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how much does your touring bike weigh?

Old 10-02-15, 06:30 AM
  #176  
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Originally Posted by Happy Feet
But when you start adding camping gear etc... the advantages of a light weight bike have to be weighed against the ability to handle the load. In my mind, if I am already pushing 40+lb's down the road I would rather push 45 and know my bike won't fold in half than try to save 5lb's and worry all the time.
Sure, but for those willing to leave 1/2 or even 2/3 of that 40 pounds home the lighter bike may make sense. It is pretty easy to get to 20 pounds or less of gear and still camp and cook. I went coast to coast camping and cooking with 14 pounds of gear and that was without a lot of super light stuff. I have since shed a few more pounds and could go with 10 pounds if I wanted to and still camp and cook.

Those who don't want to go that minimal may still be able to get to 20 pounds or so of gear. You really don't need to sacrifice comfort to do so, at least that has been my experience.
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Old 10-02-15, 07:25 AM
  #177  
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Well, that is one end of a spectrum, which I can't knock as long as one has what they need to reasonably complete their tour, but if we do a google search of "loaded touring bikes" it would appear most of the world is carrying at least more bulk, if not more weight.

It's a mish mash mix of geographic locale, willingness to incur cost, desire to be self sufficient and personal ideas of comfort. And some other stuff like what you get a kick out of. I can totally see that, if one enjoyed seeing where they could save weight and wanted to invest in those areas, that going lightweight in gear and bike would fall naturally into place. I like messing around with bikes and so prefer older, cheaper templates to work on. I also have three competing expensive hobbies (videography, saltwater aquariums, diving) so I have to watch my expenditures. Better video lights I need, carbon fiber anything I don't.

No one's right and no one's wrong. I mostly travel alone so as long as I'm willing to peddle my choices it's all good. I would be a little cheesed if I made plans with someone and they either had to bail right away because they were ill prepared or were incredibly slow because they were grossly over weighted. In fact though, that's why I prefer to travel alone. I hate the feeling when I'm on a holiday that I'm beholding to someone else's schedule or expectations.

Last edited by Happy Feet; 10-02-15 at 08:39 AM.
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Old 10-02-15, 08:55 AM
  #178  
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Originally Posted by Happy Feet
Well, that is one end of a spectrum, which I can't knock as long as one has what they need to reasonably complete their tour, but if we do a google search of "loaded touring bikes" it would appear most of the world is carrying at least more bulk, if not more weight.
People Google "loaded touring" and come up with the set ups you describe and think that's how you have to tour. It's self reinforcing.

When I tour basically every other tourist I meet is surprised that I have a CF bike and just a handlebar bag and a saddlebag and have everything I need to camp and cook. They tend to have heavy touring bikes with 4x panniers etc (probably because that's how they've always done it or if they are new because thats how Google told them to do it). I'm an old fat guy, but end up climbing faster than stronger and younger riders because I have less weight to push up the hills.

You don't need to spend a lot of money to go lightweight. A steel or Al road bike is fine and packing sensibly rather than buying a lot of high tech gear can quickly reduce what and how much you carry. Clothing is a prime example where people just pack far too much.

Last edited by nun; 10-02-15 at 09:00 AM.
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Old 10-02-15, 01:58 PM
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remember you will have at least 2kg of water and tools
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Old 10-02-15, 02:46 PM
  #180  
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Originally Posted by pedlar
remember you will have at least 2kg of water and tools
Tools are usually included in gear weight.......consumables like water are not.
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Old 10-02-15, 04:12 PM
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Originally Posted by nun
People Google "loaded touring" and come up with the set ups you describe and think that's how you have to tour. It's self reinforcing.

When I tour basically every other tourist I meet is surprised that I have a CF bike and just a handlebar bag and a saddlebag and have everything I need to camp and cook. They tend to have heavy touring bikes with 4x panniers etc (probably because that's how they've always done it or if they are new because thats how Google told them to do it). I'm an old fat guy, but end up climbing faster than stronger and younger riders because I have less weight to push up the hills.

You don't need to spend a lot of money to go lightweight. A steel or Al road bike is fine and packing sensibly rather than buying a lot of high tech gear can quickly reduce what and how much you carry. Clothing is a prime example where people just pack far too much.
This post is so full of true.

I have toured with four panniers. The trouble was, I had trouble filling them in most cases. I realised I could pare that back to two panniers and a tent on top of the rack, plus a handlebar bag.

One of my plans is to acquire a Nelson Camper Carradice bag and to modify the fly of one of my tents (the inner is falling apart) with a floor; we went exploring at a "tip shop" (recycled goods outlet attached to a rubbish dump), and found people just throw away tents that have great fabric still).

I also know I can reduce my Trangia cookware to just the essentials, and I already have a lightweight down bag and sleep pad. I'd probably opt to go with my Shogun 400 fixie and try a weekend or two away with that set-up.

I totally agree about the clothing. The essentials for me are waterproof jacket (Ground Effects in this case), polypro base, T-shirt (no pockets, lightweight material), lightweight polarfleece jacket, spandex undies (not bikeshorts), synthetic shorts, long synthetic pants, woollen socks and bandana, plus long and short-fingered gloves. I had several sets of that everday wear when we toured Europe and the UK for over three months several years ago, and it served me well. I even had a down jacket thrown in there (and it was particularly useful in the French Alps and Scotland!).

Bulk ends up being as much as enemy as weight in packing. Hence substituting two or three pairs of undies for two pairs of bike shorts (no chamois), and tech Ts for jerseys because they don't have pockets and extended backs.

Where I tour, the weather can be marginal, so I like to have wind and cold protection, but even that doesn't have to be bulky to be functional. The Ground Effects StormTrooper jacket is an example.

The tent can be another bulky item. I have a bivvy tent, but that hasn't been used, because I tour with Machka and we need the bigger tent space. The fly I talked about above is from an old Mountain Designs 2p tent that we both have squeezed into, and by removing the liner, we open up a bit more usable space.

To get down to a particular light target weight for me would not cost any more than a new Carradice Nelson Camper. And all said and done, I could try to fit everything into the Nelson Longflap that I already have.

Hmmmm... this could be an interesting challenge.

Last edited by Rowan; 10-02-15 at 04:18 PM.
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Old 10-02-15, 05:31 PM
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Just wondering how long those who do ultralight stay on the road before returning home? More than a few months? Many of those who do RTW attempts have a relatively fully loaded setup, so at what point does the extra gear become more necessary or common? Is it easier to tour ultralight in some areas of the world than others?

Some of those who ride fully loaded, their bike is their home, and having no home to come back to, ultralight isn't as feasible. In the end, what does it matter, do whatever works for you. Nothing wrong with taking lots of gear if that's what makes you happy right?

As for the topic, I haven't weighed by bike, it weighs what it weighs... I do look out for overpacking of gear and buying too much food which can add up fast...
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Old 10-02-15, 06:05 PM
  #183  
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Originally Posted by Rowan

One of my plans is to acquire a Nelson Camper Carradice bag and to modify the fly of one of my tents (the inner is falling apart) with a floor; we went exploring at a "tip shop" (recycled goods outlet attached to a rubbish dump), and found people just throw away tents that have great fabric still).
Just a note, Carradice makes a Nelson saddlebag and the larger Camper saddlebag, both also come in a "longflap" version which is useful as it gives the option to greatly expand the volume if you need to carry something extra. I use a Camper Longflap and will often deploy the longflap to carry food/beer from a market to a campsite.
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Old 10-02-15, 06:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Rowan

I have toured with four panniers. The trouble was, I had trouble filling them in most cases. I realised I could pare that back to two panniers and a tent on top of the rack
I found this to be true as well and often make use of only two rear panniers but they are full and I don't have a lot of extra space in case I see something I want to bring back.
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Old 10-02-15, 06:08 PM
  #185  
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Originally Posted by LlamaBikes
Just wondering how long those who do ultralight stay on the road before returning home? More than a few months? Many of those who do RTW attempts have a relatively fully loaded setup, so at what point does the extra gear become more necessary or common? Is it easier to tour ultralight in some areas of the world than others?

Some of those who ride fully loaded, their bike is their home, and having no home to come back to, ultralight isn't as feasible. In the end, what does it matter, do whatever works for you. Nothing wrong with taking lots of gear if that's what makes you happy right?

As for the topic, I haven't weighed by bike, it weighs what it weighs... I do look out for overpacking of gear and buying too much food which can add up fast...
People have ridden around the world with ultralight setups and it's common to do 2 or 3 month trips.
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Old 10-02-15, 06:11 PM
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Originally Posted by robow
I found this to be true as well and often make use of only two rear panniers but they are full and I don't have a lot of extra space in case I see something I want to bring back.
I bring back photos and memories mostly. The only two things I brought back from my last trip was an enamel pin of the "Going to the Sun Road" and an SS Badger fridge magnet.
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Old 10-02-15, 06:14 PM
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Originally Posted by nun
Just a note, Carradice makes a Nelson saddlebag and the larger Camper saddlebag, both also come in a "longflap" version which is useful as it gives the option to greatly expand the volume if you need to carry something extra. I use a Camper Longflap and will often deploy the longflap to carry food/beer from a market to a campsite.
Yes. I got my model naming a bit mixed up there. It's the Carradice Nelson/Nelson Longflap and the Carradice Camper/Camper Longflap. I have the Nelson Longflap, and it is terrible useful for expanding to take extra stuff. And it is amazingly waterproof... enough so, that I wouldn't hesitate to keep electronic stuff in there.
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Old 10-02-15, 06:20 PM
  #188  
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It's an interesting conspiracy theory to consider that most of the people touring have been duped into their gear selections by the mind melding powers of the google Borg collective.. and equally attractive to be one of the few who are "in on the secret" about how it should really be done. Otherwise it might just be that most people, most of the time, have different priorities than going as light as possible for the sake of going as light as possible. I'm not knocking your choices, they are as valid as mine, but I suspect they represent the minority opinion in regards to overall touring.

There is a tipping point at which worrying about weight becomes a concern of diminishing returns. That point is whether you can achieve your touring goal in relative comfort. I suspect most people find that tipping point using conventional means and that is why there is no real push to further strip away what is already, for many, spartan resources. I like being self sufficient and don't want to call a taxi or hitch hike or sit around waiting for someone else to fix what I could fix because I wanted to save some weight and not bring enough tools. I don't like cooking, but some do, and they would probably enjoy doing that on their vacation rather than eating canned food from a pot with a spork. I can't relate, but I have even heard of some people packing spices!

The same applies to bikes. The law of diminishing returns suggests that people need a dependable platform they can trust and ride in order to complete a tour. That is what they seek(and why Ortleib panniers are so popular). For most that is a mid grade bike made of conventional materials. Once you can achieve your goal, you look to other sub goals within the tour itself. For some that is blogging, photography, site seeing, meeting locals, cooking... and for a few it is seeing how much additional weight they can drop from their kit. But that is a subgoal unrelated to the main goal which many people aren't that attracted to because they can already achieve their main goal with the weight they have. It's a valid sub goal, and for some forms of touring it may play a part in the main goal. But not usually to a large degree.

And few (I want to say no one but will err on the side of caution) is doing 3 month unsupported tours with 10lb's of gear in climates like Canada without resorting to restaurants and motels...

Last edited by Happy Feet; 10-02-15 at 06:28 PM.
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Old 10-02-15, 06:23 PM
  #189  
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Originally Posted by LlamaBikes
Just wondering how long those who do ultralight stay on the road before returning home? More than a few months? Many of those who do RTW attempts have a relatively fully loaded setup, so at what point does the extra gear become more necessary or common? Is it easier to tour ultralight in some areas of the world than others?

Some of those who ride fully loaded, their bike is their home, and having no home to come back to, ultralight isn't as feasible. In the end, what does it matter, do whatever works for you. Nothing wrong with taking lots of gear if that's what makes you happy right?

As for the topic, I haven't weighed by bike, it weighs what it weighs... I do look out for overpacking of gear and buying too much food which can add up fast...
If you are talking about extended RTW trips, op-shops/secondhand clothing stores are your friend. It's quite easy to spend only a couple of dollars to buy used clothing that will suffice for a particular segment of a tour.

Often you can pick up fine woollen garments that weren't meant for cycling, but are sure useful in certain conditions. Pulllovers, for example, or cotton T-shirts in really hot weather. You don't feel so guilty disposing of a garment after you've spend a couple of dollars, rather than tens of dollars or more when you've got no further use for it.

I spent a bit of time travelling by bike around Australia, in Canada and then back in Australia looking for work in country locations. I had a base inventory of cycling gear that stayed with me throughout. But when it came to work gear, I went to op-shops and bought what I needed, even down to boots. It was the one time when having four panniers worked with a full work wardrobe, as I had to move from orchard to orchard until I settled on one full-time job.

I learned in that particular phase that if I needed to travel light and cheap, I could keep myself warm, dry, and reasonably comfortable as I needed to.

Having said all that, though... it is nice to have cycling-specific gear that does what it is meant to, such as the aforementioned Ground Effects StormTrooper jacket, and shoes. And one of my favourite adventure wear fabrics is Capilene.
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Old 10-02-15, 06:34 PM
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Originally Posted by LlamaBikes
Just wondering how long those who do ultralight stay on the road before returning home? More than a few months? Many of those who do RTW attempts have a relatively fully loaded setup, so at what point does the extra gear become more necessary or common? Is it easier to tour ultralight in some areas of the world than others?

Some of those who ride fully loaded, their bike is their home, and having no home to come back to, ultralight isn't as feasible. In the end, what does it matter, do whatever works for you. Nothing wrong with taking lots of gear if that's what makes you happy right?

As for the topic, I haven't weighed by bike, it weighs what it weighs... I do look out for overpacking of gear and buying too much food which can add up fast...

Kurt from Bike Grease and Coffee made it from Alaska to the southern terminus of South America, and by the end of the trip, hardly had anything. Having more stuff does not necessarily equate being more/less prepared. The brain matters much more. He did a bottom bracket rebuild with a pie tin, some gasoline, a screwdriver, and some other MacGuyver tricks.

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Old 10-02-15, 06:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Happy Feet
It's an interesting conspiracy theory to consider that most of the people touring have been duped into their gear selections by the mind melding powers of the google Borg collective.. and equally attractive to be one of the few who are "in on the secret" about how it should really be done. Otherwise it might just be that most people, most of the time, have different priorities than going as light as possible for the sake of going as light as possible. I'm not knocking your choices, they are as valid as mine, but I suspect they represent the minority opinion in regards to overall touring.

There is a tipping point at which worrying about weight becomes a concern of diminishing returns. That point is whether you can achieve your touring goal in relative comfort. I suspect most people find that tipping point using conventional means and that is why there is no real push to further strip away what is already, for many, spartan resources. I like being self sufficient and don't want to call a taxi or hitch hike or sit around waiting for someone else to fix what I could fix because I wanted to save some weight and not bring enough tools. I don't like cooking, but some do, and they would probably enjoy doing that on their vacation rather than eating canned food from a pot with a spork. I can't relate, but I have even heard of some people packing spices!

The same applies to bikes. The law of diminishing returns suggests that people need a dependable platform they can trust and ride in order to complete a tour. That is what they seek(and why Ortleib panniers are so popular). For most that is a mid grade bike made of conventional materials. Once you can achieve your goal, you look to other sub goals within the tour itself. For some that is blogging, photography, site seeing, meeting locals, cooking... and for a few it is seeing how much additional weight they can drop from their kit. But that is a subgoal unrelated to the main goal which many people aren't that attracted to because they can already achieve their main goal with the weight they have. It's a valid sub goal, and for some forms of touring it may play a part in the main goal. But not usually to a large degree.
Your first paragraph is a bit defensive, but your points are valid. However, putting up other options is not a dictum on how to bicycle tour, but just that -- other options.

There was a guy I used to tour with in a group that always amazed everyone by the fact he had only two small panniers and a bar bag on his bike. IIRC, he had a steel-framed touring bicycle, but I can't remember the brand. He was comfortable in camp (and cooked), fast on the road, but a real gentleman who waited up for the regroups. Now, this is a decade or more ago, and I thought at the time... Wow.

Over a period of time, and with various experiences, people do decide whether what they take on a bicycle tour is actually worth the weight and bulk. Heck, I used to take a folding camp stool with me; now, if I need to, I take a small square of closed cell sleeping pad. My tool kit is now a Topeak Hexus folding tool and maybe a shifter cable, tube patch kit, and not much else; I used to have a crescent wrench in there along with FibreFix spoke, BB tool and other stuff.

There is one other little point. The more stuff you have, the more likelihood there is of misplacing or losing something along the way. Keeping it to the basics really does help avoid that.
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Old 10-02-15, 06:53 PM
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I was hoping the first para might be more amusing than anything. I have deliberately made attempts to say that other peoples choices are as valid as mine are. I certainly don't think I hold all the answers.
I also make some of the choices you are suggesting. For me, on the last trip, it was realizing I really don't need my cooking gear. I don't like cooking on the road, can put up with cold beans or bagels and hate washing pots of sticky stuff. Coffee I can buy on the road. So that eliminates (or frees up) a lot of space that probably means less pannier.
OTOH, I don't like to skimp on clothing. I really only bring two riding sets (I wash one in the shower with me and let it dry while wearing the other) but I do want rain gear and a warm warm top layer (plus mittens and a toque). Being cold wet and miserable is the shortest way to a bail I know of.
I also dislike clutter and am probably more anal than most about using something and putting it back where it belongs.

In many ways I suspect most of us share more values in common than apart and only really disagree in terms of degrees. Which, of course, on the internet get blown out of proportion. IRL, I never have discussions about how much a bike weighs other than general interest in an unusual design feature like a recumbent.
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Old 10-02-15, 07:11 PM
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Originally Posted by mdilthey
Kurt from Bike Grease and Coffee made it from Alaska to the southern terminus of South America, and by the end of the trip, hardly had anything. Having more stuff does not necessarily equate being more/less prepared. The brain matters much more. He did a bottom bracket rebuild with a pie tin, some gasoline, a screwdriver, and some other MacGuyver tricks.

Yes, but if you took all the stuff off his bike it would still fill two traditional panniers; it's just distributed all over the place. There is also something to be said for the difference between what someone with a lot of experience does compared to once or twice in a while tourers. There is also something to be said for what one starts off with compared to what one ends with. Is that the load he started out with early in the year in Alaska?
I had an army buddy who did the West Coast Trail in the nude, about as light weight as you can go. I would not suggest that equipment list to others.

Last edited by Happy Feet; 10-02-15 at 07:23 PM.
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Old 10-02-15, 08:54 PM
  #194  
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Originally Posted by Happy Feet
I was hoping the first para might be more amusing than anything. I have deliberately made attempts to say that other peoples choices are as valid as mine are. I certainly don't think I hold all the answers.
I also make some of the choices you are suggesting. For me, on the last trip, it was realizing I really don't need my cooking gear. I don't like cooking on the road, can put up with cold beans or bagels and hate washing pots of sticky stuff. Coffee I can buy on the road. So that eliminates (or frees up) a lot of space that probably means less pannier.
OTOH, I don't like to skimp on clothing. I really only bring two riding sets (I wash one in the shower with me and let it dry while wearing the other) but I do want rain gear and a warm warm top layer (plus mittens and a toque). Being cold wet and miserable is the shortest way to a bail I know of.
I also dislike clutter and am probably more anal than most about using something and putting it back where it belongs.

In many ways I suspect most of us share more values in common than apart and only really disagree in terms of degrees. Which, of course, on the internet get blown out of proportion. IRL, I never have discussions about how much a bike weighs other than general interest in an unusual design feature like a recumbent.
Touring is a very personal thing so obviously we all do it the way we want. But sometimes I feel that there are misconceptions about lightweight and ultralight touring. These usually revolve around it being a style that involves less comfort. In fact I find it more comfortable because the bike riding is easier and more fun and I have everything I need to cook, camp and stay warm. I drink tea so I make sure I have Earl Grey teabags and will brew up a couple of cups at night when I'm camping. As for clothes I carry one change of riding clothes (that are ok to wear off the bike too), long convertible pants, rain pants, rain jacket, warm jacket, gloves, balaclava, kung fu shoes. All my gear fits in a Carradice Camper saddlebag and an Ortlieb Classic handlebar bag and weights 19 lbs.
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Old 10-03-15, 03:50 AM
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all you need for touring is,some sort of bike,some gear and the will to get out there and go
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Old 10-03-15, 04:12 AM
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Originally Posted by pedlar
all you need for touring is,some sort of bike,some gear and the will to get out there and go
So true, but this thread is interesting because it has touched on so many aspects related to touring beyond just how much a particular bike weighs.

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Old 10-03-15, 04:35 AM
  #197  
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Originally Posted by Happy Feet
Yes, but if you took all the stuff off his bike it would still fill two traditional panniers; it's just distributed all over the place. There is also something to be said for the difference between what someone with a lot of experience does compared to once or twice in a while tourers. There is also something to be said for what one starts off with compared to what one ends with. Is that the load he started out with early in the year in Alaska?
I had an army buddy who did the West Coast Trail in the nude, about as light weight as you can go. I would not suggest that equipment list to others.
Of course, you are absolutely right. Redistribution doesn't always mean lighter than what would be normally in two panniers and a handlebar bag. In some ways, there is just a little more to go wrong with the bike as illustrated, as there are more rub points directly on the bike itself, and more straps or clamps to secure the bags to the bike.

And from the photo, I am fascinated as to exactly what sort of butt issues the guy has, what with the funny saddle and suspension seatpost, all on a fat bike.
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Old 10-03-15, 05:39 AM
  #198  
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Originally Posted by LlamaBikes
Just wondering how long those who do ultralight stay on the road before returning home? More than a few months? Many of those who do RTW attempts have a relatively fully loaded setup, so at what point does the extra gear become more necessary or common?
I think that the number of folks who ultralight tour is too small for them to be a major portion of the general touring community or of any given segment. So any segment you look at is likely to have way more folks who tour fully loaded than ultralight. I often read about folks going ultralight, but actually see very few on the road who are going ultralight. BTW, I find the same thing with backpacking.

I tend to like to go no less than 9 days and not much more than 10-12 weeks, but that has nothing to do with my going ultralight. I am just ready to go home after a couple months. I could just as well go indefinitely with what I carry, but have no desire to do so.

Originally Posted by LlamaBikes
Is it easier to tour ultralight in some areas of the world than others?
Probably. I'd think that location of the tour is more likely to be a reason to carry a bit more than trip length is. The large majority of us probably tour in first world countries regardless of our packing style.

Originally Posted by LlamaBikes
Some of those who ride fully loaded, their bike is their home, and having no home to come back to, ultralight isn't as feasible.
Isn't that called being homeless, not bike touring?

Last edited by staehpj1; 10-03-15 at 08:31 AM.
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Old 10-03-15, 08:22 AM
  #199  
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Rowan, I'm pretty certain it's a regular seat post, what looks like the suspension part appears to be the big Velcro part of his seat post bag. I guess he just like those nose less seats, it must be weird not to be able to correct with your inner leg on the nose of a seat. But if it works for him, what the heck. Yes though, a fat bike must be very cushy. I've yet to try one.
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Old 10-03-15, 09:40 AM
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Bike touring as a whole evolved since the first person put a load on a bike, and will continue evolving as new equipment becomes available. In my experience individual touring preferences also evolve as we gain experience, and more closely align with our touring needs and style.

What I find humorous is that when we "discover" something new to us, we believe that the only reason others don't jump on the bandwagon is due to lack of enlightenment or even ignorance. We sometimes also seem to believe that what we advocate is a new concept. At least that is what I take away from some of the posts.

I think what some folks don’t realize is that a lot of older riders have “been there and done that”. I know, we also used to walk 3 miles barefoot in the snow to school when we were kids too. Some of the more seasoned bike tourers’ styles have evolved from heavier to lighter loads as their preferences got sorted out. However, some of us have done just the opposite, going from 20 pound loads on a 20 pound bike to something a little more moderate. That is all you could carry and we rode what we had. I was ecstatic when I got a bike with a triple. I was even more excited when “real” touring bikes with low gears and adequate braze-ons for racks and fenders became available.

It is good to try different approaches, but there is no one size that fits everyone or all situations. I think it is good for people new to touring to hear about the different options, but most of us who have been at it for a while have a pretty good idea of what we want and why we want it. We are also pretty good at selecting the right tools for the anticipated situation.

Bottom line: there is no right or wrong way to bike tour, and that is the way it should be.

Last edited by Doug64; 10-03-15 at 09:45 AM.
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