imi

My current bike is a Bob Jackson World Tour - (27-speed, 700c wheels, max 32mm tires with fenders).
I'm planning a new build with a Thorn Sherpa frame (26"), for touring on more rugged paths, other foreign places, and in a few years doing the Tour d'Afrique
I already have some 9-speed components which can be put on the Sherpa (Dura-Ace bar end shifters, LX rear derailleur).
The LX trekking group seems to be discontinued, so I'm considering an XT crankset and front derailleur. This would make my two bikes pretty identical component wise. But my question is... does it make sense for me to build a 27-speed expedition bike in this day and age? availability of spare parts in the future etc?

Thanks for any thoughts and advice!

p.s I've found a great deal for a set of Mavic XM719's wheels with LX hubs... good choice? This 26" wheel thang is totally new to me btw...

bradtx

imi, I don't see why either choice, 9S or that wheel set wouldn't be a good choice.

Brad

djb

Ive been thinking about the same thing for a while as well, have asked about peoples experience with 9 vs 10 for chain life etc.
My take on it is that if I were ever to get a bike set up for a more adventurous trip, I would stick with 9, for it probably being easier to get 9 spd chains in more far off places vs 10. I think this aspect of having availability of stuff is a real crap shoot, really dependent on where you are--which country, what sort of communication you can have with larger bike shops in a nearby city--lots of variables here and not an aspect that has a clear answer.

I would mention also that having more gears is always nice, having closer jumps between gears is really nice with any bike at any weight, especially nice with 40lbs of stuff or more on a bike, and I would add, nicer as we get older and our knees arent as they were when we were 25. For this reason, I would not hesitate going with 10 spd, especially with cassettes like a 12-30, that combined with a smaller than road cranks, can give a pretty good low gear (a 24granny-30t gives about 21 gear inches with 700 wheels, a 22granny with a 30 with 26in wheels can give under 19 g.i.)

there are opinions that in Outer Whereveristan, you wont be able to find a 9 spd chain either, let alone 10 or even 8, but I guess being conservative about gear, for the type of trip you are mentioning, I am more inclined to stick with 9.

All my opinions are not really backed up from having travelled in far off places. Where I have been in N America, Europe and even in Latin America, biking has been pretty popular so modern stuff is available.

Here are a couple of gearing charts that I have thought of for changing things on my 26in bike (presently 8 speed).
A 10 sp 12-30 with 22 granny and 2 inch tires gives 19 g.i
A 9 sp 11-32 with 22 granny and 2 inch tires gives a bit under 18.

lower is always nicer with killer gradients and bad surfaces, I would be happy with the 9 speed setup and these are very common parts to be able to order (a 11-32 9 spd for example)

PS look at the percentage jumps between these two cassettes, this is what is so nice with 10 sp, having nearly as low gearing but closer jumps--like everything in life, there are always compromises, you chose what is your priority depending on various factors.

hueyhoolihan

if i had the parts for a 9-speed, i'd go 9, no question. IME, it's a major convenience to have bikes set up using compatible parts.

and for touring off-road, IMO, anything above about 70 gear inches isn't worth carrying up an incline.

fietsbob

how about a Thorn Raven frame and a Rohloff hub instead of derailleurs. ?

The April ACA magazine has a piece 'the drivetrain dilemma' the 9 speed stuff is the last that has much cross compatibility possible
for drop bar levers, and mountain drivetrains.. as far as the Industries are concerned, touring bikes is a market segment too small to matter .

Work hard and ride on the weekend and then go back to the job on Monday .. that is where the majority of the riders are .. Long holidays are un-American!

LeeG

I don't have world cycling experience to comment on chain size availability, seems to me 10 belongs on racing bikes given the range a triple gives you with 8-9 cog cassettes. Regarding wheelsets if you're heavy and the load is heavy with rim brakes I'd want a fatter heavier rim than the 719 on the rear just from perusing travel logs

antokelly

yes very hard to get deore 9 speed these days ,i had full xt on my sherpa used tiagra sti 9 speed shifters worked perfect . i have 11 speed 105 on my new Terry Dolan also works perfect but if i had a touring bike i would be looking for 9 speed for sure.
curse you shimano for dropping deore 9 speed from your groupsets.

bikemig 

Is the deore 9 speed rear derailleur no longer being made? That's the deore M591, right? That's too bad.

Doug64

My wife and I had this discussion yesterday when we had the opportunity to use most of the gears on our bikes. The questions we came up with were: Do people make use of all the gears they have; how many people actually do a double shift( both cassette and chainring)every time they shift to get the next higher or lower gear; Do most people do most of their shifting on the rear derailleur, skipping the intermediate gear jumps; Do most of us know where the where our next lower or higher gear is located?

My observations on club rides and my own habits lead me to believe we don't really utilize all the gears we already have. I find I do the most "complicated" and numerous shifts when trying to find that sweet spot on gently rolling terrain.

My opinion of the OP's question is that a 9 speed setup works well for touring.

bikemig 

I really like mavic a719 700c rims a lot so they'd be near the top of my list for 26 inch rims. I'd look to see what velocity offers as well.

I'd go for 9 speed for the kind of build you are talking about and obviously go with 26 inch wheels as well. Your shifters have a friction option so you have a lot of options with rear derailleurs. I wouldn't want the 10 speed shimano bar ends for a trekking build since those are index only on the rear. Micro-shift 10 speed bar ends work in friction and index mode so they would be my choice if going with 10 speed.

antokelly

Doug i always use my gears one shift at a time .

fietsbob

Have the Ex721 26" Mavic Rims on My Koga WTR, offered in 36 and 32 hole . I like the rim (fused Loop strip) channel that snaps the strip in place so it won't shift.

Tourist in MSN

My Thorn Sherpa and my Long Haul Trucker both have the same 8 speed gearing. That is what I built up my LHT with in 2004, was happy enough with it that I used the same gearing when I built up the Sherpa (I am not sure, I think it is the Mk II version) in 2010. If I had to build up a new bike tomorrow with derailleur gearing, I would use 8 speed again.

It is my understanding that my 8 speed and the 9 speed systems share many components. Differing components include chains (width), shifter (indexed differently) and cassette. My point is that if you needed a 9 speed chain and could not get one, maybe an 8 speed chain plus 8 speed cassette would be available? If so, that could get you out of a jam if you changed your shifter over to friction. I think you are less likely to find there are many options to substitute parts with 10 or more speeds in back.

If you carried a spare quick link or two, the odds of having an unfixable chain failure in the middle of nowhere greatly diminishes too. Most of my bikes share the same cheap KMC 8 speed chains and same quick links, it is simpler that way.

Since the bar end shifters have friction front, there is a wide variety of front derailleurs that would work.

You will like the Sherpa, handles a load very nicely and you can go almost anywhere with a 50 mm wide tire. First photo, my Sherpa with 50mm wide Schwalbe Dureme tire on front, Extreme on rear, unfortunately those tires are discontinued but they worked great on the mostly gravel trip that ended a few miles after my photo was taken. Second photo with 40mm wide Schalbe Marathon (with Greenguard) tires on a trip that was mostly on pavement.



I have no opinion on the wheels you are considering because I am not familiar with LX hubs. But I would suggest that you get a rear hub with steel axle, not Aluminum axle.

GamblerGORD53

Pffft
Only a 14 speed disc Rohloff with Dyad rims make sense to me. Take extra oil, cogs and tools. Buy chains along the way.
I also used a SA drum dyno up front. Not the best stopper but now 15,000+ miles with zero worries and not half done yet.
100% useable and available gears with no gaps. I have 22 to 120 GIs and used them ALL plenty. Could use a 20 GI but I ain't dropping 10 off the top. I was passing Honda 150s on the downhill. ha

mtn.cyclist

I just built up a new touring/bikepacking bike using 9 speed stuff, mostly because I had it. I took all of the drive train off of a mountain bike. Changed shifters/levers to Genevalle for drop bar use, changed hydraulic brakes to mechanical. My point is, I think 9 speed make perfect sense if it can meet your needs.

imi

Wow! Thanks everybody for the great responses.
As far as I have gathered it is the "Deore LX 9-speed group that has been discontinued, not the "Deore" ... Please correct me if this is not so. A real shame imo, as the LX trekking group hit a sweet spot for touring, robust, cheaper, but a bit heavier than XT. The hub axles are (I believe) steel not aluminium, though I have run my XT hubs for about 10K kms without issue.
I gravitated towards the XM719 for the reason bikemig mentioned, as I've run 700c A719s since the early stonehenge for loaded touring, very often if something works, I'll stick to it... so yeah, steel bikes, rim brakes, bar-end shifters even toeclips... and cotton t-shirts! OMG!!! hihi Thanks again everyone for your input 'preciate it

CAX

I'd definitely stay with 9 speed. I run 8-speed on my touring bike and find it easier to use with friction shifting compared to e.g. 10 speed. I don't miss having more gears but have in the past regretted that my gearing was a bit too tall (fully loaded in the Swiss Alps).

As for cassette I'd pick out a custom cassette at Veloform in Majorna (and get a coffee while you're at it!).

imi

Check! I'll be in Majorna tomorrow...
- coolest part of town in Goth City

veganbikes

My new bike is going to be 9 speed Triple. I don't see any reason not to do so. I am going to be running XT rear and an older Dura-Ace front. My previous tourer bike is a 9 speed as well (though I am switching from 26" to 700c)

I have a feeling a you will better find 9 speed parts in other countries since it is not the latest stuff and it will be more durable anyway.

MichaelW

In current 10spd, can you mix road shifters with MTB rear mechs?

badger_biker 

I'd definitely go with no more than 9 speed for many of the reasons already mentioned. I just finished building up a 26 inch tourer from scratch and went with Deore LX 9 speed. I had the STI levers so I used them otherwise I would have chosen bar ends. My other road touring bike is 7 speed and that is enough but the 9 may come in handy off road with this bike.

SlowAndSlower

Personally I am in the process of moving from Ultegra STI 9 spd to Ultegra STI 10 spd with an XT RD and as soon as I can get a 12- 36 Cassette
.Why? I like the shorter 10 spd throw and closer changes. Hoping the 36 offers better middle ring range.

hybridbkrdr

Your comment about the LX groupset made me curious so I took a look at the Shimano Europe web site because that's usually where I saw the LX group. It looks to me like they've switched to SLX. I suspect this because SLX used to have double cranksets with small chainrings. Now, the SLX cranksets listed to me look like the trekking cranksets they used to have.

In any case, I stumbled on this while I was looking. It's the 10-speed Deore trekking group.
Bike24 - Shimano Deore Trekking Groupset V-Brake 3x10-speed - silver
I don't know if you want to use drop bars so I guess you could always choose Microshift 10-speed bar-end shifters at AEBike MicroShift Double/Triple 10 speed Bar End Shift Levers - AEBike.com
and Tektro RL520 drop bar brake levers that are compatible with V-brakes. Tektro RL520 Ergo Brake Lever Set for Linear Pull Black/Silver - AEBike.com (Those are also available at large sites like Niagaracycle.)

In general though, Sun Rhyno Lite rims from what I read are strong enough for tandem bikes.

My 8 speed touring bike is still not complete. It's still in boxes but I like the idea of friction shifting.

hueyhoolihan

OT, but who manufacturers those handlebars, if i may ask?

bikemig 

Sweet looking build and nice paint job. I like the bike a lot.