How much $ did you budget on your Panniers/Bags?
11-03-15, 01:12 PM
#76
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I used 2 of those bike bins with homemade pullout bags sewed by a lady tailor, cost three times as much, oh well. And I did half the work. I was 100% satisfied with the results, except the weakest link is the clasps that can get ripped off the bin. They crashed well, kept out the rain and mud and were easy enough to wash off. I used little locks that at least lets you know if they were tampered with, didn't happen. I tied them down with skate laces that made it look less stealable also. It was absolutely easy to open them up at anytime to dig out my Ipad or pump, etc. and unload at the hotel. Mud stays on the bike and bin. Looks neater IMO.
Yes they add 5.6 lbs weight. They do however hold ALL the stuff, in a large suitcase, I took on all car and plane trips of the past. 5 shirts, 2 pants, 3 shorts, 7 sets socks/ undies, bath/ shaver kit, maps, Ipad, chargers/ adaptors, spare spokes and pump. On off days I left one bag at the hotel and put the rain coats in the other. I had a dry bag on top for overflow of coats, laundry stuff.
In the front I made a big CF shark-nose box bolted to the headtube. It was rather heavy with bike parts/ tubes, chocolate bars and helped the drum brakes break my fork 3 times. And still I needed 2 shopping bags hanging on the handlebar for extra drinks, lunch, bags, rags and rain cape for easy access. Didn't even have camp stuff. LOL 120 to 130 lbs. Tools all over and in my pockets. With a Rohloff, NO problem.
The bin lid also handy at lunchtime. They stayed on the entire trip, including bus rides. My steel rack helped this no doubt. I also had a spare 700 tire tied around the back.
Yes they add 5.6 lbs weight. They do however hold ALL the stuff, in a large suitcase, I took on all car and plane trips of the past. 5 shirts, 2 pants, 3 shorts, 7 sets socks/ undies, bath/ shaver kit, maps, Ipad, chargers/ adaptors, spare spokes and pump. On off days I left one bag at the hotel and put the rain coats in the other. I had a dry bag on top for overflow of coats, laundry stuff.
In the front I made a big CF shark-nose box bolted to the headtube. It was rather heavy with bike parts/ tubes, chocolate bars and helped the drum brakes break my fork 3 times. And still I needed 2 shopping bags hanging on the handlebar for extra drinks, lunch, bags, rags and rain cape for easy access. Didn't even have camp stuff. LOL 120 to 130 lbs. Tools all over and in my pockets. With a Rohloff, NO problem.
The bin lid also handy at lunchtime. They stayed on the entire trip, including bus rides. My steel rack helped this no doubt. I also had a spare 700 tire tied around the back.
Last edited by GamblerGORD53; 11-03-15 at 06:42 PM.
11-03-15, 03:51 PM
#77
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Anhaica Bag Works is the best, hands down. Thousands of miles, not even a hint of a problem.
https://www.etsy.com/listing/2508060...home_active_10
https://www.etsy.com/listing/2508060...home_active_10
11-03-15, 03:56 PM
#78
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[QUOTE=bikenh;18291487]
I support your decision to test! Do let us know the results! I think your educated guess of which factor best are spot on. I remember growing up my dad and I noticed the big rig trucks added those ramps to prevent the container from being a drag. I wonder the difference between just rear panniers, just front, and both together. I think both might be more aero than one or the other.
The biggest disadvantage: they don't fit as much as my store bought panniers.
You call that a disadvantage?
The more you can carry the more space it takes. The more space it takes the more aerodynamic drag it creates. I think this is what I was seeing this summer. I couldn't figure out while going through the Gulf Coast states why my average speed SUCKED! It was totally horrible. I remember last year leaving my mom's house in NW Ohio and riding up towards Toledo and then heading on down south for the night. I did a 5:16 century full loaded. This summer going through GA/FL/AL(all good pavement unlike MS and LA) I was only averaging 15-16mph(it's flatter than around my mom's house and their was no wind). I was stumped. It totally boggled my mine until after I got back from the trip and I went out for a group ride with the buckets still on the bike and I was fighting like crap to stay up with the guys. Last year when I got home from the trip I was taking it easy to stay up with he guys. One of the guys got to joking about how the buckets must be adding a lot of aero drag. The more I got to thinking about it the more I realized the past three years I was using a backpack, quite aero, this year I was using the buckets(carrying 10 pounds less of equipment this year compared to the three years prior) and I had that big block wall sitting right behind the legs that was acting as brick wall trying to keep from moving any faster even when I was putting out the same effort.
I'm seriously thinking about going out next year and doing a nice extensive comparison test around here of the different packing systems and show both not only how they load the bike down, how they effect aero drag on the bike but also how adding weight changes the amount of effort you have to put out. Yes, I fully plan to use the backpack as one of the testing models as I have a feeling its probably overall the second best on the list for carrying equipment on a bike. The worst way to carry equipment is probably panniers. I have a feeling a trailer is probably better than panniers. The testing would confirm or deny my guesses. I know a trailer won't effect the weight load on the bike like panniers will. It would be interesting to go as far as mounting front panniers and see how much of a difference you get as compared to just rear panniers only. My guess is that once you add front panniers on you'll really block the wind and slow yourself down much more significantly than you would with just rear panniers. Problem is my bike doesn't have front rack mount capabilities at least not using standard mounting options like on the rear. I know all the data I want to collect I just need to get the bike back and get my hands on a couple of the standard equipment mounting concepts and then get my hands on some of the testing equipment.
You call that a disadvantage?
The more you can carry the more space it takes. The more space it takes the more aerodynamic drag it creates. I think this is what I was seeing this summer. I couldn't figure out while going through the Gulf Coast states why my average speed SUCKED! It was totally horrible. I remember last year leaving my mom's house in NW Ohio and riding up towards Toledo and then heading on down south for the night. I did a 5:16 century full loaded. This summer going through GA/FL/AL(all good pavement unlike MS and LA) I was only averaging 15-16mph(it's flatter than around my mom's house and their was no wind). I was stumped. It totally boggled my mine until after I got back from the trip and I went out for a group ride with the buckets still on the bike and I was fighting like crap to stay up with the guys. Last year when I got home from the trip I was taking it easy to stay up with he guys. One of the guys got to joking about how the buckets must be adding a lot of aero drag. The more I got to thinking about it the more I realized the past three years I was using a backpack, quite aero, this year I was using the buckets(carrying 10 pounds less of equipment this year compared to the three years prior) and I had that big block wall sitting right behind the legs that was acting as brick wall trying to keep from moving any faster even when I was putting out the same effort.
I'm seriously thinking about going out next year and doing a nice extensive comparison test around here of the different packing systems and show both not only how they load the bike down, how they effect aero drag on the bike but also how adding weight changes the amount of effort you have to put out. Yes, I fully plan to use the backpack as one of the testing models as I have a feeling its probably overall the second best on the list for carrying equipment on a bike. The worst way to carry equipment is probably panniers. I have a feeling a trailer is probably better than panniers. The testing would confirm or deny my guesses. I know a trailer won't effect the weight load on the bike like panniers will. It would be interesting to go as far as mounting front panniers and see how much of a difference you get as compared to just rear panniers only. My guess is that once you add front panniers on you'll really block the wind and slow yourself down much more significantly than you would with just rear panniers. Problem is my bike doesn't have front rack mount capabilities at least not using standard mounting options like on the rear. I know all the data I want to collect I just need to get the bike back and get my hands on a couple of the standard equipment mounting concepts and then get my hands on some of the testing equipment.
11-03-15, 04:54 PM
#79
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This is more of a question on how much you'd be willing to spend. Throw in handlebar bag as well. There's obviously a budget route, but since I'm not going budget on my touring bike, why start now? *smile*
The reason I'm asking is that the Brooks Land's End and John O'Groats panniers look great but are super pricey. But the premium is almost double compared to other Ortleib quality panniers. I'm factoring in that I'm a fan of the aesthetic. These are the first panniers I've found that I think look good and are high rankling in terms of quality and function.
So, what do you consider a reasonable budget for long-lasting, waterproof panniers/handlebar bags for someone who plans on doing lots of touring the rest of their life?
The reason I'm asking is that the Brooks Land's End and John O'Groats panniers look great but are super pricey. But the premium is almost double compared to other Ortleib quality panniers. I'm factoring in that I'm a fan of the aesthetic. These are the first panniers I've found that I think look good and are high rankling in terms of quality and function.
So, what do you consider a reasonable budget for long-lasting, waterproof panniers/handlebar bags for someone who plans on doing lots of touring the rest of their life?
11-03-15, 09:22 PM
#80
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They *are* Ortlieb rollers in a different colour and leather doodads! The signature Ortlieb rack system is part of the bags as well. Considered, based on the Tim Moss review, more durable than any other Ortliebs. But it seems the traps leave something to be desired.
11-03-15, 10:02 PM
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I have some Ortlieb bike packer plus rear panniers for big loads and added an extra lower hook and extra rail clip. I'd rather have some redundancy if I'm carrying too much stuff. My $.02 the big bags are too big for touring unless you needs lots of camp comfort. get one of those front Gucci Brooks bags for the rear then get a custom made small saddlebag for the front to match.
11-03-15, 10:17 PM
#82
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I have some Ortlieb bike packer plus rear panniers for big loads and added an extra lower hook and extra rail clip. I'd rather have some redundancy if I'm carrying too much stuff. My $.02 the big bags are too big for touring unless you needs lots of camp comfort. get one of those front Gucci Brooks bags for the rear then get a custom made small saddlebag for the front to match.
11-04-15, 06:36 PM
#83
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They look amazing!!! And pretty self-explanatory in terms of use. I'm probably overthinking the latch-on mechanism, which I know is quite nice on the Ortliebs. But with lots of on and off (I keep my panniers in my tent with me) I value a robust and easy to use system. How are they in that regard?
11-04-15, 11:23 PM
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Regardless of the brand, waterproof is nice. Also those shoulder straps are really handy when you have to climb 3 flights of stairs in a place with no elevator. In some parts of the world elevators are not the norm. Being able to carry all 4 bags saves at least one trip.
My wife uses the Ortlieb Packer Plus without shoulder straps, but she only carries rear panniers.
Cleaning off the mud after riding through the recently flooded area near Calgary, Alberta a couple of years ago.
My wife uses the Ortlieb Packer Plus without shoulder straps, but she only carries rear panniers.
Cleaning off the mud after riding through the recently flooded area near Calgary, Alberta a couple of years ago.
11-05-15, 02:51 AM
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Coming late to this thread,
I first had a set of Australian made Avance panniers which were well made and served well but were never waterproof.
I now have Ortlieb rear, front and bar bag but use a klikfix mount for the bar bag as I found it much more user friendly than the Ortlieb mount.
Get the best you can afford.
Mike
I first had a set of Australian made Avance panniers which were well made and served well but were never waterproof.
I now have Ortlieb rear, front and bar bag but use a klikfix mount for the bar bag as I found it much more user friendly than the Ortlieb mount.
Get the best you can afford.
Mike
11-05-15, 04:08 AM
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I'm seriously thinking about going out next year and doing a nice extensive comparison test around here of the different packing systems and show both not only how they load the bike down, how they effect aero drag on the bike but also how adding weight changes the amount of effort you have to put out. Yes, I fully plan to use the backpack as one of the testing models as I have a feeling its probably overall the second best on the list for carrying equipment on a bike.
The worst way to carry equipment is probably panniers.
I have a feeling a trailer is probably better than panniers. The testing would confirm or deny my guesses. I know a trailer won't effect the weight load on the bike like panniers will.
It would be interesting to go as far as mounting front panniers and see how much of a difference you get as compared to just rear panniers only. My guess is that once you add front panniers on you'll really block the wind and slow yourself down much more significantly than you would with just rear panniers.
At one time the front panniers were made aerodynamic and it was claimed they broke the wind, and reduced aero drag a bit like a fairing on a motor cycle. Not sure how much to believe that, but what is interesting is that thought was given to the problem and a solution suggested, unlike today when pretty nasty aero bags are the norm. About the only curent salvation are the waterproof bags that are aero by accident.
The Tailwind/angletech panniers are still available, but only for the rear, though possibly the fact they are smallish means they can do double duty. But they are sold mostly to recumbent riders, most of whom are pretty serious about reducing aero drag. Goes to show most riders don't care.
Last edited by MassiveD; 11-05-15 at 04:14 AM.
11-05-15, 06:38 AM
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Regardless of the brand, waterproof is nice. Also those shoulder straps are really handy when you have to climb 3 flights of stairs in a place with no elevator. In some parts of the world elevators are not the norm. Being able to carry all 4 bags saves at least one trip.
My wife uses the Ortlieb Packer Plus without shoulder straps, but she only carries rear panniers.
Cleaning off the mud after riding through the recently flooded area near Calgary, Alberta a couple of years ago.
My wife uses the Ortlieb Packer Plus without shoulder straps, but she only carries rear panniers.
Cleaning off the mud after riding through the recently flooded area near Calgary, Alberta a couple of years ago.
11-05-15, 06:41 AM
#88
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Coming late to this thread,
I first had a set of Australian made Avance panniers which were well made and served well but were never waterproof.
I now have Ortlieb rear, front and bar bag but use a klikfix mount for the bar bag as I found it much more user friendly than the Ortlieb mount.
Get the best you can afford.
Mike
I first had a set of Australian made Avance panniers which were well made and served well but were never waterproof.
I now have Ortlieb rear, front and bar bag but use a klikfix mount for the bar bag as I found it much more user friendly than the Ortlieb mount.
Get the best you can afford.
Mike
Thanks for the klikfix mount info... Will come in handy I'm sure!
11-05-15, 06:46 AM
#89
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The Tailwind/angletech panniers are still available, but only for the rear, though possibly the fact they are smallish means they can do double duty. But they are sold mostly to recumbent riders, most of whom are pretty serious about reducing aero drag. Goes to show most riders don't care.
11-05-15, 07:27 AM
#90
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I sort of took a trip all over the place with Panniers. Well not all over the place but I have a full set now.
I started with the Axiom Typhoons - I paid around $100 for them. I have a Tubus rack front and back. I used them on the back for a while but the mounting system didn't allow me to position them where I would keep them off my heels. I switched them up front and love them in that configuration. I have used them in the rain a number of times and they have always been dry.
Once I moved them up front I started eyeing new bags for the back. I bought a Dynamo wheel from Bike24 for 65 euros and on impulse I threw in a set of Bike24 branded Ortlieb back rollers. for around 90 euros. Bike24 removed them from the order and informed me they wouldn't ship them to the US. They didn't inform the shipping dept and they showed up and I love them on the back. The invoice from that order is a mess but I am finally paid up in full.
Since Bike24 said they couldn't ship them and transit time was a week or so I ended up buying an Ortlieb Vario on closeout for $99 to serve double duty as a commuter bag. I run it on my rear rack for my commuter and as a backpack for my rode bike or anything off the bike. I am very pleased with it as a commuting bag. And since I can't leave well enough alone I also orderd a Ortlieb Bike Shopper for the other side of the rack. I run the Vario with my change of clothes, lunch, etc. and the Bike Shopper empty to get groceries and such.
And to not leave well enough alone I picked up a Ortlieb Rack Pack and Ultimate 5 handlebar bag branded from Rose bike for 45 euros each. I haven't used either of them but I expect them to be the same quality the other Ortlieb pieces I have are. My pieces are all mish-mashed but I kept with the gray and black scheme the Axioms started so they will at least match better than my shorts and shirt ever will.
My two configurations are:
Commuting: Vario and Bike Shopper on the rear - I am debating trying them for a bit up front too.
Touring: Axiom Typhoons up front and Ortlieb back rollers in the back with the rack pack and handlebar bag.
Of course the touring setup is subject to only as many bags as needed for the trip. I don't expect any epic journeys in the near future.
If you don't mind branding:
https://www.rosebikes.co.uk/search/fi...ortlieb%2Frose
https://www.bike24.de/1.php?content=8...=1000,5,75,307
I started with the Axiom Typhoons - I paid around $100 for them. I have a Tubus rack front and back. I used them on the back for a while but the mounting system didn't allow me to position them where I would keep them off my heels. I switched them up front and love them in that configuration. I have used them in the rain a number of times and they have always been dry.
Once I moved them up front I started eyeing new bags for the back. I bought a Dynamo wheel from Bike24 for 65 euros and on impulse I threw in a set of Bike24 branded Ortlieb back rollers. for around 90 euros. Bike24 removed them from the order and informed me they wouldn't ship them to the US. They didn't inform the shipping dept and they showed up and I love them on the back. The invoice from that order is a mess but I am finally paid up in full.
Since Bike24 said they couldn't ship them and transit time was a week or so I ended up buying an Ortlieb Vario on closeout for $99 to serve double duty as a commuter bag. I run it on my rear rack for my commuter and as a backpack for my rode bike or anything off the bike. I am very pleased with it as a commuting bag. And since I can't leave well enough alone I also orderd a Ortlieb Bike Shopper for the other side of the rack. I run the Vario with my change of clothes, lunch, etc. and the Bike Shopper empty to get groceries and such.
And to not leave well enough alone I picked up a Ortlieb Rack Pack and Ultimate 5 handlebar bag branded from Rose bike for 45 euros each. I haven't used either of them but I expect them to be the same quality the other Ortlieb pieces I have are. My pieces are all mish-mashed but I kept with the gray and black scheme the Axioms started so they will at least match better than my shorts and shirt ever will.
My two configurations are:
Commuting: Vario and Bike Shopper on the rear - I am debating trying them for a bit up front too.
Touring: Axiom Typhoons up front and Ortlieb back rollers in the back with the rack pack and handlebar bag.
Of course the touring setup is subject to only as many bags as needed for the trip. I don't expect any epic journeys in the near future.
If you don't mind branding:
https://www.rosebikes.co.uk/search/fi...ortlieb%2Frose
https://www.bike24.de/1.php?content=8...=1000,5,75,307
Last edited by danmyersmn; 11-05-15 at 07:33 AM.
11-05-15, 08:01 AM
#91
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Their Suffolk panniers look great in that regard but are a fair bit heavier because of the extra bags and puches on the outside.
I own a pair of black Ortlieb Backroller Plus and the bags hold up great and don't discolor in the sun at all. But that might be because of the black color. If I had to buy a new pair and had money to burn I would probably either get the Ortlieb Backroller Plus High-Visibility (reflective thread run through the entire bag. The complete thing looks normal in daylight and just light up under headlights!) or perhaps the QL3 & Tubus minimal. Those bags and racks just look sexy.
11-05-15, 09:22 AM
#92
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This is more of a question on how much you'd be willing to spend. Throw in handlebar bag as well. There's obviously a budget route, but since I'm not going budget on my touring bike, why start now? *smile*
The reason I'm asking is that the Brooks Land's End and John O'Groats panniers look great but are super pricey. But the premium is almost double compared to other Ortleib quality panniers. I'm factoring in that I'm a fan of the aesthetic. These are the first panniers I've found that I think look good and are high rankling in terms of quality and function.
So, what do you consider a reasonable budget for long-lasting, waterproof panniers/handlebar bags for someone who plans on doing lots of touring the rest of their life?
The reason I'm asking is that the Brooks Land's End and John O'Groats panniers look great but are super pricey. But the premium is almost double compared to other Ortleib quality panniers. I'm factoring in that I'm a fan of the aesthetic. These are the first panniers I've found that I think look good and are high rankling in terms of quality and function.
So, what do you consider a reasonable budget for long-lasting, waterproof panniers/handlebar bags for someone who plans on doing lots of touring the rest of their life?
me, i'm a form-follows-function kind of guy. i have ortliebs, and perfectly pleased with them. mine are yellow for visibility purposes. not the prettiest ones out there, but visible and waterproof are priorities to me. just sayin'.
11-05-15, 09:51 AM
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11-05-15, 09:59 AM
#94
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We had these in our store a year or so ago and while the fabric itself looked really nice the straps were downright stupid. It was something of a cotton polyester mix but even in the shop they started fraying. I believe we sent them all back.
Their Suffolk panniers look great in that regard but are a fair bit heavier because of the extra bags and puches on the outside.
I own a pair of black Ortlieb Backroller Plus and the bags hold up great and don't discolor in the sun at all. But that might be because of the black color. If I had to buy a new pair and had money to burn I would probably either get the Ortlieb Backroller Plus High-Visibility (reflective thread run through the entire bag. The complete thing looks normal in daylight and just light up under headlights!) or perhaps the QL3 & Tubus minimal. Those bags and racks just look sexy.
Their Suffolk panniers look great in that regard but are a fair bit heavier because of the extra bags and puches on the outside.
I own a pair of black Ortlieb Backroller Plus and the bags hold up great and don't discolor in the sun at all. But that might be because of the black color. If I had to buy a new pair and had money to burn I would probably either get the Ortlieb Backroller Plus High-Visibility (reflective thread run through the entire bag. The complete thing looks normal in daylight and just light up under headlights!) or perhaps the QL3 & Tubus minimal. Those bags and racks just look sexy.
I was considering the Suffolk cream coloured ones. I was trying to go more for the non-pocketed Brooks, but Suffolk do seem to solve the shoulder strap issue (I can see they have loops for straps at the top of the bag) and they are rollers, and have the Ortlieb hooking system. I think they were out of stock on the Brooks Website, but I'll look into them. Where is your store, and do you still carry the Suffolk?
11-05-15, 10:02 AM
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Bikes: Brompton M6R Raw, Pashley Roadster Sovereign, ICE Trike with Rohloff (SOLD) - Pacific Coast Highway
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I am as well, but I'll make compromises in certain areas, but ultimately hold out for the best of both.
11-05-15, 10:21 AM
#96
Senior Member
Budget? < $50.00 bucks. My back left one is a 5 gal kitty liter plastic bucket. Bright yellow, waterproof, doubles as a seat off the bike. Aesthetic? Not so much. Got some canvas army navy bags, 3 for $25.00. One for the bar bag, one for the front rack. Got some free Caradice bags on a trash day. They work great.
11-05-15, 11:38 AM
#97
Senior Member
I prefer Ortlieb bags. I also have 2 front Satt?? bags from MEC that are 10 years old. I still use them because they still work.
Budget for panniers is the LEAST of my worries - as compared to long-haul air fares etc... Heck some visas cost more than a single Ortlieb pannier/
Budget for panniers is the LEAST of my worries - as compared to long-haul air fares etc... Heck some visas cost more than a single Ortlieb pannier/
11-05-15, 01:23 PM
#98
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But there are two other points:
1) the tailwind pannier approach maximized rear facing drag so that one got an extra boost from a tailwind (I have heard of those
), which doesn't hurt anything or make you have to be a racer to get the benefit. In fact the slower you are, the better you harvest the wind.2) also, while the tailwind style might not be everyone's cup of tea, it could be made waterproof by Otlieb so a person could have that cake and eat it too; it fits the profile for people who want not overly huge panniers, which is something people say (or I guess they could be made bigger); overall there is virtually no downside to the design, other than eliminating a lot of crap like excess pockets, backpack straps and so forth. It's free, if the market would just demand it. (assuming it works well enough for one to bother, and it has been around about 40 years but who knows...)
One other thing. What would a basically similar to what we use today touring bike look like that was completely adapted to aero technology? The bags are not the only thing out there to modify. Some new stuff is coming down the pike, that will probably skip us, but might be useful. Notably, the prevalence of discs will make low drag carbon wheels much better over time.
Last edited by MassiveD; 11-05-15 at 01:28 PM.
11-05-15, 02:21 PM
#99
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Location: Oregon
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In my experience with front panniers, a quartering headwind seems to produce more air resistance than a straight on headwind. However, I don't have any way to measure this other than the perception I got from riding a lot of miles with front panniers. Overall, I think that front panniers add enough drag that I can feel the difference, especially with any kind of headwind.
11-05-15, 02:38 PM
#100
Senior Member
That is pretty much my take on it, can't give a percentage of anything but I could see one advantage of going really minimalist with packing with small rear panniers and or stuff on a rack--less weight overall and certainly less work with headwinds.
In the end though, I certainly need four panniers for my traditional amount of stuff for camping etc and so just have to live with having to work more in headwinds.
This certainly touches on crank set choices, as a smaller mid ring than a standard 39t road crank clearly makes things easier with headwinds and up hills with four panniers. I see a 36 or 34 as being an ideal mid ring size.
In the end though, I certainly need four panniers for my traditional amount of stuff for camping etc and so just have to live with having to work more in headwinds.
This certainly touches on crank set choices, as a smaller mid ring than a standard 39t road crank clearly makes things easier with headwinds and up hills with four panniers. I see a 36 or 34 as being an ideal mid ring size.