cyber.snow

I am currently riding my road bike using a Selle SMP TRK saddle. It is pretty comfortable and I purchased it because of numbness in the perennial area. I am now going to a touring bike that, according to the geometries, is a little shorter in the top bar and am wondering if my position on the bike should be more upright for touring and if I should be trying to use the same saddle. I see a lot of pictures of bikes with brooks saddles (I believe most are B17 and Flyer saddles) and while I am aware of the break in requirements, I wonder if I need to keep a saddle with a pronounced slot to prevent that numbness or if I am sitting more upright, will I even need it?

Is there a significant difference in the way you sit/fit/ride a touring bike vs sit/fit/ride a road bike?

staehpj1

I personally find that touring posture, bike setup, and saddle choice are all best for me when they mimic my road bike as closely as possible. That includes the bars being quite low (3-4" below the saddle). As a result I don't need a different saddle. I find that setup very comfortable. The key is to maintain good core strength and ride with bent elbows and a relaxed upper body. So no hunched shoulders and fingers draped loosely over the bars.

If you adopt a more upright riding posture for touring it might require a different saddle choice.

indyfabz

My touring position is more upright than the position on my road bike. My touring bike has a Terry men's Liberator Gel. I love he saddle on my new road bike. (Can't remember the precise model.) Both have cutouts. I am thinking of trying the road bike saddle on the touring bike.

The only way to know what ultimately work for you in trial and error.

fietsbob

if your Riding posture on your touring bike is to be similar to your Road bike, Dropbars etc , you really dont need a different type.

My drop bar touring bikes I used a Brooks Professional saddle . even if under a Plastic bag on wet rainy days ..

Tourist in MSN

For more upright riding style, most prefer a wider flatter saddle. For drops on drop bars, narrower.

On my touring bikes I use the drops about 30 percent of the time, so I need a narrower saddle. I use a Brooks Conquest which has a size and shape almost identical to the Brooks Pro, but the Conquest is sprung whereas the Pro is not. I think the Brooks website for dimensions is in error on the Conquest, I have four Conquests and all are narrower than Brooks says they are. The Conquest was discontinued and all of mine are old, but it was recently re-introduced.

But on my trainer bike where I sit more upright to get some exercise while watching TV in winter or otherwise bad weather, I can use a B17 which is wider and flatter just fine. I have also used a Flyer on a bike in a more upright position when doing mountain bike trails on a touring bike - I sat more upright and virtually never used the drops while mountain biking.

So, the question becomes are you going to be using the drops much on a touring bike?

I have never bought from Walbike, but many have because of their unusually good return policy.

Saddles - Brooks, Berthoud | wallbike.com | wallbike.com

If you buy a Brooks, do some searches on this forum for breaking in leather saddles. You will find dozens, if not hundreds of opinions. Some find that it takes hundreds of miles, others feel that they are perfect out of the box. My opinion is that you should not apply proofide until the saddle is partially broken in, once that is applied it slows the process of the leather taking a new shape to conform better to your anatomy.

DropBarFan

Saddle makers etc talk about needing a wider saddle for more-upright touring vs speedy road riding. I wonder if some marketing angle influences such recommendation ie buyers will assume a wider saddle would be more comfortable? Actually I think the sit bones spread farther apart when leaned over road-style. But a wider (esp leather) saddle probably gives more space to flex, whether or not the add'l width is needed for sit-bones. Padding & other shape aspects probably more important than width.

Tourists are usually older & not pedaling at max force. Racers are pushing down hard on the pedals which helps lighten the saddle load but most tourists need a saddle with more give. Not sure if Brooks saddles would help with perineal pressue (AFAIK more to the mid-front). Brooks' noses are pretty hard; once with racing bike rode a used Team Pro that was swayed & nose stuck up very uncomfortably. (BTW shop sold it to me as new; they got shut down for not paying taxes LOL.) I see lots of Brooks tourer pics with saddle angled up and/or front-back sway & I wonder how comfy that could be while riding low on drops to fight a headwind.

IN RE slots I thinks it's 99% individual. Lots of fans but seems like the edges could be kinda sharp. SQlabs saddles have the concept of perching sit-bones up high on the padding (with channel in-between sides) while nose is lower to avoid perineal pressure. Some riders say it feels funny at first but works great.

Brooks break in but AFAIK rather rare for a Brooks to go from pronounced initial discomfort to super-plush just from break-in.

elcruxio

The way I see it is that a saddle definitely needs to be wide enough to accomodate the sitbones in the riding configuration one is using with said saddle.

When a person leans forward the sitbones do get narrower so a road bike saddle can be a bit narrower than say, a relaxed commuter. With a more aggressive position a too wide a saddle can also cause thigh rub and hamstring discomfort since the road riding position also often straightens the leg more and pushes the thigh more vertical creating these problems.

I'm going to go with the generic touring positon which is relatively upright.
With a tourer however one sits with the hips rocked more backwards thus requiring more sitbone space. Hence I think a touring saddle should be wide enought to accomodate the sitbones in their widest possible configuration. With a road bike one usually stays in the same position or maybe sits up a bit, with a tourer one can actually sit up for long periods of time and even ride without hands for extended periods. Even then, the seat should be comfortable, and it is not possible, if the seat is not wide enough to support the sit bones.

With a tourer one also has the seat a bit more back, pedals more forward so the same issues occuring with thigh rub and hamstring stuff are not as apparent or serious as with an aggressive road position so the seat can be a bit wider.

So I really don't think saddle width is marketing, rather, some manufacturers like Brooks while making nice saddles are also full on bull****in on people on their saddle needs saying that the saddle need is directly tied to their riding position. It's really only 50% true. In reality Brooks saddles are VERY narrow, even though they seem wide and all. It's the nature of the suspended leather saddle. The maximum sitbone width for a flyer or a swift is maybe 9cm while with the B17 it's 12cm.

I have been on a quest to find the perfect saddles for my 3 bikes for a while now and so far I have found 1 for the 29er. An Ergon SMC-3-L at 155mm wide. It's hard as life, but really works on the 29er. I would NOT however want it on my road bike or tourer.

For the tourer I have on order and waiting it to arrive a SpaCycles ESK which is a suspended leather saddle at 215mm wide and 285mm long. The important question is, will it be too wide? If not, i expect it to be the ultimate perfect saddle since well fitting leather saddles usually are. The way they work completely opposite to normal plastic saddles (convex vs concave sitbone contact) makes the inherently comfy, not to mention good for the bits. If a leather saddle starts numbing places it's a good idea to cut a hole in the middle.

Then I have a promising model waiting for a test ride. The Terry Figura GT Gel which is the descendant of the Terry Fly. I tries my SO's Terry butterfly and while was actually quite nice, it also felt way too small because it was just too damn short. However the Figura GT is a bit wider at 165mm and a bit longer at 285mm as opposed to the 265 or the butterfly. I'm expecting good things of this saddle and the rave reviews it has received tell me it might, MIGHT be a good touring saddle even though it's not a suspended leather saddle.

So there's a lot to think about when getting a good saddle. One needs to establish
1) Sit bone width in the desired riding configuration. Usually it's easy to just take multiple measurements from widest to narrowest and go from there.
2) said riding configuration. I don't think it's a good idea to get THE saddle before one knows the riding configuration and width needs
3) Saddle shape and style. I recommend leather but for some reason it doesn't work for everyone. There are even people who prefer saddles with aggressive downward slope on the sides while to me it means instant numbness down there. Like sitting on an axe blade
4) Padding. The fact of the matter is that some people do better with less padding and some people do well with more padding. It really depends. With a leather saddle as it flexes padding isn't necessary but against a hard plastic shell it's required. The Terry system is something I really like since the padding seems thick and soft to begin with but it's actually quite hard. The padding (in the higher end models) is made in a way that it gives a lot less padding to a lighter person and a lot more to heavier person as opposed to being hard to everyone or soft to everyone. It's a kind of a weight zone activating padding thingy I don't know how it works. Something to do with air and stuff.

tarwheel 

I have 5 bikes, including a racing, touring, sport touring and cyclocross. All of them have similar geometries, with close to the same saddle height, handlebar height and reach. I use the same saddle on all of my bikes. Like others said, if a saddle is comfortable for your riding in general, it should be fine for touring. However, if you decide that you need a wider and flatter saddle for touring, some good choices are the Brooks B17 and Fizik Vitesse.

The handlebars are about the same height as the saddle on all of my bikes. I used to use B17 saddles until I obtained a Vitesse in a swap. It has a shape and width similar to a B17 but weighs less than half as much. For me, it is actually more comfortable than a B17, which previously was the best saddle I had tried. I have since put Vitesse saddles on all of my bikes, although I have hung onto one of my B17s for sentimental reasons.

SlowAndSlower

Just curious as you have mention your "Brooks Professional" often. Is it similar to a B-17 but heavier leather? IIRC they were only made for a short period of time circa 1980.

fietsbob

Back plate is curved in both directions; B 17 is Flatter ..

It is one of their Road Bike saddles Tullio Campagnolo designed his classic 2 bolt Seat posts Around ..
Part of the reason traditional bike Racers wore black shorts, was the Brown-Black leather Dyes..

that Was the only Color Brooks saddles used to come in.
they're still made .. since Selle Royal , of Italy bought the company the leather Dye choices expanded .


need pictures?
BROOKS ENGLAND LTD. | ROAD+&+MTB | TEAM+PRO+CHROME
Vs, BROOKS ENGLAND LTD. | ROAD+&+MTB | B17+NARROW

SI Turbo & SM Rolls is Not dissimilar in shape to the Brooks Pro.

Tourist in MSN

I retired the Brooks Pro I have with a 1962 date code. They have been around a long time.

SlowAndSlower

I believe you have a Team Pro and has very distinct shape from the B-17. The Professional Select has the three holes in the top like the B-17 and the very large copper rivets like the Team Pro. Much heavier leather than the B-17.

Mine is labeled "Professional Select" in the oval and stamped B 79. A Letter from Brooks stated it had very limited production.

B 79 Professional Select

grolby

When I first got a touring bike it was an old Miyata and I just used the stock saddle and that seemed fine. Regarding fit, on that Miyata, I didn't give it much thought. The handlebars were lower than the saddle and because I didn't know anything about that and I felt comfortable enough, I didn't worry about it. Later, that bike died and I had to replace it. By now I had done some reading and there were a lot of Grant Petersens and other people of that sort saying that it was more comfortable to have your drop bars a bit higher than the saddle, so that's how I set up that Long Haul Trucker I bought. For some reason I just didn't feel as natural and comfortable on that bike as I did on the Miyata. I also struggled with saddles, tried a Brooks and didn't think it was all that great. So I didn't really know what to do.

Time went by and I got a road bike, and I liked it a lot and wasn't really any less comfortable on it than on my LHT. I wondered why, and then eventually had an idea. I flipped the stem on the LHT, which dropped the bars a bit below the saddle and pushed them a little further away. I was stunned to find that this was much more comfortable, and on top of that the bike handled better. You can't believe everything you read, I guess.

The moral of that story is, for me it is more comfortable to have my drop bar bikes, even if they are made for different purposes, reasonably close in fit. My road bike has more drop than my cyclocross bike, but they have the handlebars below the saddle height and reasonably far away. If I were to add a touring bike, I would probably set it up pretty similarly to my cross bike. The point is, any roadish bike should be comfortable to ride for several hours, which means that there probably shouldn't be a huge difference in how they fit. Probably a road bike will have you leaned forward a bit more than you would choose to be on a touring bike, but they won't necessarily be hugely different. So similar saddles should work as well.

As for my saddle issue, it's not that flipping the handlebars magically resolved every saddle problem I've ever had. It just turns out that I probably got lucky with the stock saddle on that first touring bike, because I'm fairly sensitive when it comes to saddles and there are a lot that don't work for me. But you don't necessarily need a "touring saddle" versus a racing saddle. I'm not sure that it makes a lot of sense to categorize saddles that way.

fietsbob

the various Brooks professional models may be Post Italian buyout .

DropBarFan

I recently measured sit bones with cardboard method but kept back fairly upright. Should have tried it with varying back angles but a couple days later just squatted & it sure seems like sit bones spread farther apart when leaned forward; ie apparently stretched back muscles pull the hips apart a bit? I could be wrong, I just used fingertip on sit bones to feel spread.

I've found that to be true (hips rocked backwards). I felt that was perhaps due to under-training & not doing enough stretches/yoga etc. In harder efforts I find it hard to maintain hip-forward style like ultra-fit racers often do. But the hip-backward style seems to cause more back fatigue. Sort of how when lifting heavy weights off the ground one should keep back straight even though natural tendency is to curl lower back.

Hmm that's interesting, I'm roughly 110 mm which is AFAIK med-narrow. Indentations on my B17 seem OK but yeah, if sit bones were wider the saddle might not fit well there. Well despite the dizzying array of bike components, bigger or smaller folks often get little product choice. Most wide saddles are dumb super-padded cruiser saddles.

SQlabs active Fitness saddle comes in 4 "useable" widths: 14-15-16-17 cm. They're a German company, considering that Germans can be quite tall perhaps they'd be a good source for larger riders? Still waiting for my new SQlabs Fitness to arrive & I'll post results since there are very few English-language reviews I've seen.

SQlab - 610 active Fitness Saddle, Tests winner, ergonomic

elcruxio

A quick review about the Terry Figura GT

This saddle is the closest I've gotten to the feel of a leather saddle with a plastic one. No unwanted pressure anywhere, very supportive and slick (no chafing) and wide enough to carry my sitbones nicely. It's relatively flat as well and has a nice functional cutout. Does definitely work very well on my hybrid, not yet sure whether it's too wide for road position.

Tourist in MSN

I have a Flyer and a B17. Shape is almost identical, the Flyer is not 30mm narrower than the B17.

elcruxio

True. I remembered the names wrong. Meant the swift and swallow

bradtx

cyber.snow, Experiment with your current saddle on the touring bike. In fact, try to replicate the roadie's fit as much as possible to determine what, if anything, you want to change. This is what I did for my first touring bike and really sped up the fitment process. I did eventually raise the handlebars a bit and experimented with a couple of saddles I had in the parts bin that were 'not quite right' on the roadies because they were just a little too wide. Both of those saddles were very acceptable on the touring bike after raising the 'bars. Both of the parts bin saddles were similar to the shape of my favorite roadie saddle, which helped.

Brad

DropBarFan

The Brooks bird names are a bit confusing, on my saddle info sheet I wrote down some notes to help keep track.

martianone

saddle type and comfort are just one part of bike fit. For me, saddle and handle bar level is most comfortable; also ride a leather saddle, but considering. Brooks Cambrium for my next bike

cyber.snow

Excellent point. I was using the 17 degree stem that came with the Felt and decided to go with a little higher one. My LBS only had a 35 degree one and I put it on. It raised the HB to about 4 inches above the saddle. While it is a lot more upright position and maybe more comfortable on a long ride (haven't had a chance to do a longer ride yet), the bike does handle differently and I am not sure I like it....For me, the optimum point seems to be about 2 inches above the saddle (maybe when I am in better shape, which will start happening soon) I will drop it down again. As for the saddle, I like the look of a leather saddle but am a little worried about numbness and aching in the perennial area...anyone experiencing that with the leather saddle?

martianone

Some cyclists probably feel that God cycles on a leather saddle, others feel that is a devil torture device. Have a leather saddle on each of my upright bikes, for me they provide the best comfort. Different saddles are needed for different bikes, different riding positions and different posteriors. The Brooks B17 and Cambrium usually are better with handlebars at or slightly above saddle. Waiting for a fat tire bike in my size to arrive at LBS, handle bars are slightly above saddle- have a Brooks Cambrium on order for it.

For years, my partner made fun of my "hard leather saddles". Then about ten years ago we were riding some where, she had one of those large "comfort" saddles - but expressed some concern about it's comfort. We had stopped for a water break, more saddle grumble. I said you are trying this - took a very comfy B17 off my bike put it on her bike (I took the comfort) saddle. We rode home, she still has that saddle on a bike, I ordered a myself a new leather saddle. When we set up her touring bike, she wouldn't even do the final fitting or ride it until a B17 was in place. When she got a new wonder fiber road bike, the stock saddle was immediately replaced with a series of three different leather saddles until finding the just right saddle (Brooks champion flyer). The downside of a leather saddle, it probably takes a more careful bike fitting and tweaking to find the optimum comfort spot.

DropBarFan

One can buy a stem w/adjustable angle. Also if the steerer tube includes some spacers, one can rearrange them to move stem up or down a bit. & some stems can be flipped over to give a different angle.

cyber.snow

I was using an adjustable stem and its setting was about 23 degrees (according to my woodworking protractor). I wanted to buy a lighter fixed one but they only had a 17 degree or a 35 degree. Will be taking this one back and trying a few other LBS.