jonc123

Hello, first post here. Mostly about touring, but an introduction of sorts also.

Name is Jon, I am mid to late forties, 5' 11" and 190 pounds. I recently lost 30 pounds and exercise daily and am trying to add another different type of exercise in addition to fitness walking and the gym. Ready to pedal on some tires in the great outdoors.

About 6 or 7 years ago my wife and I decided to purchase some decent but low cost bikes to try out bike touring. Let me backtrack a little...we are also lightweight backpackers and have all of the gear required for bike touring so it seemed natural to maybe do some camping on bikes. We purchased Treks (7.2 models) and put rear racks on them. These bikes did OK, we did our Rails to Trails here in Missouri (Katy Trail) and lots of weekend overnight trips to state parks, etc. No cabins or hotels...tent only which we prefer.

We kind of slacked off the bike trips for a few years but still backpacked on a regular basis. We have no children and have lots of spare time. The bikes probably needed a better setup such as better bar placement, different bars and things of that nature. I kind of sat around and stared at the bike instead of riding it because I knew it wouldn't do what I wanted to do. Wife didn't think hers was the best for bike camping also.

Fast forward today...I went to the Surly dealer here in St. Louis and got fitted for not one but two LHTs. Non-Disc, both 26", a 54 for me and 50 for my wife. They didn't have them in stock so they are on order. They did have a 56 which I tried out on the fitting gizmo. They measured this and that and told me I needed the 54 instead. I agreed. Too long of a reach with my arms locked into position. They had a 52 which my wife tried but it seemed big to my wife and the salesperson taking the measurements.

Should be in by the middle of next month. We went ahead and ordered tires, Marathon Plus and some pedals for me (MKS Sylvan, the big rat trap pedals which I love). We are sold on these tires as we have lots of glass and debri where we ride at times. They are heavy but suit our slow going style and worked very well in the past. We are not fast riders and do lots of flat land stuff, hoping to develop some muscles to get in some small hills!!

We hope to expand our bike riding by taking some trips to maybe the gulf coast (Grand Isle, LA) in particular, Dauphin Island, AL. Stuff like that in the cooler parts of the year. We won't be riding from Missouri to the gulf but driving to the gulf with the bikes and starting the trip from there. No cross country trips as we still punch that clock for now.

I do have a few questions:

I am still confused about racks. Can't decide. The surly racks look heavy and are expensive enough I need to look at other options also. I just need rear racks for now. Our gear is compact and we have the two of us to carry it. I may be interested in some kind of front platform rack to rest things on. Have no idea what I need. Any suggestions as to what specific racks would work?

I am also looking for a *easily removable* rear red light (flashing??) to use during the night and day. I have some nice small LED flashlights I can fashion a mount for night riding...we don't really ever bike at night but you never know. I want to be seen better than we are now. Upgrading from the reflective clothing we have now.

Any special care for the frame concerning rust?

If you can think of anything else that should be on my list let me know...I already have all of the camping gear dialed in from years of backpacking.

Lots of our riding has been in protected bike lanes, etc. and getting out on the open road a little more will be new to us. We will have some things to learn.

Thanks a bunch, I have picked up much information from the helpful folks here.

Jon

treebound 

You or the shop can spray framesaver, but you should let it set up and dry for a few days and to give it time to stop dripping out of the weep holes in the frame tubes. Easier to spray it into a bare frame though.

A recent thread had someone with a new LHT where the shop chopped the steerer tube too short for their likes. So you may want to check with the bike shop to make sure they don't shorten the tubes until you have some miles on the bike and see how you want them set up and see how you want the cockpit configured. Some people add second stems on to mount lights or bags or computers or cameras on. Look up the thread to read the discussion and get ideas of what others do.

Otherwise enjoy the new bikes and put lots of miles on them.

geehue

Enjoy! I did a week-long tour a few years back with friends on a Surly Cross-Check. It was a lot of fun.

seeker333

Surly racks ARE heavy and expensive, especially the front. I recommend the Tubus Cargo EVO, and a Tara for the front if you want lowriders. Tubus are simply the best with an unrivaled reputation and warranty. Get the 26" (13mm shorter) version for your bikes.

https://www.tubus.com/index.php

https://www.modernbike.com/product-21...7g4aAnh78P8HAQ

There are many taillights that are adequate for night use, but only two adequate for daytime (sunny day) visibility. Dinotte Daytime Red and DesignShine DS500 - both ~300 bux. The DS-500 is more powerful (>lumens) and can be turned down to use at night (Dinotte lumens cannot be reduced for night, potentially blinding motorists). I own an old Dinotte, but after watching DS-500 development for 3 years I finally bought one, and I was not disappointed.

I also recommend hi-viz (fluorescent dyed) tee shirts. Long sleeves are even more visible plus provide some sun protection, no lotion needed. Hi-viz bike jerseys cost more but don't usually provide any more comfort or safety. Target/WalMart sells these nowadays for work wear, although some have reflective striping which is useless during day and actually reduces visibility of shirt.

https://alertshirt.stores.yahoo.net/poloslmtanco.html

https://store.dinottelighting.com/day...ount-p188.aspx

https://www.designshinelighting.com/content.php

There are a couple aerosol sprays for rustproofing. A possibly more thorough, enduring treatment is boiled linseed oil from any hardware. I've used a pistol oiler+tubing+grease gun needle fitting to rustproof several steel frames over the years. It's messy and takes an hour or so, but the frame/fork never rusts afterwards. The manual methods gets you into nooks and crannies with greater confidence than the aerosols. This is easier to do on a frameset before building rather than a complete bike.

https://www.amazon.com/Weigles-Bicycl.../dp/B0012GO58Y

If you buy cheap tee shirts plus DIY rustproofing for a few years, you'll eventually save enough to pay the extra cost for the good racks and taillights

PS good tip from treebound - Specify to LBS to NOT cut steerer tube on LHT Complete.

jonc123

No chopped steerer tube....OK

I'll call the shop about the steerer tube, but I don't think they would cut it...the 56 I tried was not cut but I'll make sure.

Can I access all of the weep holes with the bike assembled and how often does it need repeated?

Thanks,

Jon

bikemig 

If you are into lightweight backpacking, you should look into backpacking. If you google the term, you'll find a bunch of threads and websites on this. Some people ditch the racks and panniers for various soft bags which saves quite a bit of weight over more traditional set up for bike touring.

I like rear racks though but the surly racks are pretty expensive. Tubes racks are very good; so are Jandd racks.

For a rear blinky, I just picked up the nite rider solar. The cyrgolite hotshot is also very good. Both are usb powered though. You may want one that runs off batteries if you are thinking about long distance touring. The planet bike super flash turbo is very good and runs off triple A batteries.

I wouldn't worry about using some sort of frame saver. I would stay on top of the bike by keeping the frame and components clean. With a bit of care, your bike will last you a lifetime.

seeker333

The weep holes are actually vent holes necessary for the TIG welding process, and they are usually too small. You'll have to remove crankset/BB to treat BB/CS/DT, fork to treat HT/TT/DT and seat post to treat ST/TT/SS.

Ideally you also need a garage/shed where you can leave bikes for days while the rustproofing dries, because it stinks too much (like paint drying) for indoors. BLO is so thick it lasts forever, just like paint, but sprays only claim "months", although most users spray only once, primarily for their peace-of-mind (correction - most users never do anything in this regard).

jonc123

Lots of info.

seeker333....I already have hi-viz shirts we use to bike and walk with, the greenish/yellow ones. I get them from a nearby construction company for $7.00 each. I replace them when they dull. I have a reflective/high viz vest (comes in sizes) from Grainger. It is lightweight and durable. We use these for walking also. The DS-500 looks like the tailight I want although $$. I would want this light for daytime mostly but the dimming would be a must have. It looks like what I want, but we will need two of them. I will check out the Tubus Cargo EVO, and the Tara...I have seen the name Tubus all over the touring forum, must be something good to look at!

bikemig...I would never ditch the racks, I tried once to do an overnight trip by wearing a pack while riding. I never did that again. With my soon to be old bike I had the problem of hands/palms going numb and that just made that worse also. In fact, made me not want to ride. Wrong bike fit also along with wrong bars.

Steerer tube not cut, check! I'll call them to make sure. I'll wait a few days, I've bugged them enough already. This place is into fitting bikes, they have the motion capturing system, Pedal Hard/Retul Fitting machine, Serotta Size Cycle & Computrainer Performance Fit machine. I have no idea what exactly all of that is but one of them, don't remember which one costs about $300.00 and takes 2-3 hours. I didn't need all of that. I don't think they would cut the tube. I'll check though. I'll ask them about the frame treatment, if it's not an arm & leg I'll have them do it.'

How much assembly do they have to do when they get the bike?

Thanks,

Jon

DanBell

I think bikemig got autocorrected out of what he wanted to type, which was 'bikepacking.' This entails lightening your load and using smaller frame bags rather than racks and panniers. Not many here will endorse riding a bike while carrying your gear in a backpack.

jonc123

Much more clear! Thanks.

edthesped

Not that I'm overly concerned about it, but I shoot Boeshield T- in the weep holes on the chainstays, lower forks, and waterbottle mounts during my winter cleanup. I have the tires off and the bike in a stand and just rotate the bike at different angles for a few minutes each. Not sure how well it works but I don't see any rust. OTOH, I have an integral garage so the bikes are stored in for all intents and purposes a climate controlled area and I'm sure that does far more to keep the rust down than the Boeshield.

Edit: +1 on the uncut steerer, I don't cut mine even when it means having a pile of shims on top of the stem as I never know if I might want to raise the stem.

treebound 

For the rust preventative, you need to be able to rotate the frame so that all internal surfaces get some coating during the drying process which is also when you'll get drips out of the weep/vent holes, and also tracking some on the outside surfaces, so it will also need a good cleaning once mostly dried. I just have someone else do it for you. As noted above, the bottom bracket / crankset will need to be removed to do it well.

Not sure how assembled the Surly completes arrive, but might be similar to other brands where you might need to install cables, brake levers are probably installed with the handlebars off the neck and zip tied to the top tube, rear wheel probably on the bike, crank installed but pedals removed, derailleurs installed but needing adjustment, fork installed but needing a final check once the stem/handlebar is attached to the steerer tube, wouldn't hurt to check wheel bearing adjustments and spoke tension as well as wheel trueness. At least that is what I've seen while working at a shop a few years ago.

If the shop is as well equipped for fitting as you say they are then they would probably want you to pester them with any thoughts or concerns as soon as possible (such as steerer tube cutting) in the interest of customer satisfaction. Call them first thing in the morning and ask for a rain check on steerer tube cutting. Some roadies have an adverse reaction to steerer tubes protruding above the stem, kind of like black black socks and sandels while wearing bermuda shorts on the beach, so whomever initially assembles your bikes may not even consider leaving the stem long.

pacificaslim

I seem to recall that the smaller frames come with 26" wheels and the larger with 700C. Which is your 54 coming with? If you have a choice, it might be nice to get the 26" so the bikes will match and you can carry fewer spares if you go on a long tour. (For example, some people bring a spare tire and you guys could just bring one since the odds of both having a tire issue are rare).

jonc123

I will call them first thing in the morning. Good idea.

I don't get why the bike shops don't try to sell the rust job as an add on?

jonc123

I looked at all of these lights. Have you looked at the new Dinotte? It looks like you can adjust the output, and it does have quick release.

NEW Quad RED Taillight with built in battery ? DiNotte Lighting USA Online Store

I like it because of the built in battery and the USB charger. Opinions?

Thanks,

Jon

Tourist in MSN

I bought the Surly racks. Later I decided to buy the Tubus Ergo front and Tubus Logo EVO rear. The Surly racks were too heavy and big. For around home use, I use cheaper racks, I only put those Tubus racks on for touring.

The Logo EVO holds the panniers very well down low and is very solid while still being light. But the top platform is extremely narrow, so if you wanted to use a rack top bag, that is not the right rack for you. In the photo you can see that my small duffel sits on the panniers, not on the rack, so the narrow platform is not a problem for me. I think that the narrow platform makes it more solid - less flexible.



For most of your questions you are getting good answers, but you are not getting a lot of info on lights. For rear light, there are lots of very good ones out there. I suggest you mount it on the bike, not on a bag or pannier. On the bike you can aim it straight back much better to make sure that traffic behind you actually sees the light. I have two taillights on the bike in teh photo below. The bracket is actually designed for seatpost, but I wrapped a strip of inner tube rubber about a half in wide around the rack tubing to make it as fat as a seatpost, then installed each light on the rack that way. During the day I set it for flash mode, during the night I want the lights to be on constant on mode to make it easier for drivers to get depth perception.



The lights I use are not sold in stores in USA, so I am not recommending a specific one. If a bike shop really wants to sell you a good light, they will let you put batteries in it so you can try it out to see how tight the beam.

Both photos are from the same trip, thus both photos have the same Tubus racks.

treebound 

Ties up a bike hook for several days, requires someone to keep track of where they are in the drying process, and when all is said and done the shop would have to charge way too much to make it a viable business option for them. A few manufacturers supply their framesets already framesavered (not a word but it works even if wrong), I forget if Salsa or Soma or All City does this, but one of them does since I read about it when I was getting ready to buy one before I found my current Trek 520 recently.

Also, most bikes don't get enough miles on them and don't get rained on (unless left parked outside) for most people to even need their frames rust saver coated. But for those of us who care about our bikes and might keep and use them for many years, the rust prevention is a nice thing to do.

mstateglfr 

Journey - Journey Racks - Racks - Products - Axiom Performance Gear

$30 for a rack that has a bunch of mounting points, is compatible with all sizes of tires, and holds up to 150lbs.
My 8yo has sat on mine, but that's the most weight I've had on it.

No point in spending a bunch of money if it isby needed. Better to spend it on some panbags you guys like.

DropBarFan

Serfas USL-TL60 tail light is very bright (not as bright as Dinotte IIRC) & now Serfas has an 80-lumen version. TL-60 has a handy seatpost mount, quick removal/attachment. Mostly always used steel frames & never got rust treatment. I think that alloy steel normally only gets superficial rust at the worst.

Tandem Tom

I built up our LHT's about 1 1/2 years ago. Like you I selected the 26" wheel and not disc version. Call Wayne at The Touring Store for racks and panniers. He is fantastic!! We rode cross country last year and will be heading to the Canadian Maritimes in a few weeks for a 5 week tour.
BTW we run Schwalbe Marathon Supreme 2" tires. Nice comfy ride!

indyfabz

If you want a strong rack with a front platform, the Nitto Big from Rivendell is nice:







My GF also has a black LHT. Smallest size they make. It was her 2011 birthday present. She's a lucky girl to have me.

indyfabz

The larger size are available with either 700c or 26". The smaller sizes are only available with 26".

jonc123

Lots of great info. I have read every post. I will do some more light and rack/pannier research. The shop I am buying the bike from does have a few racks, but I don't want to be stuck with what they have and can order. The bags we have now clip on the top of the rack and would be level with the top. They are pretty small compared to what I saw out in Colorado on bikes while on vacation a couple weeks ago. My gear is compact, designed for backpacking and lightweight. I am used to carrying very little. Less is better.

I just didn't feel the need for the disc version. Most of the time I want the latest and greatest but they just didn't jump out at me. Don't know why. Most of the places we ride are fairly flat, I can drag my foot and stop if i want to!

As far as the racks go, we have to get something to get started. Whatever we get if they are not perfect, I can make them work.

I did have another bike, a Schwinn I took two trips on our Katy Trail in Missouri (250 mile rail to trail). This was before I had my Trek. I had forgotton about this bike.

Here is a picture of my Schwinn in 2004 I took on the Katy Trail in Missouri (rails to trails). This is a <$200.00 bike. I still have those same bags. This picture is also in the stickied thread of the loaded touring bikes at the top on the last page. You can do a lot with little if you want!

We still have these bags, I don't know the brand but they have worked well and are in 100% great shape. We will start with them. That cooler kept the beer cold, I no longer drink. My wife carried the sleeping bags and tents on top of her rack. Don't laugh at the camo paint job!!

We used trash bags for waterproofness.

I can upgrade bags later.

jonc123

Mine will be 26". 54 comes that way only.

Tourist in MSN

I bought a used bike for $5 that had been stored outside for over 10 years. Frame is a bit rusty but is still structurally sound. I estimated how long the bike had been outside based on the diameter of the tree than had grown up through the frame. (The seller had to use a saw to cut down the tree.) The bottom bracket was hard to get out from rust, but otherwise with a lot of new parts it makes a great errand bike. Second photo is after my rebuild, I decided to leave the rusty handlebars on, they make the bike a bit more theft proof.



Since I store this bike outside, I did frame saver the frame. But I would not bother to strip everything off of a bike just to apply framesaver. But if the frame is bare, then it is easy to do.