seafoamer

After years of wanting a touring bicycle, I finally purchased one the other day. It's a 2014 LHT that I ordered through a LBS. I've been riding a super super aggressive road bicycle everywhere for the last few years and have been wanting a more upright riding style. When I went to the LBS to pick it up, I noticed the steer tube had been cut (I'd seen new truckers w/ crazy high steer tubes). The tech said yes, he cut some off. I realy wanted to be the one who made that decision and especially not done w/o me even sitting on the bike. Anyway, at the time I was also very delighted to have the bike for the weekend, so I didn't make a huge issue about it. I rode it alot this weekend and really love it, but can't help wonderin' if I would've liked the steertube higher. As it sits now the bars and saddle are almost even, w/ maybe the bars being a bit higher depending on your perspective. The shop told me they wanted me to be 100% happy w/ the bike and to let them know if I was not. So, I wanted to see if I could get your thoughts. Here's some pix of the bike. What do you think of the bar/saddle height?

MMACH 5

I'd go back and tell them your concern. Have them fit you for the bike.

They should put you on the bike and give you some options for making you a happy customer. I'm guessing the adjustment would be small so It could be as easy as adding spacers.

Brian25

The steer tube on that fork is steel, so technically there is no limit on steer length. For an aluminum steer the limit is 40mm. It appears that the did cut it to where there is 40 mm of spacers. My opinion is that it looks plenty high, it does not sound like you have back issues, as you have been riding a road bike. You have to know higher handlebars will result in a loss of power. (I do not know if you care)
You could go back and let you try out a higher rise stem.

McBTC

If the bike currently is just acceptable and you definitely do not want lower bars but perhaps would at least like to have the option of higher bars, it's possible even the frame size isn't exactly what you need --i.e., it could be a size bigger so that you could if you wanted, have a shorter stem without so much rise and then, even if the bigger bike had a slightly longer top tube you still would have a little play with the seat position: as it is now it looks like you're all the way forward. I question that because, what if you wanted to get your knees a little more back of the pedal spindle? You can't move the seat back without shortening the stem and if you shorten the stem you'll lower the bars unless you get an even steeper rise.

seafoamer

Thanks for the thoughts! (some Doug? guy posted a cool response that he deleted and I was about to reply when my dad called, but now its gone?)
My biggest issues are:

• w/ the steer tube is cut, I don't have the option of going higher. Or even trying to see if I liked it.
• resale value could be lower. Everytime I inquired about a Trucker I saw on Craigslist, I asked the seller if the Steertube had been cut.

seafoamer

This is a 58cm. I've ridden 56cm truckers and they are too small, and 60cm I can't even lift my leg over and my boys are resting on the TT. The 58 is perfect. I just didn't want the ST cut.

treebound 

Some people seem to like to add extra stems to mount accessories and bags and such onto, as is you may or may not have room to do that.

Beyond that my thoughts are that they should have asked you before cutting the tube, but if it is fine to you as is then ride and be happy.

McBTC

Okay, right size for sure. And Surly certainly has its well-deserved following. Looking at that turntable and Marantz or Panasonic receiver in the background I see that you've got exactly what you need (to hell with those fancy new fangled down-sloping top tube frames).

seafoamer

That's another huge point!
This is on Surly's FAQ page:
How many stack spacers can I use on my Surly fork?Hey, go nuts. Seriously, these are beefy steel steer tubes and there is no lawyer breathing down our collective necks saying you can only have a couple of spacers. Geek out, stack 'er all the way up if you like.

seafoamer

The Panasonic receiver was my grandfathers, and while not tube, it's still a pleasure to have and listen to!

seeker333

OP, only you can decide if bike "fits", and your opinion of this will likely change the more you ride and the older you get. If the handlebar is too low, changing fork and stem are most direct remedies.

A new replacement fork costs the shop maybe 75 bux. Offer to go halfsies with them on the cost of new fork. Only problem is all Surly replacement forks come in black only. It will be hard to find a NOS fork in that particular color, unless it is current production (cackipants), in which case LBS can perhaps get one directly from QBP/MN (in the past Surly kept a small collection at the office). Only cheap option is to find some rattle-can paint that is close color match and spray it. This won't work great since rattle-can paint is not terribly durable, especially if it's on top of powdercoat.

Another option is to change to a steeper stem. Make the shop trade you stems at no cost to you (they likely can reuse or sell the old stem). That appears to be a 17 degree stem in OP pics. A 35 deg stem will get the bar up higher. You can make a very accurate prediction of handlebar position using this handy stem calc tool:

Stem Comparison Tool | yojimg.net

Here's an example of good value 26.0mm silver stems available to any QBP-affiliated LBS:

Bicycle Stems - AEBike.com

McBTC

You're good to go...

Equalizing things for a compare, I think you're at what I was going for with this:



and, pretty much what I got, with the no cutting of the steerer tube:




--i.e., a seat height that is about level with riding on the hoods. More rise than that and I think you're beginning to leave the comfort/endurance road geometry and begin to enter the more upright positioning if riding with flat bars.

fietsbob

perhaps the Factory Complete bike had a Steerer cut to that length, buying a separate new fork It will come Un cut .
ask dealer if they can get the same fork in the un cut situation.

sjt78

Beautiful bike and a shame you are not 100% happy with it. I'm not sure if you mentioned at the time of purchase to keep the steerer tube long or uncut, but if they are willing to keep you as a customer I'd ask them to order you a new fork and to cut it to whatever size you want.

seafoamer

I'm very happy to report that that is indeed what they are doing. After a few phone convos today they are ordering a new fork for me that should be here in a few days. It really is not my fault that they cut 2 inches off a steer tube on a bike I pre-paid for w/o asking or sizing me. I had test rode other LHT's at other bike shops who all kept the steertubes stock until the customer bought it and instructed them where to cut. I also don't work and told them repeatedly that I will be around and able to come down to the shop for whatever when it gets in. It never entered my mind that they would cut the steer tube on a bike I already paid for w/o my consent. I think they may be used to doing that for road bikes that they are selling "off the rack". But this is a tour bike, and if I'm out there doing a 3 month tour & get a sore back I want options to maybe flip a spacer under the stem or whatnot.
Anyway, I'm happy that they are doing the right thing.
Thank you for all the comments!!!

gregjones

Hmmmm....perhaps a bit of eye-stutter?

I wouldn't have ever thought that myself. Another thing to poke away, hopefully to be recalled if the need should arise. I'm glad that the dealer made things as easy for you as they could and that you are happy with the final results. Thanks for posting!!!

Tourist in MSN

I think most people for touring want the top of bars about the same height as the top of saddle. But it is a personal preference thing.


My LHT (2004) has a second stem so my handlebar bag is a bit lower.




If you might want to set up a handle bar bag that way, go back now and complain and tell them you want a longer steerer tube. My LHT is a 58 and has an uncut steerer. Note my stem is almost horizontal.

On one of my other touring bikes, I have a 17 degree stem that is exactly horizontal, on this one I could trim 20mm of steerer but I don't see a need to do so. If I sell the bike later, a buyer might want the stem higher so for now I have decided not to cut it.



If you want more steerer tube, go back now instead of waiting.

pacificaslim

Personally, it looks like the person who installed those bars and placed the brake levers has never seen a bicycle before. Roll the bars back up so that their tops are horizontal, then then put the levers on the end like they are supposed to be (front edge of lever should be vertical, not slanted back towards you). The "ramps" of the bars should be horizontal and the brake hoods extend this horizontal space. This will actually raise the ramps a bit. If the levers are then too far away, get a shorter stem.

seafoamer

Exactly! I JUST got my 1st dedicated tour bike and I want as many options as possible open to me. By cutting 2 inches off the ST w/o my consent basically limits my options on all sorts of possible cockpit rigs.
I've done the super aggressive riding style and I wanted this bike to be the antithesis of that:


But the store is going to do me right and they're ordering a new fork. Now that I'm living in the Pacific Northwest, I plan on getting "tour-y" and I want to mess around w/ different setups. I didn't want to drop major cash on a brand new bike only for someone else to make the executive decisions on its permanent set-up.

seafoamer

Good points! I was thinking of doing very similar tweaks to what you're suggesting after yesterday's ride.

DropBarFan

I had the Surly dealer remove about the same amount of LHT steering tube so I have approx same geometry incl slanted stem. I like when drops give a fairly aero position. & one could replace handlebar with one w/less drop. But lots of folks prefer bars higher too. So it's nice your LBS replacing unauthorized cut.

Doug64

Yeah, I didn't like the tone/slant of my response, and when in the process of editing it my wife reminded me we had a meeting in 30 minutes. Rather than go with what I had, I deleted it.

The gist of it was:

It looks like your saddle about level or a little lower than your bars. That is the approximate saddle/bar relationship that a lot of tourers, me included, look for. However, it does take away the option of raising the bars. LHT's are shipped to the LBS with uncut steerer tubes. I think I'd ask for a replacement fork if you are in doubt. It is not an irrevocable decision if you go with what you have; the fork can be replaced later, but probably will be black ($100 Surly fork).

I've changed forks on several bikes to get a longer steerer tube and get the correct bar height. I have very long legs and a relatively short torso which make it hard to dial in a good fit. I've never really been able to get my LHT dialed in, and I've had it for 5 years. I still have not cut the steerer tube.

seafoamer

Ah, Awesome Doug! When I refreshed the page after my phone call I was like "wait, am I seeing things or did some guy name Doug make a cool reply?" Ha!
It's not that I'm opposed terribly to where the bars are now. They actually feel pretty good. It's just that I wanted and intended to mess around with set-ups as I'm a total n00b with this type of bike. I was/am totally siked to mess around w/ set-ups as I love geekin' out on that stuff.
I was kinda beside myself when I walked into the shop and saw that the ST had been cut. But yeah I was told they're getting me a Smog Silver one from the factory and I really don't want to accept anything other than that. It would've taken them 30 seconds to pick up the phone and ask me if I wanted the ST cut or what my thoughts were on it. Not acceptable for a bike I had already paid for and didn't get to see or test ride.
Thanks for posting again, Doug! Your picture is the type of ST set-up that's been in my mind's eye of what I want until "I" get comfortable enough on the bike to make more permanent decisions about it.

jargo432

When I built my DT I cut the steer tube. After riding a few months I realized I wanted it higher so I put a steer tuber extender on it. (I had to put on longer brake cables to compensate) It ain't pretty but I like it a lot better.

Dimension Steerer Extender > Components > Handlebars, Headsets and Saddles > Stem Parts | Jenson USA

Tourist in MSN

I like the top of my handlebars to be horizontal, but I like the top of hoods to be angled slightly upward, not an extension of the horizontal handlebar. In my photo of a second stem above, you can see that quite well. If my hoods were horizontal, my hands would want to slide forward as I lean on them.

When I set up a new bike, I just use short pieces of strapping tape to hold my cables in place for a week or two while I get my levers exactly where I want them on the handlebars. Then when finally done, put on the tape.

If you want interrupter brake levers, do that before replacing the tape.

On one of my bikes, I did cut the steerer tube. It is an S&S bike and I wanted to shorten the fork for packing for travel. But I did not want to take the risk that it was too short, so I left it sort of longish, then later cut it a little more, then again one more time to get it exactly where I want it. Cutting a steerer tube is best done with great care.