The "Ultimate" Rain Jacket?
07-13-15, 01:26 PM
#51
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Maybe the air permeable jacket wouldn't make me sweat in 40F weather like every other rain jacket I've tried. If I were to go on a long tour where it was raining pretty hard most of the day, most every day, and was camping with a small tent, I'd definitely consider one. I just don't see the point of going on long tours where it'll be raining pretty hard, most of the day, most every day.
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07-13-15, 02:52 PM
#52
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Hooo boy...
So I know these are novel modern ideas but umm... ever heard of water or detergents or washing machines? Also mid layers and top layers don't need nearly as much washing as base layer. And as base layer merino wool is pretty much the best stuff out there.
I mean depending on the time of year the only stuff that really needs frequent washing of any sort are the bibs and jerseys (nope, won't be shelling out near $100 for merino wool jerseys a piece)
I cannot see how this is so difficult. Summer rains is one thing and then you don't even need the wool stuff. But getting all wet with wool and then getting into a sleeping bag in the late autumn / winter / early spring is inviting trouble.
So I know these are novel modern ideas but umm... ever heard of water or detergents or washing machines? Also mid layers and top layers don't need nearly as much washing as base layer. And as base layer merino wool is pretty much the best stuff out there.
I mean depending on the time of year the only stuff that really needs frequent washing of any sort are the bibs and jerseys (nope, won't be shelling out near $100 for merino wool jerseys a piece)
I cannot see how this is so difficult. Summer rains is one thing and then you don't even need the wool stuff. But getting all wet with wool and then getting into a sleeping bag in the late autumn / winter / early spring is inviting trouble.
I stopped wearing jerseys. I also stopped riding for awhile, and when I started again, none of my jerseys would fit! Obviously they had shrunk in the closet...so rather than size up to my newfound, bigger, older self, I just started using what I had. I'm with you on those $100 jerseys.
I typically go touring where it can and does get cold now and then, and pack accordingly. My wool stuff dries out fine overnight, and I always have a second, dry set. And if it rains hard two days in a row? Did I mention that I don't go touring where that kind of stuff happens?
Everyone has their own style of riding. I'm just one of those guys that looks at the latest gear and see it as just another perceived barrier to entry in the grand pastime of bicycle touring. I'm sure there are situations where some new fabric will outperform my hoary old wool gear. I just haven't ridden where I've not been happy with what I've got.
I see lots of studies on the new air permeable fabrics versus, say Goretex. When I start seeing a lot of them comparing them to wool, I'll start studying that for awhile before I consider buying the new super-fabric.
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07-13-15, 03:28 PM
#53
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Generally as good as or better than the wool stuff that I have tried. Of my tech running shirts some tend to stink after a few days and some don't. On tour I take the ones that don't. Maybe I have weird body chemistry or something but wool never delivered the no stink promise for me. When I have taken wool on tour it was the stinkiest thing I had along and was slow to dry if it ever dried at all.
I come from a whitewater boating background that predated tech garments. I wore lots of wool, but was very happy when synthetics displaced it for me.
I tend to wear Nike DriFit or similar tech running tees that I find on sale for $6-12 at Ross or the Nike outlet. C9 stuff from Target is what I'd use if I didn't find good deals at Ross or the Nike outlet.
I find the tech tees to be easy to wash out in a sink (or a zip lock bag) and get them nearly dry quickly, so washing them can happen as often as water is available. I often take only one for a trip, so I take it off wash it out by hand and put it back on. There are time I wear them a few days without bothering to wash them though.
07-13-15, 03:44 PM
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Yeah, I took the bait too many times, but did stop quite a while ago.
Generally as good as or better than the wool stuff that I have tried. Of my tech running shirts some tend to stink after a few days and some don't. On tour I take the ones that don't. Maybe I have weird body chemistry or something but wool never delivered the no stink promise for me. When I have taken wool on tour it was the stinkiest thing I had along and was slow to dry if it ever dried at all.
Generally as good as or better than the wool stuff that I have tried. Of my tech running shirts some tend to stink after a few days and some don't. On tour I take the ones that don't. Maybe I have weird body chemistry or something but wool never delivered the no stink promise for me. When I have taken wool on tour it was the stinkiest thing I had along and was slow to dry if it ever dried at all.
UV light is a well known germicidal.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultrav...al_irradiation
Last edited by erig007; 07-13-15 at 05:05 PM.
07-13-15, 04:04 PM
#55
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Yeah, I took the bait too many times, but did stop quite a while ago.
Generally as good as or better than the wool stuff that I have tried. Of my tech running shirts some tend to stink after a few days and some don't. On tour I take the ones that don't. Maybe I have weird body chemistry or something but wool never delivered the no stink promise for me. When I have taken wool on tour it was the stinkiest thing I had along and was slow to dry if it ever dried at all.
I come from a whitewater boating background that predated tech garments. I wore lots of wool, but was very happy when synthetics displaced it for me.
I tend to wear Nike DriFit or similar tech running tees that I find on sale for $6-12 at Ross or the Nike outlet. C9 stuff from Target is what I'd use if I didn't find good deals at Ross or the Nike outlet.
I find the tech tees to be easy to wash out in a sink (or a zip lock bag) and get them nearly dry quickly, so washing them can happen as often as water is available. I often take only one for a trip, so I take it off wash it out by hand and put it back on. There are time I wear them a few days without bothering to wash them though.
Generally as good as or better than the wool stuff that I have tried. Of my tech running shirts some tend to stink after a few days and some don't. On tour I take the ones that don't. Maybe I have weird body chemistry or something but wool never delivered the no stink promise for me. When I have taken wool on tour it was the stinkiest thing I had along and was slow to dry if it ever dried at all.
I come from a whitewater boating background that predated tech garments. I wore lots of wool, but was very happy when synthetics displaced it for me.
I tend to wear Nike DriFit or similar tech running tees that I find on sale for $6-12 at Ross or the Nike outlet. C9 stuff from Target is what I'd use if I didn't find good deals at Ross or the Nike outlet.
I find the tech tees to be easy to wash out in a sink (or a zip lock bag) and get them nearly dry quickly, so washing them can happen as often as water is available. I often take only one for a trip, so I take it off wash it out by hand and put it back on. There are time I wear them a few days without bothering to wash them though.
Except my wool. Maybe I just prefer the odiferous smell of wool? Maybe I learned to like it as a kid, whereas I think Vegemite stinks, and my father in law (who grew up in Australia) thinks it smells just fine.
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If someone tells you that you have enough bicycles and you don't need any more, stop talking to them. You don't need that kind of negativity in your life.
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07-13-15, 06:09 PM
#56
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I was blissfully happy with a Sugoi membrane hacker for a few years/rainstorms, and I liked it so much that inbought a second, better fitting one.
The first quite literally disintegrated in a heave storm, with the membrane peeling away from the mesh, and the second just stopped working after a couple of years. I now have the Showers Pass Elite, although It spends more time stuffed up in my panniers in case it rains than on my back.
Do jackets have a shelf life?
The first quite literally disintegrated in a heave storm, with the membrane peeling away from the mesh, and the second just stopped working after a couple of years. I now have the Showers Pass Elite, although It spends more time stuffed up in my panniers in case it rains than on my back.
Do jackets have a shelf life?
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07-14-15, 05:31 PM
#57
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"Breathable" equates to air flow. Shower Pass jackets offer a lot of ventilation. Thus, a lot of air flow. That's about all you can expect in rain protection and comfort.
07-14-15, 08:54 PM
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I'm out west now. A waterproof ski parka with long underwear is your best friend. After you get wet your primary concern is staying warm. Ski parka is loose. Very important .
Wyoming is brutal.
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07-14-15, 09:06 PM
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Lol, not here in the wet west (ok usually wet), wearing a ski parka is like traveling with a portable sauna.
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07-14-15, 09:23 PM
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Forums seem to have lots of bikers endorsing Showers Pass--the Elite sounds nice--what about some of their lower-priced breathable jackets? ShowersPass.com has some lighter-weight jackets with "2.5" layer membrane, the "Storm" is only $85--anyone tried this? Price almost seems too low--$60 Performance Boroughs doesn't seem to work very well--I'd be inclined to go for the Elite rather than gamble again.
07-15-15, 03:42 AM
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Forums seem to have lots of bikers endorsing Showers Pass--the Elite sounds nice--what about some of their lower-priced breathable jackets? ShowersPass.com has some lighter-weight jackets with "2.5" layer membrane, the "Storm" is only $85--anyone tried this? Price almost seems too low--$60 Performance Boroughs doesn't seem to work very well--I'd be inclined to go for the Elite rather than gamble again.
I wouldn't bother with the artex products as they don't seem to be very good. The elite seems a better choice.
2 artex products
Showers Pass Storm Jacket review | road.cc
Breathability is another matter though. To be fair to Showers Pass they don't make great claims for the Storm on that front. It scores two stars out of five on their own scale, which means it "provides some moisture vapor transfer, but if you're riding hard enough to sweat, especially in cold and rainy conditions, you will probably see some condensation on the inside of the garment."
Verdict
Easy to pack with decent waterproofing though a relaxed fit and mediocre breathability means its price is hard to swallow.
Easy to pack with decent waterproofing though a relaxed fit and mediocre breathability means its price is hard to swallow.
Showers Pass Elite Pro jacket review | road.cc
Breathability is very good. In light rain when the water is still running off the fabric it's excellent, the performance degrades once the outer layer is wetted, as you'd expect. Regular treatment with a hydrophobic agent like Nikwax TX-Direct will help there. Even when wet the vents are well-placed to give you some ventilation without letting in too much rain.
https://www.wildthingsgear.com/blogs/...layer-gore-tex
The key data point to note is the Mullens Burst after DEET Exposure and this test suggests that eVent is more prone to contamination, impacting its ability to maintain waterproofness over time. When you compare GORE-TEX® Light and Fast to eVent, GORE-TEX® wins on weight and durability. GORE-TEX® is significantly lighter weight and more durably waterproof than eVent while sharing similar stiffness and breathability characteristics.
Marmot essence jacket
https://www.gearinstitute.com/hiking/...marmot-essence
Weathershedding
In a pouring rain we slogged along on an epic mountain bike ride, but we never felt a chill. A great hood slid over our helmet and stayed in place, while the rest of the jacket kept us bone dry until the soaker moved along. Despite its superlight 12 denier weight, the fabric still cut a chilly breeze on a ridgetop hike.
Breathability
Like Mountain Hardwear's DryQElite and Polartec's Neoshell, Marmot’s NanoPro membrane uses air permeability to increase breathability. Essentially, the membrane’s structure allows fresh air to enter the jacket and soak up some of the humidity without impacting water or wind resistance. While the details of each system are proprietary secrets, we can say Marmot seems to have done it best. In the rainy ride we mentioned above we expected to be a sweating mess in minutes, but instead we were comfortable for an hour of wet XC riding. Another tester remarked on how comfy he was on a humid trail run. A contributing factor are vents cut into the jacket in the pits that noticeably sucked warm air out.
In a pouring rain we slogged along on an epic mountain bike ride, but we never felt a chill. A great hood slid over our helmet and stayed in place, while the rest of the jacket kept us bone dry until the soaker moved along. Despite its superlight 12 denier weight, the fabric still cut a chilly breeze on a ridgetop hike.
Breathability
Like Mountain Hardwear's DryQElite and Polartec's Neoshell, Marmot’s NanoPro membrane uses air permeability to increase breathability. Essentially, the membrane’s structure allows fresh air to enter the jacket and soak up some of the humidity without impacting water or wind resistance. While the details of each system are proprietary secrets, we can say Marmot seems to have done it best. In the rainy ride we mentioned above we expected to be a sweating mess in minutes, but instead we were comfortable for an hour of wet XC riding. Another tester remarked on how comfy he was on a humid trail run. A contributing factor are vents cut into the jacket in the pits that noticeably sucked warm air out.
Water Resistance
This rain jacket kept us dry as a bone during our test in the shower. The large, stiffened brim on this model provides more protection for the face and eyes than others we tested, and the waterproof zippers up the front and on the chest pocket seal out all water. Both have a small fabric cover for their completety closed position. The ultralight wrist cuffs on this jacket cannot be cinched down around the wrist, but the elastic fit our lead tester's wrist snugly enough to mimimize water entry when raised overhead.
The DryTouch DWR finish that Marmot uses on this fabric's exterior performs exceptionally well. This model will continue to bead water a good long while before needing to be restored
Breathability
The Marmot Essence distinguishes itself with the most advanced waterproof/breathable fabric we evaluated. Marmot's new NanoPro 2.5-layer laminate technology is plenty waterproof and provides better sweat wicking performance than any other we tested. The NanoPro fabrics are the first to provide dynamic air permeability, greatly enhancing this jacket's ability to keep you dry and comfy inside during high energy activities. This laminate is thinner and has more densely packed smaller pores than earlier generations
This rain jacket kept us dry as a bone during our test in the shower. The large, stiffened brim on this model provides more protection for the face and eyes than others we tested, and the waterproof zippers up the front and on the chest pocket seal out all water. Both have a small fabric cover for their completety closed position. The ultralight wrist cuffs on this jacket cannot be cinched down around the wrist, but the elastic fit our lead tester's wrist snugly enough to mimimize water entry when raised overhead.
The DryTouch DWR finish that Marmot uses on this fabric's exterior performs exceptionally well. This model will continue to bead water a good long while before needing to be restored
Breathability
The Marmot Essence distinguishes itself with the most advanced waterproof/breathable fabric we evaluated. Marmot's new NanoPro 2.5-layer laminate technology is plenty waterproof and provides better sweat wicking performance than any other we tested. The NanoPro fabrics are the first to provide dynamic air permeability, greatly enhancing this jacket's ability to keep you dry and comfy inside during high energy activities. This laminate is thinner and has more densely packed smaller pores than earlier generations
Last edited by erig007; 07-15-15 at 04:25 AM.
07-15-15, 05:13 AM
#62
Full Member
Forums seem to have lots of bikers endorsing Showers Pass--the Elite sounds nice--what about some of their lower-priced breathable jackets? ShowersPass.com has some lighter-weight jackets with "2.5" layer membrane, the "Storm" is only $85--anyone tried this? Price almost seems too low--$60 Performance Boroughs doesn't seem to work very well--I'd be inclined to go for the Elite rather than gamble again.
07-15-15, 06:29 AM
#63
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Just noticed that my jacket can pack into its own pocket. Haven't got the hang of it until now. This thread is useful 
Last edited by erig007; 07-15-15 at 07:03 AM.
07-15-15, 01:12 PM
#65
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Well, so much for narrowing down research time
Thanks for the tips, I may have a few follow-up questions in a bit.
Thanks for the tips, I may have a few follow-up questions in a bit.
07-15-15, 10:09 PM
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Adding my jacket in the process
Marmot essence jacket
Marmot Essence - Gear Institute
Marmot Essence Review - OutdoorGearLab
Marmot essence jacket
Marmot Essence - Gear Institute
Marmot Essence Review - OutdoorGearLab
07-15-15, 10:48 PM
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Thanks for the tips. Marmot Essence sound pretty nice, only 1 pocket though I suppose that's not a deal breaker. Essence includes a hood which is helpful in downpours. Showers Pass Elite surprisingly has no hood despite being $50 more. Jacket could be 100% waterproof & 100% breathable but if rain trickles down the neck what's the use?
Marmot Super Mica Jacket - Men's | Backcountry.com
Not sure all the reviews are about the updated version. Not sure if it is a 2.5 layers or 3.
A review here
https://sunrisegear.blogspot.ca/2014/...ca-jacket.html
One little mistake in the review, the essence has always opened underarm openings. No underarm pit zips but it's pretty much the same.
Regarding the hood of SP elite some people prefer to add their own hood to have it at the right size.
On the essence my helmet is covered at about 90% though there isn't much room left to breath
(joking, you can unzip to make more room)
Last edited by erig007; 07-15-15 at 11:06 PM.
07-16-15, 05:52 AM
#69
Senior Member
I have used a Frogg Toggs poncho for backpacking and loved it as well. I haven't actually worn any Frogg Toggs products on tour though I did carry a poncho on one tour, but never needed it. I don't mind getting wet while riding as long as it is at least 50 F or so, but once in camp a poncho can be nice. At least that is my theory. I have not used one on a rainy tour though so I hesitate to give it a strong recommend.
I have not used the Frogg Toggs pants or jackets on tour, but suspect they could work out pretty well for some folks. They are pretty light and fairly inexpensive. Anyone here tour with them?
I have not used the Frogg Toggs pants or jackets on tour, but suspect they could work out pretty well for some folks. They are pretty light and fairly inexpensive. Anyone here tour with them?
07-16-15, 05:57 AM
#70
Senior Member
It never occurred to me that pockets were a plus on a rain jacket for bike touring. Mine has a couple pockets and I don't think I have ever put anything in them when on tour. Everything gets carried where ever it would if the jacket were packed away.
07-16-15, 09:58 PM
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AFAIK the Marmot Super Mica is not cycling-specific so tail-section is a bit short.
I now see that Showers Pass sells a separate but attachable rain hood so the hood-equipped Showers Pass Elite 2.1 would be $75 more than the Marmot Essence. & also it turns out that Elite 2.1 doesn't have side pockets (to warm hands), those are in the back, jersey-style.
Regarding the hood of SP elite some people prefer to add their own hood to have it at the right size.
On the essence my helmet is covered at about 90% though there isn't much room left to breath (joking, you can unzip to make more room)
On the essence my helmet is covered at about 90% though there isn't much room left to breath
(joking, you can unzip to make more room)
07-16-15, 11:38 PM
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Even if it was too short it's easy to make a tail with a few binder clips and a plastic bag. Doesn't need to breath there. With the cinch cord down there those binder clips will go nowhere.
Last edited by erig007; 07-16-15 at 11:44 PM.
07-17-15, 06:28 AM
#74
Senior Member
That works if you want to carry a phone and wallet in the jacket, but I have never wanted to carry either in my rain jacket. To me the rain jacket is typically something that is not used every day (some trips not at all) and when it is will be probably taken on and off frequently as conditions change. Also when I go inside I am likely to take it off and hang it.
I have been rained on a bit most tours, but have almost never worn a rain jacket all day. When used, it typically goes on for an hour or two and then is taken off. All that makes rain jacket pockets a poor place to carry stuff at least in my typical usage. So, for me, pockets just add cost and a bit of weight with no real increase in functionality. I'd just as soon have none.
As far as pocket stuff goes...
I typically don't carry a wallet on tour. I trim down to a drivers license, health insurance card, a couple credit cards, a debit card, and a bit of cash. That all takes up almost no space in the 1 quart ziploc bag that holds my phone. It goes in a jersey pocket if I wear a jersey, if not it will be in a small light backpack or a handlebar bag. That ziploc doesn't even need to be very accessible when on the bike since I typically turn the phone off all day.
At home I carry a pocket knife, but on tour any knife is usually packed away.
The other pocket item folks sometimes list is keys. I typically either take no keys or only take one key and pack it away since I won't need it until I am either back to my car or back home.
I have been rained on a bit most tours, but have almost never worn a rain jacket all day. When used, it typically goes on for an hour or two and then is taken off. All that makes rain jacket pockets a poor place to carry stuff at least in my typical usage. So, for me, pockets just add cost and a bit of weight with no real increase in functionality. I'd just as soon have none.
As far as pocket stuff goes...
I typically don't carry a wallet on tour. I trim down to a drivers license, health insurance card, a couple credit cards, a debit card, and a bit of cash. That all takes up almost no space in the 1 quart ziploc bag that holds my phone. It goes in a jersey pocket if I wear a jersey, if not it will be in a small light backpack or a handlebar bag. That ziploc doesn't even need to be very accessible when on the bike since I typically turn the phone off all day.
At home I carry a pocket knife, but on tour any knife is usually packed away.
The other pocket item folks sometimes list is keys. I typically either take no keys or only take one key and pack it away since I won't need it until I am either back to my car or back home.
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