anyone else 'hate' bar end shifters?
10-17-15, 06:48 AM
#26
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Ride what you like. I have bare ends on my touring bike, DT (both indexed and friction) on my C&V road bikes and even STI and Ergo on a couple of newer road bikes. For me, the bar ends on a loaded touring bike work very well.
10-17-15, 09:07 AM
#27
Banned
I also like the fact I can use them easily with cold weather gear on my hands!
I went from the stock, downtube lever, that was replaced by the bar end..
I dont even Hate my X-GF's.
Last edited by fietsbob; 10-18-15 at 08:34 AM.
10-17-15, 09:18 AM
#28
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Agree with others that life is too short to ride what you don't like and clearly a lot of folks tour happily on STIs. The advantage, IMHO, of bar ends is not so much reliability as friction shifting on the left. It will work more reliably with different combos of cranks and FDs than indexing. That intuitively makes sense since indexing requires that you use products designed to work together; indexing not so much. That may not matter to you but it matters to me.
10-17-15, 09:23 AM
#29
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I have bar-end shifters on two bikes, including on my Rodriguez UTB custom bike on which I installed brand new. The bike is now 3.5 years old with over 17,000 Km. No major problems with the rear 9-spd indexed shifting, except when the cable housing kit gets over a year old it starts to skip gears a little bit here and there. But this happens with any bike with worn out cables/housing. The friction front shifting, on the other hand, is always reliable. Overall, I like them very much!
Will I upgrade them one day? Most likely, but I am not in any rush. It will have to be something a whole lot better. I am thinking 2nd or 3rd generation wireless shifting from Shimano (or maybe even SRAM), when the wireless Ultegra (or Force) groupset becomes available at more reasonable pricing. I would prefer to stick with Shimano, but since I haven't heard anything about Shimano launching this technology anytime soon, I guess I might have to wait at least another 5 years.
Will I upgrade them one day? Most likely, but I am not in any rush. It will have to be something a whole lot better. I am thinking 2nd or 3rd generation wireless shifting from Shimano (or maybe even SRAM), when the wireless Ultegra (or Force) groupset becomes available at more reasonable pricing. I would prefer to stick with Shimano, but since I haven't heard anything about Shimano launching this technology anytime soon, I guess I might have to wait at least another 5 years.
10-17-15, 10:32 AM
#30
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Agree with others that life is too short to ride what you don't like and clearly a lot of folks tour happily on STIs. The advantage, IMHO, of bar ends is not so much reliability as friction shifting on the left. It will work more reliably with different combos of cranks and FDs than indexing. That intuitively makes sense since indexing requires that you use products designed to work together; indexing not so much. That may not matter to you but it matters to me.
10-17-15, 11:21 AM
#31
Senior Member
The only brifters I have used were the Campagnolo Ergos that came on my Litespeed Classic road bike, since replaced with down tube shifters. I didn't like them for three reasons...
A- To shift from one cog to any other you had to shift one gear at a time in succession. You couldn't go directly to the gear you wanted.
B- Indexing on a front derailleur?! Totally useless. As noted by others above, you need a smooth continuum of adjustment to keep the front derailleur from hitting the chain with certain rear cogs, not pre-determined click stops.
C- I have a bit of arthritis in the wrists. The sideways rear downshift/front upshift motion was awkward and aggravated the arthritis.
This was 17 years ago. Perhaps they've re-designed them by now. I've never used the STIs so can't comment on their operation. I like the bar end shifters on my touring bike. With canted On One Midge bars there is plenty of knee clearance and the very short bottom bar section places the shifters close to all riding positions.
A- To shift from one cog to any other you had to shift one gear at a time in succession. You couldn't go directly to the gear you wanted.
B- Indexing on a front derailleur?! Totally useless. As noted by others above, you need a smooth continuum of adjustment to keep the front derailleur from hitting the chain with certain rear cogs, not pre-determined click stops.
C- I have a bit of arthritis in the wrists. The sideways rear downshift/front upshift motion was awkward and aggravated the arthritis.
This was 17 years ago. Perhaps they've re-designed them by now. I've never used the STIs so can't comment on their operation. I like the bar end shifters on my touring bike. With canted On One Midge bars there is plenty of knee clearance and the very short bottom bar section places the shifters close to all riding positions.
10-17-15, 01:44 PM
#32
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The only brifters I have used were the Campagnolo Ergos that came on my Litespeed Classic road bike, since replaced with down tube shifters. I didn't like them for three reasons...
A- To shift from one cog to any other you had to shift one gear at a time in succession. You couldn't go directly to the gear you wanted.
B- Indexing on a front derailleur?! Totally useless. As noted by others above, you need a smooth continuum of adjustment to keep the front derailleur from hitting the chain with certain rear cogs, not pre-determined click stops.
C- I have a bit of arthritis in the wrists. The sideways rear downshift/front upshift motion was awkward and aggravated the arthritis.
This was 17 years ago. Perhaps they've re-designed them by now. I've never used the STIs so can't comment on their operation. I like the bar end shifters on my touring bike. With canted On One Midge bars there is plenty of knee clearance and the very short bottom bar section places the shifters close to all riding positions.
A- To shift from one cog to any other you had to shift one gear at a time in succession. You couldn't go directly to the gear you wanted.
B- Indexing on a front derailleur?! Totally useless. As noted by others above, you need a smooth continuum of adjustment to keep the front derailleur from hitting the chain with certain rear cogs, not pre-determined click stops.
C- I have a bit of arthritis in the wrists. The sideways rear downshift/front upshift motion was awkward and aggravated the arthritis.
This was 17 years ago. Perhaps they've re-designed them by now. I've never used the STIs so can't comment on their operation. I like the bar end shifters on my touring bike. With canted On One Midge bars there is plenty of knee clearance and the very short bottom bar section places the shifters close to all riding positions.
Oddly enough, my wife's bike is about to be upgraded. She specifically asked for the old ergos that only allow for shifting one cog at a time. To each their own.
10-17-15, 03:25 PM
#33
-
Bike makers appreciate the lower cost of bar end shifters. Microshift bar ends cost manufacturers $50 while cheap Shimano brifters are nearly $200. The difference of $150 is significant to some potential buyers considering $1300-1500 touring bikes.
Downtube shifters work just like barends, and they offer a cleaner / lower friction cable/housing run and concomitant weight reduction. They look prettier too. If you're young/flexible enough for the downtube reach, this is the way to go. Rivendell's Silver shifter can be used in either downtube or bar location with adapter parts.
I prefer brifters to barends myself for comfort and safety. Hands on hoods means brake actuation is only a fingertip away. I'm using Campy Veloce 10s brifters with a Shimano 3x9 XT/LX drivetrain + SRAM PC59 chain. I spent $96 on some Microshift Shimano-compatible 9s brifters a while back for spares. They are identical to Nashbar & Performance branded brifters, and I believe they only shift up or down one gear at a time (hope I'm wrong), whereas the Campys shift 3-up and 5-down per lever stroke.
Last edited by seeker333; 10-17-15 at 04:16 PM.
10-17-15, 03:34 PM
#34
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Never liked them, but I recently got a TT/tri bike with bar end shifters on the aerobars. They don't bother me too much on this bike, because they're right there where your hands are anyway. Now I guess if the brakes were right there handy, too, I'd really like this set up. As it is, instead of an awkward position change to shift, I get an awkward position change to brake.
10-17-15, 08:18 PM
#35
Senior Member
Have both, like both - depending upon their application. Commuter has a bar end, works great.
bar end is also easier to use with mittens.
bar end is also easier to use with mittens.
10-17-15, 11:39 PM
#36
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Since I've read about this concern many times over, this thread included, I'll toss out there that you can still have a hand on the brake when you shift with bar ends.
Many are concerned their hands aren't on the brakes when shifting and therefore like brifters for the safety.
When I shift with bar ends, I keep one hand on the ramp/brake hood. It's right there ready to slow the bike Dow. And my other hand is a whopping .0003seconds away from grasping the other brake lever.
It's not like both hands just go away from the brakes when one shifts with bar ends.
Many are concerned their hands aren't on the brakes when shifting and therefore like brifters for the safety.
When I shift with bar ends, I keep one hand on the ramp/brake hood. It's right there ready to slow the bike Dow. And my other hand is a whopping .0003seconds away from grasping the other brake lever.
It's not like both hands just go away from the brakes when one shifts with bar ends.
10-17-15, 11:54 PM
#37
Velocommuter Commando
Was planning to do some longer touring that never came to fruition last year, so the Long Haul Trucker I picked up has gotten virtually no use. It rides good, but I hate the shifters on it. So, when I go to choose a bike to ride on my daily jaunts, or even 2 or 3 day trips, I choose one with the sti shifters.
Had decided to sell the LHT and pick up a Jamis Aurora...or something with STI shifters. But I see all the touring bikes are going with the bar ends now and don't even see the Aurora offered at the Jamis website now [only a handful of brands still offered the sti's when I was shopping around last year anyway].
I never did get the argument that if 'sti's' FAILED, you would be 'stuck' while touring, thusly the argument for bar ends. That might be true if one is sojourning across Africa or some 'stan' country or maybe a forlorn desert somewhere to get their picture in National Geographic [or Adventure Cycling, ha]...but that's hard core. Most of us [I would imagine] are touring in civilized vicinities where bike shops are known to exist [along with the squat toilets anyway, LOL]. I've never heard of an sti shifter failing anyway [for real...just the possibility is thrown out there, like it's a common thing or something]. Maybe on another planet [the one I'm not from].
Ah well. I really tried to like the LHT...and I do. But I hate those bar ends. And that's why I'll probably use my steel bianchi when I do actually go on a longer self contained tour [it has sti].
Had decided to sell the LHT and pick up a Jamis Aurora...or something with STI shifters. But I see all the touring bikes are going with the bar ends now and don't even see the Aurora offered at the Jamis website now [only a handful of brands still offered the sti's when I was shopping around last year anyway].
I never did get the argument that if 'sti's' FAILED, you would be 'stuck' while touring, thusly the argument for bar ends. That might be true if one is sojourning across Africa or some 'stan' country or maybe a forlorn desert somewhere to get their picture in National Geographic [or Adventure Cycling, ha]...but that's hard core. Most of us [I would imagine] are touring in civilized vicinities where bike shops are known to exist [along with the squat toilets anyway, LOL]. I've never heard of an sti shifter failing anyway [for real...just the possibility is thrown out there, like it's a common thing or something]. Maybe on another planet [the one I'm not from].
Ah well. I really tried to like the LHT...and I do. But I hate those bar ends. And that's why I'll probably use my steel bianchi when I do actually go on a longer self contained tour [it has sti].
10-18-15, 09:29 AM
#39
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Since I've read about this concern many times over, this thread included, I'll toss out there that you can still have a hand on the brake when you shift with bar ends.
Many are concerned their hands aren't on the brakes when shifting and therefore like brifters for the safety.
When I shift with bar ends, I keep one hand on the ramp/brake hood. It's right there ready to slow the bike Dow. And my other hand is a whopping .0003seconds away from grasping the other brake lever.
It's not like both hands just go away from the brakes when one shifts with bar ends.
Many are concerned their hands aren't on the brakes when shifting and therefore like brifters for the safety.
When I shift with bar ends, I keep one hand on the ramp/brake hood. It's right there ready to slow the bike Dow. And my other hand is a whopping .0003seconds away from grasping the other brake lever.
It's not like both hands just go away from the brakes when one shifts with bar ends.
I found that I shift a lot more in gently rolling terrain than in the hills or mountains.
10-18-15, 09:36 AM
#40
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I would rather ride with stem shifters than bar end shifter. Oh snap! I already do!
10-18-15, 12:37 PM
#41
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I love 'em!!!
All of my road bikes have come with downtube shifters originally, but after getting into serious riding in the mid '70s (and occasional double draft lines on Century rides), I switched to SunTour ratcheting (friction) barcons and never looked back. My hands stay on the bars, in the drops, and I can shift seamlessly. Shifting on bumpy roads is not a problem...
Now whenever I get a 'new' bike (I prefer C&V steel), the first thing I do is switch them to SunTour barcons. So all my bikes are outfitted to shift alike. Double or triple front, and all have six speed freewheels. One 'go-fast' road bike, one dedicated touring bike, and my faithful old '75 Fuji that I bought new waaaaay back in the day...
So if any of you want to get rid of your old SunTour barcons (and bare-stainless cable sets), send me a PM!!!! I'm down to only one 'spare'!!!
All of my road bikes have come with downtube shifters originally, but after getting into serious riding in the mid '70s (and occasional double draft lines on Century rides), I switched to SunTour ratcheting (friction) barcons and never looked back. My hands stay on the bars, in the drops, and I can shift seamlessly. Shifting on bumpy roads is not a problem...
Now whenever I get a 'new' bike (I prefer C&V steel), the first thing I do is switch them to SunTour barcons. So all my bikes are outfitted to shift alike. Double or triple front, and all have six speed freewheels. One 'go-fast' road bike, one dedicated touring bike, and my faithful old '75 Fuji that I bought new waaaaay back in the day...
So if any of you want to get rid of your old SunTour barcons (and bare-stainless cable sets), send me a PM!!!! I'm down to only one 'spare'!!!
10-18-15, 12:38 PM
#42
Senior Member
It's like playing "musical chairs" chairs with your hands when needing to do double shifts, both front and rear derailleurs. If you are not doing double shifts , you are not utilizing the full capacity of your gear range.
I found that I shift a lot more in gently rolling terrain than in the hills or mountains.
I found that I shift a lot more in gently rolling terrain than in the hills or mountains.
10-18-15, 05:16 PM
#44
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It's like playing "musical chairs" chairs with your hands when needing to do double shifts, both front and rear derailleurs. If you are not doing double shifts , you are not utilizing the full capacity of your gear range.
I found that I shift a lot more in gently rolling terrain than in the hills or mountains.
I found that I shift a lot more in gently rolling terrain than in the hills or mountains.
I just find a combo that I like and shift accordingly when the terrain changes.
I could see bar ends being less than desirable if I were clicking my STIs like a method out chimp since my hands would be constantly all over the place.
10-18-15, 05:48 PM
#45
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Never used them myself, but the only shifter I've enjoyed have been trigger shifters. I didn't care for the Rohloff twist/grip shifter, so on my new touring bike I'm getting trigger shifters modified to work with Rohloff.
10-18-15, 07:25 PM
#46
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I ride bar ends but they aren't perfect. They are annoying to install, they make you a little slower than STI, and in 20 years I wonder if I'll be able to find nice 8-speed cassettes to use with them.
But, I know they'll never break, whereas I've broken a set of STIs. Also, bar ends discourage constant shifting, which is a good thing if you are trying to enjoy yourself rather than squeeze out every drop of performance from your ride.
For racing and fast riding in traffic STIs are great. But for a bike that will be used and abused for decades on comfy long rides, bar ends and thumb shifters will save you money.
But, I know they'll never break, whereas I've broken a set of STIs. Also, bar ends discourage constant shifting, which is a good thing if you are trying to enjoy yourself rather than squeeze out every drop of performance from your ride.
For racing and fast riding in traffic STIs are great. But for a bike that will be used and abused for decades on comfy long rides, bar ends and thumb shifters will save you money.
Last edited by Pukeskywalker; 10-18-15 at 07:32 PM.
10-21-15, 07:22 AM
#47
No one carries the DogBoy
I echo the others suggesting you just put the STI on the LHT. Mostly I posted to say that the Aurora is still on the Jamis website here
One note of caution. Check your brake cable pull. If you have long-pull drop bar levers then STI levers may require the addition of a travel agent.
One note of caution. Check your brake cable pull. If you have long-pull drop bar levers then STI levers may require the addition of a travel agent.
10-21-15, 07:38 AM
#48
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It's like playing "musical chairs" chairs with your hands when needing to do double shifts, both front and rear derailleurs. If you are not doing double shifts , you are not utilizing the full capacity of your gear range.
I found that I shift a lot more in gently rolling terrain than in the hills or mountains.
I found that I shift a lot more in gently rolling terrain than in the hills or mountains.
10-21-15, 08:02 AM
#49
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I can't stand bar-end shifters either.
You mentioned that you were considering a Jamis Aurora. In 2013, I purchased a new Aurora, but this was after they had switched to bar-end shifters. What I found out was that any Jamis dealer can look at what past-year Jamis bikes are sitting in the home-office warehouse. They sell past-year models for less than 2/3 of the current-year prices. I went to my local Jamis dealer and ordered a 2010 since it had the shifters and (almost) the gearing I wanted. I got a great deal and a bike that I love to ride (I'm taking it on a 4-night mini-tour this weekend).
You mentioned that you were considering a Jamis Aurora. In 2013, I purchased a new Aurora, but this was after they had switched to bar-end shifters. What I found out was that any Jamis dealer can look at what past-year Jamis bikes are sitting in the home-office warehouse. They sell past-year models for less than 2/3 of the current-year prices. I went to my local Jamis dealer and ordered a 2010 since it had the shifters and (almost) the gearing I wanted. I got a great deal and a bike that I love to ride (I'm taking it on a 4-night mini-tour this weekend).
10-21-15, 09:31 AM
#50
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When I first tried bar end shifters in the 70s or 80s, compared to the other option of down tube shifters I was sold on them. And when they became available with indexed shifting, that made something great even better.
A couple years ago I put some brifters on one of my bikes, after about 100 miles went back to bar end shifters. I currently have three bikes with bar end shifers, one with down tube shifters, one rotary (Rohloff) shifter, and two bikes with flat bars that have trigger shifters.
If I was just starting out biking now, I probably would start out with brifters and be sold on them. But, after decades of using bar end shifters, it is just natural for me to like those best.
I find that I am often cross chained with my errand bike that has flat bars and trigger shifters. When I put my hand on my bar end shifters, it immediately tells me about where on the cassette or crankset I am, thus I am less likely to cross chain. But with trigger shifters (or when I tried brifters), I was frequently cross chaining because those shifters lacked that feedback.
A couple years ago I put some brifters on one of my bikes, after about 100 miles went back to bar end shifters. I currently have three bikes with bar end shifers, one with down tube shifters, one rotary (Rohloff) shifter, and two bikes with flat bars that have trigger shifters.
If I was just starting out biking now, I probably would start out with brifters and be sold on them. But, after decades of using bar end shifters, it is just natural for me to like those best.
I find that I am often cross chained with my errand bike that has flat bars and trigger shifters. When I put my hand on my bar end shifters, it immediately tells me about where on the cassette or crankset I am, thus I am less likely to cross chain. But with trigger shifters (or when I tried brifters), I was frequently cross chaining because those shifters lacked that feedback.