 23mm wide rims are now measuring 27.7mm!! I guess that is equivalent to 28mm @ 106psi. We are at 265lbs as a team + ~35lbs for the tandem loaded with bottles, etc. For us, 106psi is right in line with the touted pressure adjustment of reducing 118psi by ~11% when moving from 19mm to the 23 or 24mm range.
Here is a sample of my single bike wheels using 23mm Conti GP4000 tires:
Mavic Ksyrium, rim: 19.6mm, 112psi. tire width: 23.6mm
Shimano 9000 C24, rim: 21mm, 108psi. tire width: 24.7mm
Rolf Vigor A, rim: 22mm, 105psi. tire width: 25.9mm
Other than width, bed height in the rims vary so not all rims of the same width allow the same amount of air volume.
Last edited by twocicle; 04-30-14 at 01:40 PM.
The function of spokes on tandem wheels are to provide the most lateral stiffness and strength with the least weight and aerodynamic drag. Spokes are a weak point on tandems, and they are hard pressed to do even this function.
If you are to go rooting around a tandem to look for someplace to absorb buzz, it is (IMO) ill-advised to settle on spokes, the most stressed and problematic component of all.
If you want to improve ride, install wider tires. Leave the spokes alone. If after wider tires you want further improvement, then get still even wider tires. If you want your wheels to give you a smoother ride, get wheels with wider rims that will allow wider tires.
When it comes to the function of being aero, the Spinergy wheel cannot be good, its 24(?) spokes being 3 mm in diameter, whereas Sapim CX-Ray spokes in comparison are 0.9 x 2.2 mm. 3 mm vs. 0.9 mm is a big difference.
Tandem wheels have more forces impacting lateral flex. In this one generally positive half-bike review the wheels appear to be considered flexy. If body English causes flex on a half-bike, a tandem's two bodies are going to flex these all the more.
So, aside from being non-aero and flexy, Spinergy wheels are great at absorbing buzz, a job that should be left up to the tires.Cornering feel
The PBO spokes help keep the wheels tracking through a corner by helping soak up hits that might normally throw a wheel off its line. But when really diving hard into a corner, or throwing some body English into an out-of-the saddle acceleration, there is some side to side flex that is more evident in the rear wheel.
Last edited by Ritterview; 04-30-14 at 02:09 PM. Reason: Added link
Amen. The humble stainless steel spoke is hard to beat in all is various shapes and sizes. The Spinergy wheels do get the prize for most humble product because of the ad copy clearly states that
"All this delivers a wheel that is lighter, stronger, faster and superior in every way."
Since I don't see any other wheels mentioned I infer that Spinergy means "lighter, stronger, faster and superior in every way" when compared to every other wheel on the market. no data is given to back up this all inclusive claim.
PBO Fiber Spoke Technology - Available only from Spinergy
Spinergy engineers have invented a revolutionary technology for stronger, lighter and faster wheels. Introducing PBO Fiber Spoke Technology. Every PBO spoke contains over 30,000 strands of polyphenylene bensobisoxazole fiber, delivering 3-times the strength of stainless steel at just half the weight.
Giving you the ultimate edge
The PBO fiber strands are encased in a chemical resistant, water / UV proof composite offered in a variety of colors. The outcome is a flexible spoke with incredible strength that will absorb impact more efficiently while staying in true. Our patented PBO spokes are lighter than traditional steel spokes which results in less rotational weight and a faster responding wheel ’ giving you the ultimate edge. All this delivers a wheel that is lighter, stronger, faster and superior in every way.
The wheels look like some thought has gone into the design and may be good wheels but that type of sales hype turns me off.
Added a link here to an older thread about the wheels.
Spinergy Wheels and Average Speed?
Last edited by waynesulak; 04-30-14 at 02:27 PM.
unfortunately all that gets wider is the axle , the hubshells for the 11 speed cassette hubs are dished less... Wider symmetrical hubs make stronger front wheels. The same goes for rear wheels.
by moving their flanges centered under the rim but no wider apart ..
I was referring to using 135mm rear spacing mentioned above. That narrow spacing requires a narrow dished wheel and if the user is concerned about with wider spacing for a stronger wheel then 145 or 150 or 160mm would be preferred.
Are referring to 145mm drop out Spinergy wheels?
Me? Im talking about the hubshell itself , AFAIK, Shimano freehubs dont use a different one .
the axle is wider, and the width is added on the left end , so the hub shell is shifted to the right .
No greater base width, as the hubshell itself remains the same but the rim is over the middle of the centerline in beween those flanges
so spoke tensions are pretty close to dishless equal ..
now If you instead were fitting A Rohloff hub in the rear wheel .. then they are wider apart and a bigger diameter too ..
though 'just' a 135.. axle
in the last couple years for tandem users they added a 36 hole hubshell to make a 3 cross (maybe 4) build possible ..
people were using them in tandems and the 32 hole 2 cross did have some spoke flange cracks ,
when couples were touring to places in Peru over the Andes and such on Dirt roads carrying a full camping kit,
so they got a second hub shell option made ..
Last edited by fietsbob; 04-30-14 at 05:26 PM.
You mention suspension posts in general, but I was specifically referencing the carbon posts, such as the CG-R. It doesn't bounce so much as absorb. I've seen oscillating stokers atop Thudbusters, but that isn't what I was talking about. Here's a video that shows both on a bike, I think I see more bouncing with the Thudbuster. When we actually used the CG-R, my experience was the stoker was more stable back there.
Just returned home from Santa Rosa, CA where I rode a Calfee demo tandem for the Wine Country Century. The trip couldn't have been better and everything went as planned. When I arrived at La Selva Beach (Calfee) to pick up the demo bike, Rob had it set up perfectly for our measurements and Jason gave us a great tour of the facility. We rented a Chrysler minivan with "stow and go" seating (per forum recommendation) and the bike slipped right in and we were off to Santa Rosa.
We were faster over most of the route compared to previous years riding a Cannondale, but we were minutes faster on the climbs. The bike handled well and felt smooth and stable with great cornering ability (I felt like I had ridden the bike hundreds of times). We achieved a top speed of 47mph and the bike felt like it was on rails and my stoker even commented how comfortable she was at that speed.
When we returned the bike on Monday Jason spent over an hour with us on the sizing machine fine tuning the build specs and we came to the conclusion that we will need to add 1" to the stoker compartment to allow my stoker's knees to clear when she is out of the saddle. So no timing belt for now. :-(
Whiskey Carbon Road fork thru axle 43 degrees
Enve XC 29 Wheels (28 Spoke) with Sapi cxray spokes ** Could not get Enve to sell their 3.4 SES rims in 28 hole (I tried).
White Ind - Road CX thru axle hubs (front 15mm and rear 142/12)
Thomson drop carbon bars
Ultegra DI2 (adding climbing shifters) with Shimano Hydraulic road brakes (ice tech rotors 180mm)
Lightening Cranks 2x (50/34)
Timing Chain (no belt)
Chris King headset
Cobalt blue opaque fade to Cobalt blue translucent