KC8QVO

I have been increasing my mileage from around 40-60 to 70-80 recently and am running in to a bit of a problem. After around the 70 mile mark my neck and upper back start hurting. I had this happen on a long ride last year. I attributed it to the weight of my helmet - wasn't a bike-specific helmet, and I had added a headlamp and a tail light to it for easier visibility on the road. I switched to a light weight bike helmet (bell) hoping to put the clamps on that issue. Until now I haven't had an issue. Sunday I did an 80 mile ride and the last 10 miles was rough. I took my helmet off and that relieved the pain for a while. I did the last 7-8 miles of the trail with no helmet, then for the road portion home I put it back on.

I talked to someone that rides some too and they said to try some different positions with the bike set up. Could this make that big of a difference? Is there any kind of process or fitment I could have done to make the fit of my bike better? It seems to me the more forward I am, lower my hand are, the more strain on my neck because I am holding my head back further to see in front the same level...

Thoughts?

Machka 

Can you post a picture of you on your bicycle?

jimincalif

i started having the same problem back in June. Started doing some of these exercises, sometimes will do a couple sets while stopped at a stoplight. Just did a century 10 days ago with no major pain.

Exercises to Treat Shoulder and Neck Pain From Cycling | ACTIVE

FYI I also flipped my stem and lowered my bars - just to change up my position on the bike. It's been OK for about 500 miles now. Getting a bike fit or updating your fit is a good idea. Things change over time.

bradtx

KC8QV0, The same pain can happen when cold weather turns warm and bikes are back in use. The bike's fitment was fine before the weather turned cold and this is generally pain while reconditioning the body for riding.

In your case the bike may or may not be fitted well and if the bike is well fitted to you, this maybe just your body adjusting to more time in the saddle than it's used to.

Brad

KC8QVO

Thanks for the replies. I do not have any pictures riding, unfortunately.

I never really had much of a "fitment" when I got my bike. I adjusted the saddle position quite a bit until I got the spot it is in now. Actually, when I first got the bike there was a different saddle on it. I ride with a Brooks Flyer Special these days, and have since the first 100 or so miles on the bike.

Machka 

You don't need to get a photo while riding. Just lean your bicycle against a wall, set your camera up on a timer, then dash over and hop on the bicycle before it clicks.

Or get someone to take your photo while you're balancing on your bicycle.

Or if those two options are out of the question ... a photo of you standing next to your bicycle might help.

Just to get some idea of your current setup and roughly your size in comparison.

KC8QVO

Here is a picture, right when I got home from my ride today. I had to hold the brakes so my hands are clamping the levers, otherwise that is pretty close to a normal riding position. I change positions on the bars all the time. I can't hold my hands in the same position for very long when riding.

Rowan

I am going to suggest initially that you check to see how ride with your shoulders. Do you ride with them relaxed, or do you ride with them hunched up either side of your neck? If the latter, you need to make a conscious effort to relax them so they are down.

I personally don't see any particular problem with your fit (although there are others who will argue that point). Judging from your leg angle, I am interested to know also how extended your leg is at the bottom of the pedal stroke. I am wondering if your saddle might be a tad high, your hips are rocking as you pedal, and you are compensating with your head by moving it sideways back and forth.

Machka 

One of the things that leaps to mind is ... do you raise your shoulders when you ride? It almost looks like you might be doing that in the photo, but it is a little hard to tell.

I do that, and it is something we do unconsciously ... scrunching our shoulders up around our ears.

You might try deliberately dropping your shoulders every so often to see if that makes a difference.

Doug64

Two things you might look at:

I'd suggest a helmet without a visor. The visor requires that you tilt the head up more using neck and upper back muscles more.

Extend your neck out and up, sort of like a turtle. This is a lot better posture for riding. At least that is what the PT who spoke at our bike club said during his presentation.

Rowan

Shermer's Neck also is an established issue in randonneuring, especially for very long events such as PBP1200. It comes from holding the neck in one position for long periods, and results in eventually the supporting muscles giving up and allowing the head drop so the chin rests on the chest. Riders have finished PBP and other long distance events with inner tubes tied to their helmets to hold their heads back.

The incidence of Shermer's neck apparently became more evident with the additional of helmet lights (and now possibly cameras). The solution obviously is to remove an excess weight from your helmet, and to do a program of exercises directed at strengthening your neck and shoulder muscles (with some emphasis on shoulder because that is where most of the support network originates).

KC8QVO

A couple things that probably throw of the "pose" are that I had to hold the brakes to keep my balance (have one of my bags/rack propping the bike against the side of the garage) and my phone's camera has a 10 second max time on the delay. It took me 5 trips back and forth to set the camera before I actually got a shot in the seat.


As to the saddle height - my legs are almost fully extended at the bottom. I had an issue at one point, before my calves were in shape, where the strain of pushing down on the balls of my feet was painful. I got charlie horses in my legs and would move my petal position towards my heel. At the time I had the saddle too high and was loosing the petals when I did this, so I dropped it a tad. That position is where it is now. I suppose I can try dropping it and see where that goes.

Rowan

Do have chafe issues from the saddle?

andrewclaus

Can you ride the bike no-handed? It helps me to sit upright for a while, stretch my neck around. My stem was way too long and I put a shorter one on with a higher angle, but yours looks about right.

I exercise my neck regularly, and I pay attention to shoulder position when riding as noted above. In my case, the pain is not debilitating, alleviates with short rest, and is completely gone after sleeping. I get it to some degree nearly every day in the saddle, and I just put up with it. Nobody ever told me bike touring was going to be completely painless and to me it's a small price to pay.

bradtx

KC8QV0, The only question I have about your fitment is the saddle height. You might try lowering it just a little. While there are some guidelines for this, I found that for my only bike with platform pedals my seat post is about a cm lower to account for the more casual, less cycling oriented footwear I often wear (flip flops as an example) when riding it.

Brad

KC8QVO

Thanks for the information. I will drop the seat post a bit and see what that does the next time I get out. I did close to 32 miles yesterday and barely noticed any neck/back strain, it was mostly my rear end that was sore, but not enough to keep me from my ride. I do not have a chafing issue with the saddle at all so that is good. As to the neck/back pain - once it starts in the only cure that I have found that works is to take my helmet off so there is less weight on the muscles. After my 80 miles last week the next day I wasn't hurting, not enough that it stood out to me, so it appears the pain is only while I ride and sets in after what I would consider "long mileage". I cant ride this bike hands-free, it isnt stable enough to do it.

LeeG

Ditto and what Rowan said. There may be more than one solution here, a combo. Looking at your photo I'd suggest flattening your lower back a bit so your neck doesn't hang down as much. Another way to find a solution is be aware of what's happening before fatigue on those muscles sets in. Maybe you have your nose to the grindstone too much in the last 20miles. Maybe changing position and cadence will help identify a solution, easier head movement looking at the scenery instead of one head position loading a specific muscle group for too long.

Arvadaman

Where are your handlebars in relation to your saddle height wise?

KC8QVO

Bars are about level with the seat, maybe a tad higher. I had the bike shop leave the head tube real tall - I have plans of adding a second stem underneath the bars for a dummy bar to hang my gear on, such as a front bar bag, to keep the bars clear. I could go up quite a bit higher with the bars, in other words.

Leebo

Put the lights on your bike, not on your helmet. I too, like a helmet light, but only at night for the commute.

Carbonfiberboy 

Yep, there it is: rounded back. Pretty much every time someone complains of neck pain, there's a rounded back. This is the solution:
https://www.bikeforums.net/road-cycli...discovery.html

fietsbob

might want to do some off the bike work on the body, free-weight training , stretching .

and maybe you are done with drop bars .. change to something offering a more upright posture.

djb

here's a question from a diff angle (I find your bike fit to look pretty good)--how much do you ride, how many hours a week do you ride? How many km do you tend to ride or are you new to biking?

To me the fact that you can ride 70miles, 110km until you have issues is already pretty darn good, and if you can go that far, you should find by trying out small changes, emphasis on small, you will probably find improvements.

One thing that helps with me (other than the main most important issue of the bike position working well) is to do regular hand position changes (as you do, I change all the time, sometimes every min or so, dont even realize I do it) , sometimes I stand, and also little breaks do wonders for giving a break to various muscles and keester.

you do of course realize you can only get so many suggestions from interwebs folks, in the end you have to listen to your body and go from there, trying to figure out what helps. Still though, you have to ride often and you will toughen up, but everbody's body is diff so go with what feels best.
Be assured that the more you ride, you will get stronger and more flexible, but frequent changes of hand/riding position are a big factor for me, along with small breaks.

KC8QVO

Thanks for the info. I checked out the other link with the posture change. I can try that. Ironically, I was starting to do that at the end of my 80 mile ride. The same section I took my helmet off for I was curving my back trying to stretch out while I was riding. It helped relieve the stress in that scenario, but only temporarily. I wasn't attempting to hold the position while I rode much.

As to how much I ride - I don't really get to ride much during the week so my riding is on the weekends, with the occasional week day ride if I really make an effort to do so. Time wise - I average about 10mph at the end of a full day trip. The first part is faster, then I drop off at the end. So figure 70 miles is 7 hours on the bike. I don't ride solid, though - I make several stops to grab a snack, lunch, sight-see, etc. On my shorter rides I cruise about 12mph (15-30 mile range, not as much gear/lighter).

My annual mileage was 1001 last year, first year "riding". I used to ride BMX years ago, but have not done that in about 11 years. This year I am at 1018 miles, with my goal being 1500 for the year. I am about 250 miles for the month of September.

djb

good luck trying out diff stuff, I have found with me that regular riding (commuting) is for me the best to get my body used to riding, but in the end, commutes dont make up for having to actually do long rides to figure out what parts of your body feel like whatever during and after 5, 6, 7 hour days. My touring speed tends to be about 10mph, was that 25 years ago and is pretty much the same now, all in all depending on the terrain, wind etc.