northerntier

I'm trying to nail down the difference, and the website is frustratingly opaque. Those that I've found:

• stock Divide geared slightly lower (17.5" vs 19")
• presumably the Divide takes bigger tires, but it doesn't say how big. The americano tops out at 700x35+fenders. The Divide comes stock w/ 1.9" (48mm) tires, but not fenders.
• geometry is slightly different. The largest divide is a 58, but it has a top tube almost as long as the 62 Americano (58 vs 58.5). Standover height is 83 vs 84 for the 62 Americano.

Does this make the Divide's position more aggressive (stretched out)?

I append geometries below.

Thanks,
North

veganbikes

I am ****e with geometries but I would get in touch with them. Ethan is super helpful and answered all of my questions when purchasing the Cascadia (which I am finishing the wheels on and am getting closer to having it built). Since they work with the bikes all day every day they will be a much better resource unless someone here has both and can do a little better illumination.

Doug64

+1 I'd just give them a call. I'm lucky enough to live 45 minutes from their shop so I can usually stop in when I'm in Eugene.

SparkyGA

The slightly lower gearing is likely to do with the divide taking a 29" style tire vs a 700c/28" tire. I am sure if you wanted that gearing on an Americano Co motion would do that no problem....

I believe the divide takes a 2.1" tire or so Max. Rather small for a bike marketed as a rough roads bike, most of the awesome 29" tires are in 2.25 to 2.5" range

seeker333

If you're going to throw that much cash at a steel bike, take time to consider alternatives, like Rodriguez. Lynskey will build you one in Ti for same or less than a CoMo steel frame. Actually for the price CoMo charges you could look at dozens of custom builders at approximately equal cost.

https://www.rodbikes.com/

https://www.lynskeyperformance.com/store/backroad.html

The Divide takes up to 50mm tires (from Quick Details), which is not really that big a tire for a 29er. It has a higher BB and standover height. Top tube length is longer than comparable Americano size, presumably to lengthen the "front center" for more clearance for the big tires plus space to minimize toe overlap. Yes, you will be more stretched out on the Divide, unless you use a very short stem. The head tube angle is slacker too, again for toe overlap. STA kinda steep for a touring bike. Wheelbase is 6-7cm longer than the Americano, for the tires. Fork axle-to-crown 22mm longer. CoMo had to tweak every angle and length to make big tires fit. Not much choice from stock sizes.

The Americano is a standard geometry 700c touring bike, except for it's unusual 145mm OLD spacing. This permits CoMo to use a DT tandem hub that happens to be unique for a 145 tandem hub in that the L&R flanges are equidistant from hub center, meaning it will build a dishless wheel. This will presumably result in greater rear wheel longevity, which is significant in that rear wheels take a beating in loaded touring scenario. If you get this bike and have a wheel built with the DT540 145mm OLD hub, then buy a couple spare DT540 rear hubs, because no one else makes a hub like this.

A more elegant rear wheel solution is to use a Rohloff Speedhub (also equidistant hub flange locations). Expensive and heavy relative to a 8-9s derailleur drive systems, but has an advantage over CoMo's "145 spacing+DT tandem hub" in that a wheel built around the Speedhub will fit any far-more-common 135mm spaced frame. Rodriguez makes quite a few Rohloff touring/commuting type frames/bikes with 135mm spacing.

Unless you intend to ride a long distance offroad route like the GDMBR, you should probably look closer at the Americano. It comes in more stock sizes than the Divide, so more likely to fit without CoMo's "custom sizing" upcharge. Rodriguez bikes come in even more sizes.

Unless you need more than a 58-60cm frame, 26" wheels (or 650B) are probably better than 700c longevity-wise. Smaller wheels are stronger/longer-lasting with same number of spokes. Bigger wheels don't make your bike faster when it's loaded down and has twice the normal frontal area due to panniers/bags/cargo (terrible aerodynamics/wind drag). In fact, bigger wheels are heavier and more trouble (toe overlap, weird frame tweaks to accommodate larger wheels/tires of dubious value).

700x50 tires are overkill for pavement. You can fit 700x42 tires (with full fenders) on a lowly Surly LHT, which costs $600 less as a Complete Bike than a CoMo frame.

GamblerGORD53

Ask Neil Gunton at CGOAB. He switched to the Divide.

I wouldn't get a stock bike of any sort and Certainly get a Rohloff. They can now have a snap on cog like SA.

fietsbob

Snap ring cog due, You get one already ?. To bad they didn't adopt the SA 3 spline or Shimano's 9 spline.

so you still have to buy a spare cog thru their parts supply chain..

now even the 13t cog will be reversible. good for small wheel builds.




BTW , Co Mo dont like the stock as is? just call, they do Custom too.. what do you want?

MassiveD

Does the divide come with flat bars? That could explain top tube length. Basically more like a classic mountain bike, and the other is more like a road bike. Since you are paying custom prices, can't you just get what you want? If you have to ask questions like this one, it is always best to leave the specifics of frame geometry up to the builder, but stuff like rear wheel spacing, or fender clearance should be something you can work with them on.

I think the 145 hub is a good thing, though the main reason tandems have them is because they allow a drag brake, nothing to do with loading which may or not be heavier on a tandem. I weigh 240 with bags over the rear axle, the rear wheel is talking a heavy beating compared to a tandem where the stoker is often the lighter person while the captain may well be mostly onto the front wheel. If all this stuff mattered that much they wouldn't be building 11 speed wheels.

northerntier

Thanks for the great summary, seeker. I do plan on riding the GDMBR at some point and was hoping to use tires larger than 2". I'll be talking to co-motion later today after I take an Americano for a spin at the LBS.

Among the reasons that I'm leaning towards co-motion are stiff, tandem tubing (I'm a big guy), but still steel, rohloff/gates, and S&S. They guarantee even the Divide will fit into the co-pilot luggage. Though I'm going to ask about tires, now that I think of it. I'm skeptical that they'd go in too.

And I know all about the LHT, I've over 16k miles on mine. It's been a great bike, but I want something a little stronger, w/ the above attributes.

northerntier

Divide has drop bars by default. I'd be getting the rohloff, which still means a dishless wheel. Disk brakes work well as drag brakes IMO.

northerntier

Snap-on cog? Pain in the ass to change the sprocket on my thorn. Also, "SA"?

fietsbob

Snap Ring.. the current replacement is use a tool like a freewheel remover , to hold the Freewheel driver in the hub ,

and a chainwhip to uncrew the Cog .. available next year , 016, the screw on piece (Which an oil seal contacts)

Which is splined , and a cog that interfaces that Spline + a Snap Ring in a groove ..

then the tool to replace a worn cog is a flat bladed screwdriver. all you replace is the cog which is flat.
think 1 cog cassette ..

The spline pattern seems such that You Still have Rohloff as an Exclusive supplier , but over time that may change.

now there are other companies replicating the original screw on cog ,
like Phil Wood (1/8" thick,) and Thorn a 21t , to use a 46t Chainring and still have the low range,
a 3rd one made a Ti Cog.

SA = Sturmey-Archer

Tourist in MSN

I was going to say, do not rule out looking at Thorn Nomad Mk II, other than the belt it would meet your criteria of stiff/steel/Rohloff/S&S. Then I saw this:

Just curious, was that a Nomad or Raven you have? And why are you switching to Co-Motion? I know that the Thorns are 26 inch - the Co-Motions are 29. And the Co-Motion can use a belt instead of chain. Are those the only reasons, or are there other reasons for the switch?

I think the SA mentioned above is Sturmey Archer - their old 3 speeds had a splined cog.

mibike

145mm is the most common size for a tandem. Phil Woods, White Industries, Shimano, etc. has 145mm hubs

mibike

I agree that A 145 hub is a good thing. It's true that most tandem hubs can use ether a drag brake or a disk brake but they also build A dishless wheel which is stronger and most if not all tandem can be had with 40 and 48 spoke drilling for even stronger wheels. The loading is a lot heaver on a tandem rear wheel than on a single. It has most of the stoker weight A good percentage of the captain weight and you normally carry more gear for 2 riders. The captain's seat on my tandem is centered between the front and rear wheel so about 50% of any weight I put on the seat will go to the rear wheel.

northerntier

I have a 5yo Nomad w/ rohloff, not S&S. It's a great bike, I commute on it every day. However, I don't like to tour on it. I kind of feel like I'm riding a tank. I feel I'm slower on the Thorn. I don't think it's the rohloff, I think it's the geometry, very upright.

From what I understand, the Divide is a bit more stretched out than the americano, which I've ridden (derailleur version) and like very much. I'm hopeful that the Divide will be as sweet a ride on pavement as the LHT, as tough as the Thorn, and have a higher gear-head factor than either.

Chris Pringle

+1 on on checking out the offerings from R+E Cycles, especially their UTB touring model. They built my frame Rohloff-ready, although it currently runs on a traditional derailleur drivetrain. I believe it can spec'd to be used up to 26"x2.4" tires w/o fenders. The great thing about the UTB is its versatility, it can be spec'd light enough for long endurance events or built heavy-duty to withstand the Great Divide route or Carretera Austral in the Patagonias in Chile.

I wrote about it here a few years ago, although the pics are gone from the hosting site.

seeker333

You usually have to deflate tires to fit regular 700c touring wheels into an airline std 26"x26"x10" case. You'd probably have to remove tires on a 29er to get it in the case.

This is one reason why many elect to use 26" wheels in a coupled-frame touring bike. Add wider availability of 26" tubes/tire, stronger/longer-lived smaller wheels, and the capability to build bike frames without compromising geometry tweaks (like the Divide) and it just makes life easier to go with 26" wheels.

You perhaps already own the best bike for your stated needs in the Thorn Nomad. Maybe you should reconsider the fact that a bike built like a tank for good reasons necessarily will not handle or feel like a zippy lightweight bike.

Rodriguez makes heavy duty touring bikes which utilize essentially the same frame tubing upgrades as CoMo singles. Rodriguez probably has more Rohloff/S&S/Gates building experience than CoMo.

seeker333

Yes, but they don't have equidistant flange spacing (EFS) in 145 like the DT540...read it again, learn about wheel building, research available hubs. PW makes a good EFS tandem hub...in 160. WI and Shimano do not make EFS tandem hubs in 145. The best option for a CoMo owner is to have spare 540 rear hub in the event the 540 is discontinued, or so that spokes and rims can be reused if the hub is irreparably damaged. In either case, without a spare DT540 the replacement wheel will not be dishless, with high spoke tension on the NDS and DS. Presumably if you pay so much for a CoMo in the first, then this (dishless longer-lived wheels) is a feature you wish to continue beyond the lifespan of a single rear wheel.

fietsbob

The whole Hubshell gets shifted to the right to be under the rim.
but the base width is still relatively Narrow in comparison with Rohloff ,

which only needs room for 1 drive cog not 10 or 11..

northerntier

Re the Rodriguez equivalent. I want: rohloff, gates, S&S, disk brakes (not BB7).

To get rohloff at Rod you have to start w/ the High-Roller Tour at $4800. Adding BB7, a shifter on the handlebars, and the gates drive is another $1000 (and I don't like BB7's, I want something else). Adding in couplers and a carrying case is another $1000. So you are looking at near $7000, vs $8000 for the Co-Motion. However, it's still not perfect: shifter position sucks, BB7's suck, it uses 26" wheels, etc.

Co-Motion is expensive, but you are getting a lot of bike. Rodriguez is nice as well, but not much cheaper. I also like the Salsa Fargo. It's much more affordable, has suspension, bigger tires, but isn't exactly what I want.

mibike

Phil makes a 145 tandem hub with equidistant flange spacing 25mm DS and NDS. DT540 is 24.6mm DS and NDS so not a lot of difference in spacing. I have both hubs and they are both good hubs. I wouldn't worry about having a spare DT hub any more then any other hub. Any part could be discontinued. The weak link of a DT hub is the ratchet so I always carry a spare set of ratchets on a tour if I'm using A DT hub.

Tourist in MSN

Those are good reasons to want to replace the Nomad. My Nomad has S&S. It is built like a tank and quite heavy. But I specifically wanted to build it up with drop bars so I got a size that fits me well with drop bars. I do not know what tires you have, but for just commuting you could put on some supple 1.5 width tires, they might speed it up a little but probably not that much. You are right, the Nomad is not a speed demon.

One thing to ask the Co-Motion people when you talk to them is to ask how well your wheels will fit in an S&S sized case. The 26 inch wheels win in that regard.

I have never ridden a Co-Motion, but I did tour with someone that owned an S&S Americano. He loved it, said it was a very solid bike. And he said it was a very tight fit into the S&S case, the wheels were especially tight fit.

If you are not aware, Rohloff now makes a 36 spoke hub, in addition to the 32. Just mentioning it since I think that change is more recent. I built up my Nomad with 36.

veganbikes

R+E is fine stuff and I wouldn't scoff at anything they make it is for sure quality but the CoMo Divide has a much better build kit for around the same amount (assuming you add disc brakes to the High Roller Tour) I think you are spending more on a the frame with R + E and they skimp on components but the tubing on both is the same and I would guess both are pretty similar in weight and the quality is about the same as well.

Tourist in MSN

Just a side note to all the people commenting on 145mm dropout spacing, the OP has stated he wants a Rohloff. He already has a Rohloff on another bike, so he is familiar with them and understands their cost. I suspect that you will not convince him to get the 145mm spacing because the Rohloff is 135mm.

I am not disagreeing with anyone about the merits of a 145mm hub, just saying that it is unlikely to happen in this situation.