Cycling and bicycle discussion forums. 
   Click here to join our community Log in to access your Control Panel  


Go Back   > > >

User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 06-21-09, 11:03 AM   #26
pedaljeeps
member
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Dallas
Bikes: Merlin extra light, Ciocc-old steel, Masi-fixed, Litespeed- mt bike
Posts: 33
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChipSeal View Post
It is only rated the worst city to ride in by folks who have never ridden here. Here is a write-up about an actual experience of riding in the city of Dallas. Perhaps if those who rate the bicycle-friendliness of cities would rate them by actually riding in the said cities rather than how much paint is on the streets, they would be more meaningful.
I'm sorry, but I've lived in Dallas all my life.. Those people road with of course help from PM Summer, so of course they are swayed... he would have you think Dallas is the best.. when Dallas has never been on a list for good places to ride. I think that tells the bigger picture then several of PM Summer's friends.

I do agree Dallas has a great grid system, I ride all over on the weekends, and with just a little backing/education Dallas could be very good and there are things in the works, but things have been in the works for years and years....

A couple of examples where City planning could have made a difference..... 1st) when trying to go East to West & North, say a ride from S.bikemart on Garland Rd. to REI on 635, you get to ride the trail all the way to Royal, and then you need to get to Northhaven, another great road to ride, but getting to it is crazy getting across 75.... with a little planning there should be a safe passage getting from the bike trail to Northhaven.

2nd) my BIGGEST problem is not having a bikelane across the Mockingbird bridge at WRL and the attitude of the city about this... I'm not trying to start a debat about the safety of bike lanes, I've heard it all, so I don't want to hear how bike lanes are dangerous... but the response I had from the city council member, Sheffie Kadane was that bikes shouldn't be on the road anyway, end of story... That is his mindset.

And also.... getting to the TRE from the Katy trail.. on a weekday it is not a problem or really early in the AM, but going thru downtown in rush hour trying to get the train is crazy.. not really a safe way, unless the AA station is running.

IMO Ft. Worth is miles ahead of Dallas in cycling... I love to go over there and ride the 40+ miles of the trinity trails, and they also have a few bike lanes in places, which at least adds to the visibility of bikes belonging on the road....
pedaljeeps is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-21-09, 11:24 AM   #27
Lazyass
Senior Member
 
Lazyass's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: NC
Bikes: '11 Focus Culebro, '99 Specialized FSR XC Pro, '97 Raleigh R700, '94 Diamond Back Axis TR, '92 Paramount Series 5, '88 Centurion Lemans, '86 Univega Nouvo Sport
Posts: 4,967
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 53 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Creakyknees View Post
Dear fellow Texas cyclists,

We are stunned.

We will keep you informed regarding the next steps. Please stay tuned.

Respectfully,

Robin Stallings
Executive Director
BikeTexas
Hopefully your next steps will be coming up with ideas that will actually help cyclists. Unlike this failed bill.
Lazyass is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-21-09, 01:30 PM   #28
Steve A
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Texas
Bikes:
Posts: 50
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Three feet is not adequate clearance if speed differentials are large. If you think it is, see how you feel after you get passed by a motorcycle three feet away going 60mph.

Existing Texas law (545.053 )requires everyone to pass "at a safe distance." Most of the time, that's at least three feet. Sometimes it's a lot more. In stop & go traffic, it's a lot more than is necessary for safe operation.

Regardless, nationwide, prosecutions under "three foot" laws are so rare as to be nonexistant. The only one I'm aware of was one case where they cyclist insisted on such a prosecution rather than the more common grounds. Is anybody else aware of any such prosecutions of motorists?
Steve A is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-21-09, 02:04 PM   #29
kwrides
Senior Member
 
kwrides's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Houston, TX
Bikes: 2007 Orbea Onix, 2007 Windsor The Hour, 2008 Kona Jake
Posts: 3,198
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve A View Post
Three feet is not adequate clearance if speed differentials are large. If you think it is, see how you feel after you get passed by a motorcycle three feet away going 60mph.

Existing Texas law (545.053 )requires everyone to pass "at a safe distance." Most of the time, that's at least three feet. Sometimes it's a lot more. In stop & go traffic, it's a lot more than is necessary for safe operation.

Regardless, nationwide, prosecutions under "three foot" laws are so rare as to be nonexistant. The only one I'm aware of was one case where they cyclist insisted on such a prosecution rather than the more common grounds. Is anybody else aware of any such prosecutions of motorists?
3 feet is never too little. Never.

Your argument is against the officers who enforce the law, not the law. A 3 foot law is NOT a bad thing. Failing to enforce one is.

If you think it is difficult to enforce a 3 foot law, imagine how hard it is to enforce a "at a safe distance" law. That's nothing but he said/she said in a court of law.
kwrides is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-21-09, 03:14 PM   #30
Steve A
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Texas
Bikes:
Posts: 50
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Rather than argue inches or feet, can anybody indicate any prosecutions nationwide other than the one I mentioned and now can't find via Google? I KNOW some of you out there are search wizards!
Steve A is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-21-09, 03:25 PM   #31
kwrides
Senior Member
 
kwrides's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Houston, TX
Bikes: 2007 Orbea Onix, 2007 Windsor The Hour, 2008 Kona Jake
Posts: 3,198
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Here's the 1st one I found on Google. Is that the one you already mentioned?

http://www.bikeforums.net/archive/in.../t-393462.html
kwrides is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-21-09, 05:14 PM   #32
Steve A
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Texas
Bikes:
Posts: 50
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Yes, that's the one I mentioned. I remembered I read it SOMEWHERE! What really struck me was:

"Bultman said authorities gave him several options ... including assault. Instead, he opted for the 3-foot rule..."

Now we have a benchmark, can anyone find a single OTHER case? If not, I'd contend that if cycling advocates can find no better legislation to support, we're living in a cycling paradise!
Steve A is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-21-09, 06:40 PM   #33
Fantasminha
Senior Member
 
Fantasminha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Reno, NV
Bikes: Giant FCR, Scott CR1 Team, Fuji Newest 3.0
Posts: 402
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I have voted against Rick Perry for other reasons every time he runs.

My husband and I are just about to move to Dublin, Ireland. When I was there in April, I asked one of the commuters how it was to commute in Dublin. At first he indicated that it was not safe. When I told him I commute in Dallas, he laughed and said "well, then, you won't have any problem here at all!" I'm looking forward to it.
Fantasminha is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-21-09, 07:38 PM   #34
valencia
Senior Member
 
valencia's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Dallas, TX
Bikes: 2013 Trek 7.2 FX
Posts: 55
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Colorado signed their bill

http://bicyclecolo.org/page.cfm?PageID=1028
valencia is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-21-09, 09:57 PM   #35
ChipSeal
www.chipsea.blogspot.com
 
ChipSeal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: South of Dallas, Texas
Bikes: Giant OCR C0 road
Posts: 1,026
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by kwrides View Post
3 feet is never too little. Never.

Your argument is against the officers who enforce the law, not the law. A 3 foot law is NOT a bad thing. Failing to enforce one is.

If you think it is difficult to enforce a 3 foot law, imagine how hard it is to enforce a "at a safe distance" law. That's nothing but he said/she said in a court of law.
Look, the three foot law is not even cited when a cyclist is hit from behind in Florida, where it has been on the books for years. But neither is 545.053* which covers passing maneuvers in Texas. It is never cited when a cyclist is hit. Therefore, a new law doesn't advance anything for cyclists!

Rather than have the organizations and "advocates" that we support to lobby in our behalf make new meaningless "feel good" laws, we need them to lobby for more vigorous prosecutions by local DAs.

*Sec. 545.053. PASSING TO THE LEFT.
(a) An operator passing another vehicle:
(1) shall pass to the left of the other vehicle at a safe distance; and
(2) may not move back to the right side of the roadway until safely clear of the passed vehicle.
ChipSeal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-21-09, 10:06 PM   #36
ChipSeal
www.chipsea.blogspot.com
 
ChipSeal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: South of Dallas, Texas
Bikes: Giant OCR C0 road
Posts: 1,026
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fantasminha View Post

My husband and I are just about to move to Dublin, Ireland. When I was there in April, I asked one of the commuters how it was to commute in Dublin. At first he indicated that it was not safe. When I told him I commute in Dallas, he laughed and said "well, then, you won't have any problem here at all!" I'm looking forward to it
Had he ridden his bike in Dallas? Was this an informed comparison?

In any case, cycling is one of the least risky parts of one's day. Consider this safety quiz, for example.
ChipSeal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-21-09, 10:13 PM   #37
ChipSeal
www.chipsea.blogspot.com
 
ChipSeal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: South of Dallas, Texas
Bikes: Giant OCR C0 road
Posts: 1,026
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Here is an interesting blog article and a lively debate in the comments about the three foot laws.
ChipSeal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-21-09, 10:56 PM   #38
Jtgyk
Senior Member
 
Jtgyk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Richardson TX
Bikes:
Posts: 1,308
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I've been thinking a lot about this as it has been discussed here.

The 3 foot law as presented doesn't seem to be a bad thing. I mean...just a couple years ago there was a law passed about either having to slow 20 mph below the speed limit or move to the left lane when passing where a police vehicle had pulled over a car. The new law obviously was not needed with the laws written as they were, but (with a long history of officers and cars being hit) drivers weren't following safe driving practices. (big surprise!)

The road would be a much safer place to ride if the existing laws were rigorously enforced and officers were well trained and informed regarding bicycles and vehicle code. Too often the officer's personal opinion of cycling colors their judgment at an "incident"...more often than not drivers not ticketed or hit and runs not investigated because bicycles "don't belong on the road."
Theoretically, the new law would lend specific weight to the ticketing/pursuit of the offender.

Call me jaded, though...I have doubts as to the enforcement or another law.
Perhaps mandated TRAINING AND EDUCATION for those enforcing the laws regarding cycling could be more easily funded. I'm not holding my breath though.
__________________
Hey, I'm just this GUY...you know?
>>>Team Critical Mess<<< (You mean it's not SUPPOSE to hurt?)

My nice new Nashbar Touring Build AKA "The Flying Avocadooooooooo!"
1998(?) Trek 700 Multitrack
1995 Trek 1220 AKA "Jimi"
Older Non-suspension Specialized Hardrock
Jtgyk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-22-09, 07:26 PM   #39
Monoborracho
Senior Member
 
Monoborracho's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Deep In The Heart
Bikes: Seven Ti Tandem, Blue T12 tri bike, 92 Paramount, 93 Schwinn Mesa MTB, Soma Saga
Posts: 2,611
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
We just returned from the Tennessee Tandem Rally where we spent 3 days, most of it on two lane roads without a shoulder and bit on a four lane road without a shoulder.

We had not a single person honk, tailgate, or crowd us. Nada. Zip. None. In over 100 miles of riding...no problems. Our rides included backing up cars behind us on many occasions on twisty turny mountain roads. Again...no problems whatsoever.

Tennessee has a 3 foot law. I understand it was recently enacted after a high profile death of a bicyclist. Motorists seem to be aware of it.

Too bad we don't have it here in Texas.
__________________
Most economic fallacies derive from the tendency to assume that there is a fixed pie, that one party can gain only at the expense of another.....Milton Friedman
Monoborracho is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-23-09, 06:36 PM   #40
Steve A
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Texas
Bikes:
Posts: 50
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Let's see, it's been well over 1000 miles since anybody honked at me, much less any of that other stuff. Lots of two lane roads without a shoulder. Lots of them with "no passing" double yellow lines. Some of it (one of the easier legs) on a four lane road without a shoulder. All in Texas. Tell me again how the phenomenon of motorist courtesy is related to a 3 foot law? My experience is the overwhelming majority of motorists treat cyclists with more courtesy than they do each other.

The only incident in that last 1000 miles was some dweeb in a minivan who felt it necessary to tell me "there's a path over there" as he passed in an otherwise safe and courteous manner. Of course, his RH mirror was way more than three feet away as he told me this.
Steve A is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-23-09, 07:27 PM   #41
jtarver
Rumblefish
 
jtarver's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Austin Texas
Bikes: 1973 Crescent Pepita Single Speed,1978 Raleigh Competition G.S.,1976 Raleigh Super Course MKII,1970's Motobecane Super Touring Fixed Gear, 1980's Denti Road Tech Five,Gary Fisher Hoo Koo E Koo,1973 Atala Giro,Cheap MTB Tandem,Schwinn World Sport
Posts: 688
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
^^^Please advise as to what deodorant/clothing/headgear you're wearing so I can rush out and get some^^^
jtarver is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-23-09, 08:19 PM   #42
chipcom 
Infamous Member
 
chipcom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Ohio
Bikes: Surly Big Dummy, Fuji World, 80ish Bianchi
Posts: 24,366
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Creakyknees View Post
We are extremely disappointed with the Governor's action. In our view, this reflects a cavalier attitude on the part of the Governor toward the deaths of the 1000 vulnerable road users that are killed annually in Texas.
Is this referring to 1000 cyclists killed annually in Texas. If so, while I understand that everything is bigger in Texas, if I recall correctly only 800ish cyclists are killed every year nationally.
__________________
"Let us hope our weapons are never needed --but do not forget what the common people knew when they demanded the Bill of Rights: An armed citizenry is the first defense, the best defense, and the final defense against tyranny. If guns are outlawed, only the government will have guns. Only the police, the secret police, the military, the hired servants of our rulers. Only the government -- and a few outlaws. I intend to be among the outlaws" - Edward Abbey
chipcom is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-23-09, 10:07 PM   #43
Creakyknees
ride lots be safe
Thread Starter
 
Creakyknees's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Texas
Bikes:
Posts: 5,196
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by chipcom View Post
Is this referring to 1000 cyclists killed annually in Texas. If so, while I understand that everything is bigger in Texas, if I recall correctly only 800ish cyclists are killed every year nationally.
the bill covered "vulnerable road users" which includes construction workers, cyclists, pedestrians, etc.
Creakyknees is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-24-09, 07:31 AM   #44
lotek
Forum Admin
 
lotek's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: n.w. superdrome
Bikes: 1 trek, serotta, rih, de Reus, Pogliaghi and finally a Zieleman! and got a DeRosa
Posts: 17,710
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7 Post(s)
I'm with Steve A. not too many problems ( mostly just inattentive drivers) and haven't been yelled at
buzzed etc. ever on texas roads.
Just wear a Texas Flag jersey!

marty
__________________
Sono pił lento di quel che sembra.
Odio la gente, tutti.


Want to upgrade your membership? Click Here.
lotek is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-24-09, 09:36 PM   #45
Steve A
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Texas
Bikes:
Posts: 50
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Are you suggesting that wearing that "Hawaii" tank top yesterday was an error that should have gotten me squished by an F350? I will have to keep that in mind and wear a "Bell Helicopter - Fly Safe" jersey - after the strike's over...
Steve A is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-25-09, 07:30 AM   #46
Griffin2020
On the road to health.
 
Griffin2020's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Arlington, TX
Bikes: Specialized Allez, Cervelo RS is in process.
Posts: 603
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I very rarely have issues with motorists. There is, however, a subset who believe that bicycles will never belong on the road, and they will act the a** no matter what the law states.

I take it in stride.

What I really liked about the law was the escalation of penalties. I was involved in a motorcycle accident in 2005. The lady who (I will say intentionally, as she sat at the entrance to an apartment complex, waiting until I was about 10 feet from her to pull out into me. She was looking straight at me, and I was the only vehicle on the road at the time) hit me received a traffic ticket. Failure to yield right of way (or to control speed), resulting in an accident. The fine was $186.
So far, my medical bills have cost in excess of $500K, they are ongoing, and will be for the rest of my life. At some point I am going to have to have my mutilated leg amputated. Am I bitter? No. Am I angry? Sometimes. That incident, less than 1/4 of a second has changed my life forever. I will never be able to run again,I am in almost constant pain. The only good thing to come out of that incident is that I am back on the bicycle, and am beginning to ride longer distances again (once the doctor releases me once more).
Griffin2020 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-25-09, 09:24 AM   #47
RedDeMartini
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Bikes:
Posts: 409
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Thanks Robin!
-Ben
ben at WABA.org
RedDeMartini is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-26-09, 05:40 PM   #48
Mr_Christopher
insert witty comment here
 
Mr_Christopher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Dallas Texas
Bikes: '09 Trek 7.2 FX, mid 90s Trek 820, 1982 Schwinn Super LeTour, Legran Seville, Peugeot UE 18
Posts: 833
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by jtarver View Post
IMO the best thing Texas could do is retire the "Click it or Ticket" campaign and replace it with a new one dealing with bike law. I mean, everyone knows you must wear a seat belt by now, it's been the law for decades. Why not a media blitz regarding bicycle law as it applies to cyclists and motorists?
Or what about the useless "don't mess with texas" nonsense? They practically dare you to throw your trash out the window of your car. Yeah a media blitz something along the lines of "don't kill cyclists" would be cool.
Mr_Christopher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-09, 03:28 PM   #49
kwrides
Senior Member
 
kwrides's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Houston, TX
Bikes: 2007 Orbea Onix, 2007 Windsor The Hour, 2008 Kona Jake
Posts: 3,198
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Sign the petition http://www.biketexas.org/index.php?o...id=32&Itemid=1
kwrides is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 07:06 AM.