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Old 10-01-10, 09:19 PM   #1
hrt4me
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Jogger Seriously Hurt on Katy Trail

IMHO, the jogger is at fault for wearing headphones and not having the situational awareness to know the cyclist was there...

Jogger Seriously Hurt on Katy Trail
Published : Friday, 01 Oct 2010, 3:14 PM CDT
Natalie Solis
Fox 4 News


DALLAS - A woman who was out jogging on the Katy Trail Thursday evening was seriously hurt when a bicyclist hit her.

According to police reports, 28-year-old Lauren Huddleston of Dallas abruptly turned left just as a woman on a bicycle tried to pass her.

Witnesses told police Huddleston had been wearing headphones and likely didn't hear the bicyclist.

The two collided near Cedar Springs Road and Turtle Creek Boulevard.

Both women were taken to a local hospital.

The biker's injuries were not life threatening, but Huddleston suffered a severe head injury. She is in the intensive care unit and may not survive.
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Old 10-02-10, 07:48 AM   #2
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I'm glad you brought this story to the forum. I saw the story on TV last night. I was quite upset that the news story suggest the cyclist on the trail as the problem and the cause of the accident. What is it about the public that see cyclist (not "bikers") as the problem? Cars don't want us on the roads. Pedestrians don't want us on the trials/side-walks.

If someone hears anything more about any follow-up actions or movements against the cyclist, please post becuase I would love to show up and support cyclist.

My thoughts and prayers are with the young lady and I hope she makes a full recovery.
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Old 10-02-10, 01:11 PM   #3
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That trail is great for getting from one place to another, but people ride their bikes up and down the thing way too fast for the traffic volume. As far as I'm concerned, it's just too short for a bike workout, but I have a feeling that's what happened in this case. The jogger wearing headphones is much more a problem than the fast cyclist, I still firmly believe. A MUP is exactly that... Multi-User.
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Old 10-02-10, 07:50 PM   #4
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I rode the Katy for the first time the other day, and I would never feel comfortable going that fast on a trail that busy. That being said, mothers who aren't paying attention on a trail with as much traffic as the Katy are being foolish.
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Old 10-03-10, 03:00 PM   #5
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Very sad, i hope the jogger survives and cyclist recovers

I hope this is a wake up call for dallas and the designers of MUPs and other trails intended for walkers, runners, strollers, dogs, kids, and cyclists...these trails need to be designed better and people need to be educated on how to use them safely...the trails claim to be designed for cyclists but what they are really designed for are bikers on a mountain bike, cruiser, or huffy's going 5-8 mph

i'm a cyclist and a runner and will never use a MUP on my road bike because it is just plain too dangerous for me, i don't think non-cyclists realize we are clipped into our bike, our tires have no grip, and our bike is narrow making them very different than the huffy's when we were kids...as a runner i always look over my shoulder before turning on/off a path and i choose to run on the soft trails (dirt, grass, tar, etc.) alongside the hard trails (concrete) that cyclists use...it's better for the joints and safer

i think the key is max speeds on MUPs, safety education (the trail has a pedestrian only path but few peds actually use it), and better road legislation for cyclists, we want to bike on roads, the problem is they are damaged, unsafe, and legally we are not treated as equals to motorists...if dallas is going to transform into the cycling hub it claims it wants to be, a lot needs to change and be geared towards cyclists going 15-25 mph not 5-8mph
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Old 10-03-10, 09:04 PM   #6
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The jogger died earlier this evening
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Old 10-03-10, 10:04 PM   #7
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Ooh... that's awful.

In general, and we apply this all the time to cars when they are the faster vehicles out on the road, the overtaking vehicle is primarily responsible for passing safely; also pedestrians have the primary right of way. Basically, even if the pedestrian did something erratic, I think it was in large measure the fault of the cyclist from the description given.

I feel terrible for the family of the jogger, and also for the cyclist who will now have to face likely legal action and deal with the guilt of contributing to (perhaps directly causing) the death of another. A sad story all around.

EDIT: On watching the video in the link, it was a very even-handed report, stressing that both cyclists and pedestrians are responsible for safety. Well done, Fox 4.
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Old 10-04-10, 08:21 AM   #8
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dallas news article after her death

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcont...156702d91.html
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Old 10-04-10, 08:28 AM   #9
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I'm sorry she's dead, but she shouldn't have been wearing headphones. If she had been more alert and aware of her surroundings, she'd still be alive.

So many times on our MUP I will ring my bell and even shout, and pedestrians will continue ambling two and three abreast completely oblivious of what is going on around them.

(BTW, I thought that that Katy Trail was in Missouri, not Texas.)
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Old 10-04-10, 10:42 AM   #10
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Clearly the pedestrian contributed to this, but the cyclist was riding to fast for the conditions.

If the rider had been going at an appropriate speed for the conditions, the accident would unlikely have been fatal, even if the congested conditions required the cyclist to pass close enough that the pedestrian turning around into the path of the cyclist caused a collision.

Whether anyone should be wearing headphones on a MUP is immaterial, the simple fact is that many (if not most users) of a MUP do wear them, and it isn't a road, traffic shouldn't be moving that fast.
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Old 10-04-10, 11:11 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by myrridin View Post
...but the cyclist was riding to fast for the conditions.
Has anyone seen any mention of the speed of the cyclist? I haven't. I think the speed of the cyclist is irrelevant, the speed probably didn't add to the force of impact, it was just the fall and location of impact that caused the damage. People hitting their head from a stand still can cause death.

Just bad luck. It could have easily been another runner that caused her to fall and hit her head. Very unfortunate and sad. I'm glad however that the family isn't holding a grudge and instead is looking to prevent future similar accidents on dallas trails.
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Old 10-04-10, 12:52 PM   #12
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If the family were to take the matter to civil court, and if I were to be on such a jury, then there's no way (based on the open source facts) I would ever hold the cyclist liable in any way (much less criminally liable).
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Old 10-04-10, 02:31 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by JMallez View Post
Has anyone seen any mention of the speed of the cyclist? I haven't. I think the speed of the cyclist is irrelevant, the speed probably didn't add to the force of impact, it was just the fall and location of impact that caused the damage. People hitting their head from a stand still can cause death.

Just bad luck. It could have easily been another runner that caused her to fall and hit her head. Very unfortunate and sad. I'm glad however that the family isn't holding a grudge and instead is looking to prevent future similar accidents on dallas trails.
I saw an interview of witnesses to the accident on local television (FOX 34?). The witness described the cyclists speed as reckless.

Curious, do you think a cars speed is irrelevant when it hits a cyclist?

I don't think there is any doubt that the cyclists speed was a contributing factor in the DEATH.
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Old 10-04-10, 02:32 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by hrt4me View Post
If the family were to take the matter to civil court, and if I were to be on such a jury, then there's no way (based on the open source facts) I would ever hold the cyclist liable in any way (much less criminally liable).
Maybe so, but I suspect the cyclist would get tagged for some liability... at least in any civil trial in the US I've heard of...
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Old 10-04-10, 02:47 PM   #15
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I read a comment at the bottom of one of the articles where a woman described the speed of cyclists on katy trail being between 30-40 mph :-s so i'm not sure how good of a judge peds are at eyeballing speeds, and reckless is very subjective. On Katy trail you are lucky if you can even get your speed up to 15 mph, it is virtually impossible during the evenings...and yes, technically everything can be a factor in death especially in this case, a major factor though who knows at least until the cyclists gps or computer data is pulled.
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Old 10-04-10, 03:08 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by Elkhound View Post
I'm sorry she's dead, but she shouldn't have been wearing headphones. If she had been more alert and aware of her surroundings, she'd still be alive.

So many times on our MUP I will ring my bell and even shout, and pedestrians will continue ambling two and three abreast completely oblivious of what is going on around them.

(BTW, I thought that that Katy Trail was in Missouri, not Texas.)
This is not just a pedestrian problem, I've seen cyclists (including very experienced cyclists) that do the same thing when riding on roads with cars that want to get past.

The Katy Trail is so-named from being built on the rail line of the MKT railroad, commonly known as the Katy. The route in Missouri is quite long, I think, the one here in Dallas is 4 miles or so, in a very urban area. There may be some other Katy Trails around as well.
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Old 10-04-10, 07:54 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by myrridin View Post
I saw an interview of witnesses to the accident on local television (FOX 34?). The witness described the cyclists speed as reckless.
Curious, do you think a cars speed is irrelevant when it hits a cyclist?
I don't think there is any doubt that the cyclists speed was a contributing factor in the DEATH.
FROM:
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10:47 AM on October 4, 2010


"First of all, my prayers go out to Lauren's family. This was a tragic accident. And yes, it was an accident because neither party intended to cause a crash.

I was on the trail that evening and was passed by the cyclist who was riding with at least one other bike. That notified me when they passed me and my dog and the couple in front of me. We were all walking on the wrong (bike) side and I wondered why this wasn't more clearly marked. I was just behind Lauren and reached the site just a couple minutes after the accident. I spoke with the eye witnesses while Lauren was being helped by the other cyclist, and they all said the same thing, the bikes said they were passing and the young lady didn't hear them but at that exact moment turned without looking.

This was an accident, a terrible one. One that should bring some awareness and changes to hike/bike trails. But this was not the fault of the cyclist. When he passed me he was under control and cruising at a reasonable speed. Several bikes were going much faster and I noticed they were not as courteous.

For those making judgmental comments about either party, keep in mind that the witnesses on the scene, who were unbiased, all said exactly the same thing. Currently, bikes are allowed on the trails. This may change, but unless they do, bikes have every right to be there and runners as well as bikers should take every step they can to be safer. Running with headphones so loud you can't hear oncoming bikes announcing their presence may be more motivating/enjoyable, but it is too dangerous on the Katy trail to do that, and not turn your head to look before you turn."
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Old 10-05-10, 06:39 AM   #18
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I don't understand the Katy.

For some of the length there are two parallel paths, one signed for pedestrians only and the other signed for pedestrians and cyclists. The only two times I've ridden there, the majority of the pedestrians eschewed their exculsive track and were mixing it up with the bicycles on the shared path. I entertained some theories on why this would be, but nothing I came up with quite fit what I was observing. (The news story said the jogger who was killed was using the shared side of the path.)

I also didn't grasp the at-grade crossing @ Knox. It's signed for bicyclists to stop until traffic clears. I never discerned any pattern to who stopped and who continued through without breaking speed: northbound cyclists, east bound motorists, south bound cyclists, west bound motorists. The intersection seemed to be entirely controlled by a psychic force my aura couldn't reach. Like most mysterious things, it was fascinating to watch.
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Old 10-05-10, 07:15 AM   #19
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This is not just a pedestrian problem, I've seen cyclists (including very experienced cyclists) that do the same thing when riding on roads with cars that want to get past.

The Katy Trail is so-named from being built on the rail line of the MKT railroad, commonly known as the Katy. The route in Missouri is quite long, I think, the one here in Dallas is 4 miles or so, in a very urban area. There may be some other Katy Trails around as well.
The Missouri, Kansas & Texas (MKT) Railroad, the "KATY" ran from St. Louis westward across Missouri, cuts through the SE corner of Kansas, then runs south through Oklahoma and the Indian Nations on down through Texas to Dallas and beyond. Not all of the old railroad bed has been converted to trails, the most famous being the long stretch through Missouri...

Anyone remember the opening scene from The Blues Brothers, with the old Robert Johnson tune, "She Caught the KATY"? Same railroad, same trail.
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Old 10-05-10, 02:42 PM   #20
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This is so unfortunate. I can't ride on MUP's here in Dallas, just too much stress, too much activity.
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Old 10-06-10, 06:16 PM   #21
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Sad, regardless of the at-fault person, or shared fault. I have been on group rides, that went along paved MUPs as part of the route, and found myself wanting to opt for the busy parallel public street, rather that deal with dog leashes and strollers, and whole families walking abreast, on the MUP. I see these paved trails as a place to ride at a virtual waking pace, not a way to move along efficiently. It does, of course, save my feet, with their problems caused by walking and running, that are mitigated by riding.
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Old 10-06-10, 06:59 PM   #22
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This is a tragic accident.

We must strive to be careful every time we are out running or cycling. Three months ago I headed out for a nice morning ride. I should have been gone about 1.5 hours, but I didn't make it home until I had spent 3 days in the hospital. I'm mostly recovered now but I may never recover 100%. Nevertheless it could have been worse. I've been riding almost 30 years and I always think I'm being careful. I'll have to be extra careful in the future.
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Old 10-07-10, 10:58 AM   #23
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Maybe so, but I suspect the cyclist would get tagged for some liability... at least in any civil trial in the US I've heard of...
I was just stating what I would do were I ever on such a jury with these particular facts...
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Old 10-11-10, 10:34 AM   #24
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http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/39606331
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Old 10-11-10, 12:02 PM   #25
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This line disturbs me:
But some folks suggest a speed limit or a total ban on bicycles. (From the MSNBC article referenced above).
I can see a concerted effort to ban bikes on MUPs, I've already heard some people interviewed say
that bikes should not be allowed on the same trails as runners.
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