simple alcohol burner vs multifuel burner?
#1
commu*ist spy
Thread Starter
simple alcohol burner vs multifuel burner?
I travel light (like rear panniers and a bivy bag light), but I'm considering carrying a burner next time. I was thinking about getting a simple burner that takes alcohol fuel, with a stowaway pot. But I was also wondering about the multifuel burners, which are designed for the job, and does it much better, but are typically expensive, and weighs more.
advantages of soda can burner:
light
simple (you can make one from a soda can)
disposable
advantages of multifuel burner:
heats up water faster
gasoline and fuel are easier to find
easier to modulate flame
can be used in higher elevations or adverse conditions, which I don't really care about, because I won't be on a bicycle in those places, but more likely a motorcycle..
right now, I really like the simple soda can burner, just for the simplicity. however, there are two things I'm a little worried about.
1. fuel availability: I'm guessing you can't always find stores that have pure alcohol. and even when you do, the alcohol may be different, and there's no way to control how how the fuel burns, especially if it's not pure alcohol
2. getting the job done: about how long does it take a soda can burner to heat up say 1L of water? It doesn't need to be boiling, just hot enough to make oat meals, mashed potatoes, and the like.
thanks
advantages of soda can burner:
light
simple (you can make one from a soda can)
disposable
advantages of multifuel burner:
heats up water faster
gasoline and fuel are easier to find
easier to modulate flame
can be used in higher elevations or adverse conditions, which I don't really care about, because I won't be on a bicycle in those places, but more likely a motorcycle..
right now, I really like the simple soda can burner, just for the simplicity. however, there are two things I'm a little worried about.
1. fuel availability: I'm guessing you can't always find stores that have pure alcohol. and even when you do, the alcohol may be different, and there's no way to control how how the fuel burns, especially if it's not pure alcohol
2. getting the job done: about how long does it take a soda can burner to heat up say 1L of water? It doesn't need to be boiling, just hot enough to make oat meals, mashed potatoes, and the like.
thanks
#2
Full Member
This isn't the issue you may think it is. Almost all hardware stores and paint stores will have methyl hydrate aka wood alcohol, an excellent clean burning fuel. Up here a litre of the stuff is less than 5 bucks.
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#4
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https://www.google.com/search?q=alco...bikeforums.net
Canister stoves are best compromise between the (initially) low weight, low cost alcohol stove and the expeditionary multi-fuel stoves such as venerable MSR Whisperlite International. Not cooking at all is the simplest, lightest solution, which is completely practical in many parts of the world.
Alcohol stoves can be made from trash and run off ethanol or methanol, which is widely available. They boil 2 cups of h20 in 5-12 minutes and use 12-25g fuel per boil. Most alcohol stoves lack regulation to reduce heat/burn rate to a simmer. Trangia and some clones use a simple hinged burner cover to reduce output. Alcohol has some danger associated with the hard-to-see clear burning flames, plus it gets spilled filling or recovering fuel from stove. Some areas (CA in the past) prohibit alcohol stoves as they are viewed as potential forest fire starters.
Canister stoves are super convenient, boil 2 cups h20 in 2-3" with 9-12g fuel. Fuel found at walmart or sporting goods store. Cheap clone canister stoves are sold on Amazon (kovea, etc). Don't use cheap canister stoves if you fear explosions, burns or are uninsured. All canister stoves have full output regulation via valve, 0-100%.
Multifuel stoves work like canister stoves but they're heavier, less tippy, may have a priming/warm-up period and will blacken cookware. They work well for groups. Most work well at very high altitude with liquid fuel where canister stoves might struggle. There are clones of these too, be especially cautious of the gasoline-burning models.
Alcohol stoves are good for short trips. They use relatively high amount of fuel due to the lower heat produced by their fuel, as well as poorer design-related efficacy. At some point it becomes cheaper/lighter to carry the canister stove - usually for trips beyond 5 days.
Canister stoves require a fuel canister, which empty weighs 30-50% of total filled weight. It is this "dead" weight which mostly makes the alcohol stove advantageous weight-wise for short trips. Otherwise canister stoves are pretty darn good. The Jetboil variety with integrated stand, windscreen, pot & lid are the fastest and most fuel efficient, and also the most expensive.
Nearly all backpacking stoves and cookware are tippy by design. Buy the canister holder/footrest/stand if you get a canister stove to minimize chance of spilling food/water onto the ground.
If you are flying, be aware that the multifuel stoves often are banned since they may have a trace odor of fuel present - gasoline/white gas/kerosene. Can't fly fuel either. Canister fuel can be shipped by ground only in the USA due to "hazardous material" law with an associated fee, so most people get it local - local sellers often take advantage of this situation and raise their price. It is possible to refill canisters for a fraction of retail cost with a simple butane or propane adapter, making their use much more economical for heavy users.
Canister stoves are best compromise between the (initially) low weight, low cost alcohol stove and the expeditionary multi-fuel stoves such as venerable MSR Whisperlite International. Not cooking at all is the simplest, lightest solution, which is completely practical in many parts of the world.
Alcohol stoves can be made from trash and run off ethanol or methanol, which is widely available. They boil 2 cups of h20 in 5-12 minutes and use 12-25g fuel per boil. Most alcohol stoves lack regulation to reduce heat/burn rate to a simmer. Trangia and some clones use a simple hinged burner cover to reduce output. Alcohol has some danger associated with the hard-to-see clear burning flames, plus it gets spilled filling or recovering fuel from stove. Some areas (CA in the past) prohibit alcohol stoves as they are viewed as potential forest fire starters.
Canister stoves are super convenient, boil 2 cups h20 in 2-3" with 9-12g fuel. Fuel found at walmart or sporting goods store. Cheap clone canister stoves are sold on Amazon (kovea, etc). Don't use cheap canister stoves if you fear explosions, burns or are uninsured. All canister stoves have full output regulation via valve, 0-100%.
Multifuel stoves work like canister stoves but they're heavier, less tippy, may have a priming/warm-up period and will blacken cookware. They work well for groups. Most work well at very high altitude with liquid fuel where canister stoves might struggle. There are clones of these too, be especially cautious of the gasoline-burning models.
Alcohol stoves are good for short trips. They use relatively high amount of fuel due to the lower heat produced by their fuel, as well as poorer design-related efficacy. At some point it becomes cheaper/lighter to carry the canister stove - usually for trips beyond 5 days.
Canister stoves require a fuel canister, which empty weighs 30-50% of total filled weight. It is this "dead" weight which mostly makes the alcohol stove advantageous weight-wise for short trips. Otherwise canister stoves are pretty darn good. The Jetboil variety with integrated stand, windscreen, pot & lid are the fastest and most fuel efficient, and also the most expensive.
Nearly all backpacking stoves and cookware are tippy by design. Buy the canister holder/footrest/stand if you get a canister stove to minimize chance of spilling food/water onto the ground.
If you are flying, be aware that the multifuel stoves often are banned since they may have a trace odor of fuel present - gasoline/white gas/kerosene. Can't fly fuel either. Canister fuel can be shipped by ground only in the USA due to "hazardous material" law with an associated fee, so most people get it local - local sellers often take advantage of this situation and raise their price. It is possible to refill canisters for a fraction of retail cost with a simple butane or propane adapter, making their use much more economical for heavy users.
Last edited by seeker333; 09-16-15 at 03:47 PM.
#5
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Plus one for Trangia burners. Mine are over fifty years old.
#6
Senior Member
For backpacking when I need to carry fuel for longer periods between restock I use a canister stove because it has more BTUs per weight. For bike touring I find that I can go lighter with alcohol since I can restock pretty frequently. The ability to simmer better is a bonus.
#7
Senior Member
Alcohol stoves are good for short trips. They use relatively high amount of fuel due to the lower heat produced by their fuel, as well as poorer design-related efficacy. At some point it becomes cheaper/lighter to carry the canister stove - usually for trips beyond 5 days.
#8
commu*ist spy
Thread Starter
good tips. I might get the trangia burner. I was looking at that, but wasn't feeling like spending $15 on something I can make for a nickel
but the canister stove idea has me intrigued. you can't modulate it at all right? unless there's a valve on the canister that controls the output, which I don't think there is. how does refilling usually work? it'd be nice to do that, instead of buying a new can every single time you run out.
but the canister stove idea has me intrigued. you can't modulate it at all right? unless there's a valve on the canister that controls the output, which I don't think there is. how does refilling usually work? it'd be nice to do that, instead of buying a new can every single time you run out.
Last edited by spectastic; 09-16-15 at 04:31 PM.
#9
Senior Member
good tips. I might get the trangia burner. I was looking at that, but wasn't feeling like spending $15 on something I can make for a nickel
but the canister stove idea has me intrigued. you can't modulate it at all right? unless there's a valve on the canister that controls the output, which I don't think there is. how does refilling usually work? it'd be nice to do that, instead of buying a new can every single time you run out.
but the canister stove idea has me intrigued. you can't modulate it at all right? unless there's a valve on the canister that controls the output, which I don't think there is. how does refilling usually work? it'd be nice to do that, instead of buying a new can every single time you run out.
#10
Senior Member
#11
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good tips. I might get the trangia burner. I was looking at that, but wasn't feeling like spending $15 on something I can make for a nickel
but the canister stove idea has me intrigued. you can't modulate it at all right? unless there's a valve on the canister that controls the output, which I don't think there is. how does refilling usually work? it'd be nice to do that, instead of buying a new can every single time you run out.
but the canister stove idea has me intrigued. you can't modulate it at all right? unless there's a valve on the canister that controls the output, which I don't think there is. how does refilling usually work? it'd be nice to do that, instead of buying a new can every single time you run out.
The control valve is fine enough that you can boil water in nothing flat or you can simmer rice. In other words, you can cook on one...elaborately if you like.
If you are going to altitude, canister stoves can work very well but they can be difficult to light. Soto makes the Micro Regulator that works very well in the cold and at altitude. I used one on my trip around Lake Erie this spring and had to start it at some absolutely frigid temperatures (22°F a couple of times) and had no problems.
Getting the canisters isn't that much of a problem if you are touring anywhere in the US (haven't done much loaded touring outside the US). I had no problem finding fuel canisters anywhere on my trip around Lake Erie nor on my trip through southern Appalachia nor even in Mena, OK. I've even found them in Helmarts in Kansas. I was so confident of finding fuel canisters that I just took my Soto on my trip this summer and left the heavy Omnifuel at home.
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Plan Epsilon Around Lake Michigan in the era of Covid
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Solo Without Pie. The search for pie in the Midwest.
Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!
#12
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I took a soda can stove and also a Firebox 3" woodburning stove touring. 2 months and less than 1 litre of alcohol (when I couldn't find wood, or it was too wet, to use the wood burning stove). Camp Stoves
Also it made a great pot stand for my alcohol stove when not burning wood.
I love the simplicity of the woodburning stove but probably not a good idea right now because of all the forest fires and no-burn regulations.
If doing something different doesn't appeal to you, then just go with canister - they are pretty efficient.
Also it made a great pot stand for my alcohol stove when not burning wood.
I love the simplicity of the woodburning stove but probably not a good idea right now because of all the forest fires and no-burn regulations.
If doing something different doesn't appeal to you, then just go with canister - they are pretty efficient.
#13
commu*ist spy
Thread Starter
mmm I'm thinking sterno folding stove (double up as wood burning if available), with soda can burner (with alcohol), and a stowaway pot. yeeessssssssss
canister sounds nice, but I'll stick to simplicity.
canister sounds nice, but I'll stick to simplicity.
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I've taken soda can stoves and burned Heet. But they take forever to boil water if at all. Next time I've decided to take my MSR internationale stove simply for its efficiency. I also plan on cooking more of my meals so I need a good stove for that and the soda can would not cut it.
#15
Senior Member
I've taken soda can stoves and burned Heet. But they take forever to boil water if at all. Next time I've decided to take my MSR internationale stove simply for its efficiency. I also plan on cooking more of my meals so I need a good stove for that and the soda can would not cut it.
#16
Senior Member
Don't use pots while empy...!
#18
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Depends on whether or not you're actually trying to cook food. If all you're doing is heating, can't beat a Jetboil. If you want to cook, we love our Optimus Nova for that. Aluminum pots only, though. We backpack on the Pacific Crest Trail. Thru-hikers almost all use a Jetboil. I've never seen alcohol. They're all about light and fast. Quick rice and bean flakes is about it for their cooking, but they carry everything with them for days. Bike camping, we go to a grocery store and buy easy to cook up food, but most of that is designed to be cooked in a kitchen which has a stove and pots and pans. We carry almost no food with us, so that's very different from a thru-hiker. Thru-hikers go for 10+ hours/day. When we tour, we don't ride that many hours, so we have time to shop and cook. We tour our tandem with only rear panniers.
We haven't had any trouble flying with a multi-fuel stove. We put it and our fuel bottles through the dishwasher on the start end, and do similar on the return end.
We haven't had any trouble flying with a multi-fuel stove. We put it and our fuel bottles through the dishwasher on the start end, and do similar on the return end.
Last edited by Carbonfiberboy; 09-17-15 at 09:46 AM.
#19
Banned
I bought 50p of petrol as I went , MSR dragonfly simmers , or roaring boil-snow melts.
Whisperlight international is only adjustable by fuel tank pressure..
bike tours are on the highway so fuel is easy to find, unleaded pump gas.
Whisperlight international is only adjustable by fuel tank pressure..
bike tours are on the highway so fuel is easy to find, unleaded pump gas.
#20
Bicycle Repair Man !!!
For the price the Trangia is an excellent buy and there is no issue finding fuel (yellow heat)... I have one kit with the supplied cooking pot and combined one with a vintage mess kit that came with a base / wind guard. Everything (save for a small fuel bottle) I need can be packed in here including a fair amount of food (packaged soups and cliff bars).
Takes about 4 minutes to boil 3 cups of water...
For bigger groups, car camping, or when I want a little more cooking capacity I have a SVEA 123 and SIGG kit... it is a beautiful thing.
You can't buy the SIGG kit anymore but they are available on the grey market.
As it is self priming it gets a little black at the cup and this boils a pot of water in about 4 - 5 minutes... you can also stack the pots to make a double boiler.
Takes about 4 minutes to boil 3 cups of water...
For bigger groups, car camping, or when I want a little more cooking capacity I have a SVEA 123 and SIGG kit... it is a beautiful thing.
You can't buy the SIGG kit anymore but they are available on the grey market.
As it is self priming it gets a little black at the cup and this boils a pot of water in about 4 - 5 minutes... you can also stack the pots to make a double boiler.
#21
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Depends on whether or not you're actually trying to cook food. If all you're doing is heating, can't beat a Jetboil. If you want to cook, we love our Optimus Nova for that. Aluminum pots only, though. We backpack on the Pacific Crest Trail. Thru-hikers almost all use a Jetboil. I've never seen alcohol. They're all about light and fast. Quick rice and bean flakes is about it for their cooking, but they carry everything with them for days. Bike camping, we go to a grocery store and buy easy to cook up food, but most of that is designed to be cooked in a kitchen which has a stove and pots and pans. We carry almost no food with us, so that's very different from a thru-hiker. Thru-hikers go for 10+ hours/day. When we tour, we don't ride that many hours, so we have time to shop and cook. We tour our tandem with only rear panniers.
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Lived months straight on thru hikes in the woods using tiny denatured alcohol stove, you will not find easier/lighter solution but note best for single person (and smaller amounts of boiling water). I could go approx 3 weeks 2x daily boils before needing refill. Whisper light is best stove for fastest boil/high elevation/multi people and are pretty light and can regulate--my go to stove these days. the WL can burn multi fuel, including gasoline if necessary.
#24
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#25
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Don't forget, alcohol stoves (or any form of stove without a shut-off valve) are not allowed on many parts of the PCT. With the fire danger in California this year, the National Park system is getting very particular. That might account for the lack of alcohol stoves you see among thru-hikers.
As mentioned in post 20 the Sigg kit is very nice. We use the kit I bought in 1968 at Sporthaus Schuster, Munchen, though we've given up the Svea in favor of the Optimus Nova. Can't get parts for the Svea anymore.