eddiearniwhatev

hi

I saw fit to end a lengthy European cycle tour with a cross Sweden trip in November. I am told it will probably be cold and rainy, maybe with a hint of snow Has anyone done this particular jaunt during this time of year? Are conditions potentially brutal enough for me to need a plan B? I have a plane ticket out of Stockholm so I have no choice in the matter, really. And I do like a challenge... thanks! Oh and I'm riding a mountain bike.

schnee

I've lived in Stockholm for a year, and I toured Stockholm to Norway in September two years ago now.

Plan for it to rain almost every day, while being around 0C the whole time. In the middle of the country, it's several degrees colder, so expect below freezing overnight and some snow.

There is a system of dirt roads and bike roads that you can get across the whole country on. Some even have bike only signage. You'll occasionally be sharing roads with tractors. They're usually zig-zaggy, since they are the old pre-highway road system, but you'll have a great gravel grinding experience.

Do not expect to ride the highways at ALL. They have absolutely no shoulder and when it's raining it'll be dangerous as hell. So expect some long detours through the woods and more distance than you expect.

You won't have much light then. So bring good, bright lighting.

Expect more stores than usual to be closed in the middle of the country, and Sweden in general has fewer places to shop and far shorter business hours than the 'states.

Learn a bit of Swedish, older people in the middle of nowhere don't know English.

djb

"Plan for it to rain almost every day, while being around 0C the whole time. In the middle of the country, it's several degrees colder, so expect below freezing overnight and some snow"

Sounds like a rip roaring recipe for fun!

Op, if you haven't done any outdoor activities even close to these sort of conditions, ie being wet most of the day in temps 0-10 Celsius, it seems to me that you are just setting yourself up for an extremely unpleasant experience.
I ride until December when the snow and ice start, when dry it's one thing but wet and near these temps is pretty nasty, and I get to my warm house in less than an hour.
If you have experience in these sort of conditions and are OK with it, great, but if not I guess the only thing to recommend is riding and camping in similar temps beforehand, si you can figure out what clothing combos will work.

There are big giant mitt type things that go over brake levers, that you put your hands in, would help, but steady rain is always going to be just plain blah, blah and blah....

DropBarFan

I'd be worried about freezing rain/ice conditions. Perhaps your tour would have some flexibility so as to take a day off if such conditions arise? MTB would seem to be able to handle a bit of light snow, fenders would be a nice help for the rain. Temps would not be esp comfortable but with nice winter/rain gear fairly tolerable. I'd consider staying at B & B's/hostels vs camping.

Once on car tour in Germany encountered an icy side road, weird part was that glazed road was AFAIK not from precipitation; was moisture from air freezing on the road surface. Schnee recommends the dirt/gravel roads: such roads (apart from traffic safety) might be a safer riding surface than slick asphalt.

chasm54

Good rain gear. Mitts. Studded winter tyres. LIGHTS.

fietsbob

plan B is take the Train.

DropBarFan

Up north a generator light would be a big plus.

djb

Eddie , have you rdidden in these sort of temps combined with rain before?
Re amount of daylight, here in Canada where I am, art the shortest days of the year in December, it's dark at 4pm. You'll be further up north so even in November it probably is similar--look it up on the world wide web for Sweden and areas you'll be in.
Also is surprisingly fast how fast you can go down on ice. I'm pretty comfortable with sliding on two wheels but have always been surprised how fast losing the front happens on ice, and whacking your elbow and hip hurts.

Again, stuff to be aware of and take into consideration

eddiearniwhatev

Thanks everyone for the advice.

I am from the Pacific Northwest of the USA so I'm accustomed to rain and cycling in temperatures as low as 0C and a little lower. For recreation in the winter I enjoy back country snow camping, cross country skiing, snow shoeing, etc. I've never lived anywhere biking in the snow and ice was a day to day practice, but I'm not a complete stranger to it and I've noted that mtbs handle the snow / ice pretty well.

My plan is to follow the Sverigeleden cycle routes, a little zig zaggy but according to Open Cycle Map reliably free of major traffic. I usually plan for 50km a day in hilly conditions so I'm not rushed and am able to take days off when needed. I'm still designing the route and I'm going to try for more gravel roads than non. I cycled across Croatia on gravel/ dirt and the cycle performed admirably.

Gear, I am well prepared for rain, just spent two months in near constant rain in Scotland and Ireland, cold it's my intention to see how cold it is when i get to Sweden and wool up there. Ice, is that really an issue in November? My friends who cycle in the snow in Boston use zip ties on their tyres. I'm rolling on Continental semi knobbies which have handled gravel, sand and mud thus far and can most likely handle snow.

Plan B, the trains across Sweden don't take cycles from what I can tell. I tour with a cycle bag which if I break down the bike can handle the frame wheels racks etc. but I think it's too big / heavy for the train even if I break it down. I suppose if the weather is super inclement I can ship it...

This is however my idea of fun, I love adversity and discomfort, not kidding. I just wanted to get some advice so I know what I'm getting myself into. Reading the above comments, my only real concern is getting food / batteries, as it is pretty rural out there and I ought to plan accordingly.

And also, daylight. I do NOT bike in the dark, ever. So that's something to think about...

Thanks so much!!!

djb

Well that's a whole different kettle of fish. On interwebs forums like this there are people who come on and ask about trip ideas and it comes out that they have never ridden more than 20km, have never camped before and want to ride their fixie over the Alps in winter with 70 lbs of load--complete exaggeration on my part here but you know what I mean.

With some route planning, this will more doable in terms of distances between services but I figure the luck of the draw for weather patterns and language barriers could be real issues to deal with.
As for ice, the times it has surprised me has been when it's all pavement except for patches of ice that look like water, so I've been going at dry pavement speed, of rather mentality ie not paying enough attention, so I think that's when you just have to be more attentive. I was on MTB tires BTW.
Your outdoor winter experience is a big plus here, so suffer away young man ;-) if this is what turns your crank, then just plan realistically for what you're getting into, like any responsible outdoor activity no matter the conditions.
Those hand cover giant mitten thingees are sold here for winter riding, might be a good addition or at least to look into.

schnee

Depending on the train, they don't mind or won't let you on at all unless it's bagged and 'luggage'.

I took a train from Kristiansand (Norway) to Malmö and was fine, but from Malmö to Stockholm I had to take off the wheels, cover everything in garbage bags and tape, and make it look very 'non-bike' like. Basically, they don't have space for bike commuters, but they do for people with luggage, so make it look luggage-like - not something that will scratch up and cover everyone else's stuff with grease - and you'll be fine. Remember, people in Sweden pack ****-tons of winter gear and go skiing and hiking.

eddiearniwhatev

Oh sweet! When I break down the bike and get in in the bag it is rather baggy and lumpy. I hope I don't have to bring it on the train, I'm determined to cycle the whole way, but it is good to know there's some chance of using the train as plan B.

schnee

Have a safe ride!

Remember to have Fika, don't eat the Surströmming, and the Kardemummabullar are to die for.

djb

thats all Greek to me.
makes me think of that youtube video of the guy annoying his girlfriend in Ikea with endless puns. Very funny. stupid, but funny.

Spudd

There are also great buses in Sweden that do allow bikes. We biked Sweden in 2011 and had to take the bus a couple of times, the bikes were no issue. One bus let us bring them into the bus with us, another bus had a bike rack on back and the bus driver kindly loaded them and unloaded them for us. The buses also cover very rural areas where you would not expect to find them coming from North America. Great for those unexpected bike malfunctions.

imi

I met a guy in northern spain who had ridden there from St. Petersburg starting in december!
He rode in regular jeans... Just saying

edit: OP, pm me if there's anything I can assist with in Gothenburg. Can't offer you a place to stay as my tiny flat will be over populated in november...

MassiveD

Sounds miserable. Reminds me the book Around Ireland in low gear. Travel writer cycles around Ireland in winter,has horrid times, sells Book

The two things I would look at are whether you really want to spend that much time In a tent. Up north it can be 2/3 of your time or about 2x as long as the sleep you need, To make it any further at all you decent sized tent. Keep in min that these northern places are prone to suicide. Not that you will do that, but the reality is they can be mind altering experiences If you have great social skills, you might manage to get lodging every night, but that would depend on the Swedish national character.

second is that it doesn't sound like anyone has responsibility to plow the zig zag track. So you get two inches of snow, not a super big deal, though i would probably be checking for a round in the chamber, that can be crusty a nice a day or two later

imi

US ranked 50, Sweden 59
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...y_suicide_rate

indyfabz

The male ranking of 63rd is even lower than that of the U.S. (46th.)

MichaelW

I cycled W Norway in late Sept/Oct. It turned cold and rainy and my feet were wet despite waterproof socks. After a few days of cold wet, feet can really start to hurt. I got some (new) Norwegian winter socks at a Salvation Army shop and they saved me.

imi

A note about trains in sweden. You can take all you can carry onto the train at once... if there's room... at the conductors discretion... So don't bet on it. Friday and Sunday afternoons and evenings the trains are packed.
On the main buses "Swebus" you can't take a bike afaik

oh, and welcome!

p.s... imho waterproof socks are pretty useless for riding in the rain. I save them for changing into at camp

ragnar.jensen 

Lots of good info above. An average November in the southern half of Sweden:

• Temperatures a couple of degrees above 0C during the day.
• Freezing temps at night is common.
• Overcast skies. Last year Stockholm had five hours of sunlight during the whole of November.
• Some chance (risk?) of snowfall. It typically won't stay for more than a day or two, but sometimes the heavens dump a lot of it.
• If not snow, then rain, rain and rain.
• 6-7 hours of usable daylight.

Fika - Coffee break. A social institution in Sweden.
Surströmming - Fermented Baltic herring. The smelliest food in the world. It defies any kind of description, it must be experienced.
Kardemummabullar - Cardamom buns.

Sverigeleden is 99% paved, public roads. Being secondary or tertiary roads, traffic is often very light. They do get plowed in case of snow.


Stockholm, November 24th a couple of years ago... Welcome to Sweden

--
Ragnar

djb

In my books, cold and rain=major suckage.

There is planning for the worst and hoping for the best, but those stats are sobering.

DropBarFan

In Germany it was a bit surprising to see bike commuters riding in sub-freezing temps w/just jeans & a jacket/gloves/scarf.

imi

No, don't... it's basically illegal in the south of sweden as the smell is classified as a sanitary disturbance to neighbours... seriously!

Occasionally the fire brigade and police are called out on alarm for "toxic fumes"... true!

The levels of poisonous dioxins and PCB in this fermented fish make it illegal anywhere else in the EU

It redefines the meaning of "disgusting"!