350htrr

Well I would multiply that by 2X, ? black bear attacking you, 10X ? grisly attacking you... JMO

plumberroy

Grisly or polar bear are clearly the most dangerous animals in North America combine that with how hard they can be to stop. When they are serious about doing you harm you have a problem
A family dog chasing you because of territorial behavior or just because you are moving is not in the category of a black bear . On the other hand a large feral dog that with a pack of 5-6 dogs can down cattle is a whole different level and can be just as dangerous as most black bears. this type of dog is faster, more agile than a bear and lacks the fear/respect of humans most wild animals have .

350htrr

Now, I agree with what you are saying, the way you said it makes way more sense. I "think" I wouldn't be afraid for my life for up to 3 to 4 feral dogs, but 1 black bear charging me sure made me think the outcome would not be pleasant at best (months in a hospital, huge serious wounds) to death, where as I'm sure I could kill a couple of dogs bear handed and with my bear spray and knife I always carry the number would be higher, how high I don't really know...

Vintage_Cyclist

Here in NYC, there have been a few attacks involving packs of 3 to 4 feral dogs in the Rockaways in recent years. Frequently pitbulls, german shepards and rottweilers comprise these packs. They don't stand around barking and snarling, their attacks are coordinated, where they go for the legs and drag down their prey, then start going for the bites of opportunity on the legs, hands, face, etc. If they can, they basically start eating the victim alive. Several people have been severely and/or permanently injured, including one who lost his eyes and ears.

GravelMN

We're not talking cockapoos that got loose in suburbia. Some of these dogs have been feral for generations and many are quite large. They have no fear of people and can be extremely territorial. "Bear" handed you would be lucky to survive an attack by a pack of 3 or 4 of them and would likely be seriously wounded with multiple deep bites. These animals have been known to take down full grown deer.

cyber.snow

So that is where those little bells and pepper smell come from and here I thought the bears were eating jerky, not jerks.

I worked for the US Dept of Fish and Game for a couple of summers before being drafted in the 60s. Spent a lot of time in the Sierras from N. CAL up into Canada. Never got into a situation with a bear that wasn't a result of my own stupidity. Did learn to assume that the creatures will probably avoid you during the day but might investigate during the dark. As I was a rider (horse), I learned to sleep very lightly but as I said, never had a problem. If I were to find myself camping in the wilderness again, I would certainly invest in a can (or two) of bear spray.

McBTC

True, and you definitely want to avoid using a sleeping bag that smells like salmon.

Joe Minton

1959 near Alamogordo NM:
Nine (as best I can remember) feral dogs attacked me a couple of miles outside of Alamogordo NM, in the desert. "Mom" was the boss and Mom seemed to decide that I was to be their next meal. They spread out to flank me and 'she' came at me directly, vigorously and with obvious intent. I shot her, shot her 'lieutenant', then turned and shot the 'closer'. The others, deprived of their leader(s) and technique, turned and ran away. I wounded and probably killed at least two and probably three more.

I called the sheriff and the Game Warden, whom I knew. It turned out that this pack was in the habit of killing folk's dogs & cats. No one had been directly assaulted before.
It was sad but better than losing some child to hungry and sadly desperate dogs. I can still 'see' what happened; what I saw, what I did, and, well ---why I had to do it. Just another nightmare.

Joe

Pemetic2006

I believe in the right to arm bears.

northerntier

In Jasper, Alberta Canada, the clerks at the main outdoor store, when questioned, said they didn't know anyone who'd ever used it. For the record, we saw nine bears over the next week, but they never got close. My 30x zoom camera was useful.

Vintage_Cyclist

Jasper, that rang a bell with me. Mama grizzly bear charges two mountain bikers in Canadian park

northerntier

Whoa. Luckily, we stayed on the road...

plumberroy

Luckily you were packing and know how to use it.
The times I spoke of were in the early 80's I was assisting the local dog warden If we got snow and some one found tracks or a kill we took it to the feral dogs to prevent them from harming some one . I really don't know how effective pepper spray would work against multiple dogs I personally would prefer my 870 but it is frowned on carrying it some places. And I don't have a bike scabbard for it
To get back on topic bear spray if needed isn't something to try D.I.Y. on
Roy

TGT1

You know what they call cyclists in Alaska?














































Meals on wheels.

erig007

You can get the same result throwing rocks at the dogs there is no need to go lethal

Joe Minton

plumberroy:
I had just started hunting dove at the time with my autoloading 22 rimfire rifle. It was full (17 cartridges) and I was an excellent shot. These dogs were big and coal black and clearly one family. I still cannot figure their breed; they mighta been a mix of Rottweiler and, well, Weimeramer or something like that.

I used to shoot dove in the head when they landed in the tops of the Mesquite trees. I was near the property of a fellow who raised pigs for local markets. He fed them with the maize he grew. His problem was that he was growing about as many pounds of dove as he was hog. He contacted me through the Game Warden about taking care of his dove problem; they had an understanding – I could take the dove out of season and the ammo was free.

We ate a lot of dove during the two years we lived there. My Momma’s rule was that she would cook anything I brought home but I’d have to clean it. It didn’t take long for me to realize that a skinned dove wrapped with bacon and baked was a whole bunch easier and tastier than plucking and frying them.

erig007:
A pack of very hungry feral dogs are like a single animal, like a pride of lions, hyenas or the like. A starving predator is primally violent and a rock tossed at him by a future meal isn’t going to have much effect. These guys wanted to eat me because they were hungry enough to take their chances. If you had been there, I doubt you would have suggested that we throw rocks.

The event was nightmarish and still wakes me from time to time. It was unfortunate and sad. What I did that day was and remains painful to me. But --- I wasn't eaten and I'm still here.

Joe

cyber.snow

Joe, rest assured that you handled it correctly.

Also, I would be very careful about the "wild" animals you find in parks. They are typically dehumanized and can cause a lot of trouble. I camped once on the Pacific Coast in a little park where the deer and racoons were so tame that they would come into your camp and start eating off of your picnic table. In the morning, just before heading down to the water to do a little abalone diving, I noticed that every campsite that left out an ice chest had that ice chest turned over and dumped out on the ground. In spite of the warning signs that say don't feed the animals, you still find folks that feed the cute bears and wonder why they break windows and scratch cars and tear up campsites looking for food. I would prefer to camp away from parks where there are a lot of animals roaming around...is a natural danger sign that something isn't right with the ecology of that place.

plumberroy

That statement shows you have no idea the kind of animals we are talking about . And people like you are the reason I took it to the feral dogs. By the time you picked up the second rock one of the 4-5 others around you would be chewing on you. As much as the can't we all just get along/ its just a poor little critter types annoy me . I still don't want to see them hurt.
By the way I never blame an animal for being what it is . I would much rather shoot the low life scum that gets the "cute little puppy or kitty " then decides they don't want the responsibility so they abandon the animal in the country instead of finding it a home or having it humanely put down . But shooting the cause of the problem isn't legal
Roy

erig007

Because you pick rocks one by one?
Dogs being feral or not, like humans are afraid of things they don't know. They can learn and adapt quickly though. Having something thrown at them can be something they aren't use to. If they aren't charging already and are still assessing you as a threat or not, throwing rocks can be a valid option. The clue of that being that after Joe Minton shot a few of them others decided to leave him alone.



In this documentary you can see how some feral dogs behave when encountering humans.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NyYVOewMM-A

shazzberri

For the past 10+years I've had bear encounters or sightings in the NW every year, while hiking. I've never encountered a bear while biking, but did encounter a cougar while mountain biking in Colorado.

I carry bear spray while hiking and have used it once, against a bear in Colonel Bob Wilderness (Washington) The spray did not do much to the bear, even though it was right in the face. I am convinced it ran away mostly out of fear, which is typical. IMHO spray is not very effective against large black bears, and is probably not at all effective against large grizzlies. But I still carry bear spray when hiking.

Capsaicin (bear) spray is very effective against dogs, and I've used spray against dogs many times while biking. I bike a lot in rural areas and people seem to let the dogs run free. For this reason alone, I recommend taking a can of spray while biking.

If you have to spray a bear while biking, I wish you the best of luck.

shazzberri

One more thing about cans of bear spray... Make sure you do not get El Cheapo brand with the lousy trigger and trigger housing. All brands have similar contents, but make sure you get a brand that has a *reliable*, easy-to-handle trigger. I had an old can whose trigger was fumble city. I finally took it the woods and unloaded the whole thing into a field.

I think we are not supposed to bad mouth brands here, so I won't, but just pay attention to the trigger and the trigger housing when buying.

plumberroy

Erig007: I raised and trained hunting dog when younger. We have had as many as 60 dogs Coon hounds, foxhounds, Rabbit beagles squirrel dogs and bird dogs. At one time right after high school I was taking care of our dogs and two other trainers dog that had health issues until homes could be found for these peoples dogs. For a couple of months I cared for 167 hunting dogs daily . I have also hunted problem feral dogs packs. I know a little about how dogs work . I have watched most of the video you posted before . It deals urban feral dogs that live of trash and small game . I have hunted feral dogs that 8 dogs killed a steer that was close to 1000 lbs . In one situation I approached an old collapsed shed I knew the feral dogs were under it . So I had my Remington pump at my shoulder an 80 pound hound/shepherd cross came out of the mess so fast that by the time I got sights on him and fired he was airborne and less than 5 ft from me I got enough out of the way that it didn't knock me down but the dog warden I was assisting though I had been attack because of the blood. How are you going to turn a dog like that with a rock??? I shot a big boxer mix with a slingshot and a lead ball he retreated 30 ft and turn back around and came back can you throw rocks harder than a modern slingshot??? I have been on the ground facing these type of animals 98 out of 100 packs or feral dogs chucking a rock will work the other 2 groups will eat your a$$. I have had hunting dogs all my life. I have pulled dogs off people being attacked. Sometimes there are only one option to deal with wild dogs God help you if you are not prepared . Granted I put myself in the positions of having to deal with these animals. I did it because my experience gave me a better chance of coming out unharmed . If I had to choose between dealing with a black bear or a pack of feral dogs I will take the black bear. A pack of big wild dogs away from urban areas is bad news period I would not argue with you if I did not care
Roy

BigAura

I'd wear a gopro so you can post your experience for all to see.

plumberroy

Vast majority of that experience was long before a gopro was even though of . I am fat and old now and only deal with problem animal when if I have to. It would have been interesting to see the dog coming out of the shed . It would be to gory to post on this forum.

elcruxio

Why is there even a debate? Pepper spray is such darn good stuff one should always have that handy. I've seen it used on people several times, even gotten it on me after wrestling with said people and it burns through skin (the good stuff at least). So even if one doesn't carry it against animals one should carry it against people. Great stuff for escape purposes.

If I could I'd carry pepper spray while touring. But I live and tour in Europe so I legally can't. I'm probably going to anyway and I'll supplement that with a telescopic baton (also seen that used against people, good stuff)