mdilthey

Is it so foreign to you that a lighter bike is more fun to ride? On a trip that consists of 10-14 hours of riding a bike per day, a bike that is more fun to ride sounds like a nice benefit... Low weight centered on a frame handles much better than racks and panniers.

The "large" panniers on these rigs usually hold lofty, yet light items like a sleeping bag, fleece, jacket, etc. i peruse loads of gear lists and pedal wrenches, laptops, 3P tents, frypans, and lanterns don't usually make the cut.

As for my trip two years ago? Best experience of my life, learned a ton. I frequently write about sub-zero camping on my blog, BackpackingLight.com, and ******. Coldest I ever took that 15° sleeping bag was -22°F, but it was definitely not something I recommend unless you dig "Type 2" fun.

At any rate, if you think i'm making it up, and strewing camping gear around the snow for a few pics before retiring to a warm cabin, well, whatever helps you sleep at night! I'm enjoying my version of bike touring, which is not the same as yours, and there's nothing wrong with that.

nun

I don't drink coffee, but I always have teabags for a hot morning drink and I carry a corkscrew too, although I usually put a six pack in my front handlebar bag or just a couple of cams in my saddlebag. I don't find I miss any comforts by going lite, if anything I'm more comfortable.

mdilthey

Thank you for the advice. I weigh risks and rewards whenever I do anything. You're looking at pictures from a trip with nighttime temps above zero, and my camp spot is walking distance (<1 mile) from 30+ houses.

Seeing how minimalist I can go in my backyard informs my decisions outside that relative safety. I will continue to use minimalist bikepacking to give myself the experience and knowledge that can only come from practice, and I will make mistakes, but I don't act recklessly. Inferring that from the size of my bike bags isn't fair.

Maelochs

This is what I meant about "competition." Why can't we just accept that some people like to do things differently?

If some folks like to go out into subzero weather with minimal gear--and do it, and don't require rescue parties, etc.--then power to them.

If some folks like to tour with a credit card and seven support vehicles including a helicopter and a blimp, why not?

Your way is not better than mine is not better than his. You go to do the things You need to do to fulfill what your brain or heart or soul tell you you need---so do I. You Cannot do what I need to do, because it is not what you need. Likewise, I cannot be you and do your things (though I might do My version of your things.)

If you want to camp in the snow naked and you can do it ... power to you. If you refuse to "camp" except in a camper, with AC and TV and all that ... power to you, too. Neither is "better" than the other.

I cannot believe I am saying this or have any reason to say this ... but then, about 90% of the threads I have ever read on any website should have this posted as a disclaimer on top of every page.

Nobody hates ultralight camping any more than anyone hates fully loaded touring or any other kind. if we all stop trying to beat the other guy, no one will hate anything, no one will feel attacked or feel a need to defend ... and we all end up doing whatever we do anyway.

Why is this so difficult?

Happy Feet

I was a bike courier in Calgary during the winter and did -32 a few times. Not hard at all when riding with toque, mittens, layers and boots but it is the time not riding that will get you; it is the standing around and windchill. I have also slept in -42 using a bag, thinsulite overbag and gortex bivy sack. The good news is it will probably not rain

Doable if snow depth does not stop you but not ultralight territory.

DropBarFan

I'm not into UL touring but I see the advantages. A) starting off with a light bike vs heavy touring frame B) less wind-buffeting on mountain descents? I've ridden tours in the mountains where climbs are really tough esp w/heavy weight & then one can't make up time by descending fast since wind gusts push against panniers. Also heavier bike/load means that much more braking effort. Someday we'll see $2K carbon-fiber coupled touring bikes which will blur the line between trad & UL touring.

saddlesores

why? because the title of the thread "Why is ultralight touring so unpopular?" comes
across as trollish and confrontational.

regardless, it's NOT that ultralight is unpopular, it's that (normal!) loaded touring
is MORE popular.

now.......regarding (abnormal) ultralight touring.....what brand of chain lube do you
ultralighters carry, and how much does it weigh?

veganbikes

I mix only the lightest lube with about 74% air (any more and it won't lubricate enough any less and it will so heavy it would crack the frame)


Obviously UL touring is popular within a week we have 7 pages here. If it wasn't popular this thread'd be deader n' doornails!

elcruxio

Wouldn't necessarily say more fun to ride. I actually like the feel of a fully loaded tourer since it behaves a lot like a motorcycle. The very slow steering is something I've grown to appreciate since the stability gives me more opportunities to do stuff on the bike I would otherwise have to stop for, like measure my BG, watch at the scenery (ok, watch scenery better), take photos etc.
No, I don't purposefully load a bike up to get that feel on a casual ride, but nor do I take my MTB on a road ride even though I like MTB'ing. Differences don't always mean better/worse

Well there's your problem right there. That sounds absolutely horrid.

This is again, debatable.

FrenchFit 

When we started mountain hiking/backpacking we were pretty ultralight. Over time we got heavier and heavier, the reason was the boredom, monotony. The packs started to include books, wine, bacon, scotch, cameras, music, games, weapons, a variety of clothing.... We were not on a pilgrimage to nature.

Probably not your problem, but having no creature comforts is simply not for me.

Buffalo Buff

That's a great question. One that you should ask yourself. No one here is competing, we're just discussing our different setups and why we tour the way we do. No one is trying to tell you how to tour, and no one is saying UL touring is the only way. You're the only one seeing this as a competition

Buffalo Buff

One of those 2oz bottles of white lightning they sell at walmart, half full. Not sure what the weight is.....its light enough for me.

andrewclaus

It would be nice if this were true, but I've actually encountered scorn while camping with my UL gear.

Some of the scorn is justifiable. Some beginners try UL methods but lack experience to make it work and end up mooching from those who carry the weight. Appalachian Trail lore is full of hikers complaining about others asking to use their stoves, maps, knives, etc. or asking them to move out of shelters into the rain because they didn't bring a tent. On a crowded trail like that, stories spread and so do biases.

On the other hand, Pacific Crest Trail lore contains stories (i.e., the movie "Wild") of over-packed inexperienced hikers who can't make the long miles between water supplies and need help from lighter, faster hikers. Who is scorned on that trail?

So which way is better?

elcruxio

The thing that really only bugs me about the UL crowd is the use of blanket statements about needs. Like "you don't really need *insert thing*" How do you even define that? How do you know about personal needs. You don't need a bike, yet you use one. You don't need clothes (necessarily), yet you use them. You might not need a knife either, expect when you need to carve a splint for someone (more of a hiking thing that but these things overlap) This maybe a crass example but the statement that something is not needed drives me on the edge pretty darn quick.

Because need is also a lot about self sufficiency. You might think that you don't need extra spokes or a spoke wrench, but when a spoke does go it's much nicer to be able to handle the situation yourself than it is to ask for help. There are limits of course, but a broken spoke or a broken chain or even broken cables or bolts are such small things that anyone should be able to deal with those. Broken bearings are on the limit and even I wouldn't carry an extra BB with me, I might take a small bag of ball bearings and maybe a set of 3 cartridges though (hard to find models).

bmike

Why stop at the splint! I carry a defibrillator with me! I have a carbon fiber model that trickle charges from my dyno hub. I carry it just in case... You never know! I leave the three sets of BB bearings at home though. Have to save weight.

But, seriously, if you aren't content within yourself you will never be happy. Tour with what works for you. If you need to justify your touring setup by suggesting that there is widespread scorn sent your way you either need new friends or a stronger back bone.

Edit:
My EDC kit contains a fiber spoke, spare cables, brake pads, tire boot, etc etc.
No extra chain, but extra links and magic connectors... (Typically I'm on the single speed or the Rohloff)

mdilthey

I agree, and I blame myself for defending. It takes two to tango.

In the end, I use touring to escape the idea that the opinions of others should define how I live my life. I wouldn't be caught wearing wool bike shorts in public if I gave a damn anyways...


It's so funny to me. Just because the ultralight tourer dares to do something a few posters can't fathom doing themselves, we're wrong and should be scolded, deemed irresponsible, ridiculed, etc. This forum defines why ultralight touring is unpopular; because there are some who try and project their fears and their opinions onto others, to the point of public ridicule, because they know "how to tour."

staehpj1

Maybe I have been lucky or maybe oblivious to it, but I have never noticed any scorn about my gear choices from anyone I met while on tour. Similarly I have never observed any scorn the other direction (UL folks toward heavier packers). All of that nonsense seems to be mostly on the forums.

I have had a lot of folks express curiosity about what I was carrying and what I wasn't, but it was always friendly and we usually wound up comparing notes, discussing our personal touring styles, and not judging. No name calling or insults necessary.

I try not to meddle, but I have tried to help when someone inexperienced was having trouble because of what they were or were not carrying. That could go either way, but most often was someone who was way over packed. One case was a young couple on their honeymoon who were clearly miserable. They not only had over 100 pounds of stuff each but didn't have things that they needed to be comfortable. I suggested things they might add and things they could send home. These suggestions were made at their request. Just as an example of what they were carrying... They had one of those really complete bike tool sets intended for a shop. They were carrying the whole set plastic case and all. A pretty good percentage of the tools didn't even fit anything on their bikes and they didn't know how to use most of the tools or even what they were for.

I find that folks who want to reduce their load are more likely to benefit from advice, because not having something you need becomes pretty obvious. no one needs to tell you, if you learn from your mistakes Having extra stuff that you could easily do without less so.

Most of the time those are reasonable suggestions. If you define a need as an absolute necessity, then very little is needed. I know that even if I would use my most pared down list and be under 10 pounds of gear weight I would still have things that I don't absolutely need. The fact that it drives you "over the edge" makes it seem like you are taking reasonable suggestions or opinions way too personally.

The thing is that how well prepared you are has more to do with how well thought out your packing list is more so than how much you carry. It is also more about how well you use what you have.

I find that the act of repeatedly going over the packing list scores or hundreds of times and thinking about gear items before, during, and after a tour tends to make for a really well thought out list. I found that when I toured around a lot of other tourists on routes like the Pacific Coast, I wound up being the guy everyone borrowed stuff from, not the guy who didn't have what he needed, despite the fact that I was carrying less than half as much weight as most of them were and less than 1/4 what a couple of them were.

On the other hand on my first tour (Trans America) I wound up borrowing stuff much more often even though I had packed really heavy and thought I had erred on the everything but the kitchen sink side.

mdilthey

I had a similar experience. On my first tour, I had everything I needed, but my packing situation was inflexible so I (now, infamously) could not carry a can of beans. It didn't fit in my frame pack, handlebar bag, or seat bag and I had to have a buddy carry them. I really kicked myself for that one, and my friends still laugh about it to this day.

Now, I pack much more carefully and I have "backups" planned for un-planned bulky items like the occasional baguette. I'm also touring for two now, since Kelley goes with me every time, so I am much more organized for things like first aid, kitchen supplies, repair tools, etc.

mtn.cyclist

Awesome thread! I just pack what I need and want and don't label it's lightness category. I do use a very lightweight tent, sleeping bag, cooking equipment, etc., but I doubt that I would be considered ultralight. What/where/when influences my packing list. It's not unusual for me to have to carry food and water for more than one day, which is always heavy.

Happy Feet

Yeah, I don't get the scorn thing either. Forums are famous for arguing minutia but IRL most other bikers I meet are friendly. We talk about gear but more in an informational way. Last summer was a perfect example where in a fully loaded heavy steel mtb rider sat with a CF recumbent rider while waiting for a ferry. On the forum that would be worth 10 pages of argument but we just discussed bikes (mostly his). I wound up learning how to mount it so it was a win for me.

mtn.cyclist makes a good point.
Perhaps part of the disconnect is when people describe what they are doing as UL instead of just what they are packing, as if it is something new and improved. I did the whole UL thing 30 years ago when one of my buddies even cut the labels off his clothes for climbing (silly but true). I suppose we are all UL compared to the days of wool blankets and sack cloth coats. On my last trip I didn't even take cast iron cookwear.

Tourist in MSN

I should try mixing more air into my 75W140 synthetic gear lube.

The friend of mine that I usually tour with wanted to go really light when we did the Pacific Coast. New Titanium frame and Carbon fork. New tent that was 2 pounds lighter. His panniers (two) and small drybag on the rack top were stuffed full. My four panniers were full. I brought a Carradice Nelson Longflap saddle bag that was empty other than some innertubes in the two small pockets on it, I planned to use that for my share of the groceries when we shopped. Good thing I brought the saddle bag, my friend had enough room for two cans of soup on his bike and I had to carry the rest of the groceries. When we got home he bought a front rack and two more panniers so he can carry his share of food and cooking gear in the future.

I apologize. I thought you were far from civilization and taking undue risks. I concur, the back yard is the best place to try out new stuff in harsh conditions.

nun

I carry less than many folks, but really just consider what I do as touring. I stay in motels, with warmshowers hosts, in my tent and under city park pavilions. I have a lightweight tent and bag and a minimal cooking set up that is great for tea, soups, stews couscous and boiled eggs. I have two sets of clothes, rain gear and an umbrella. I don't carry stuff that is useless to me and I'm surprised that people need to carry more than 20lbs of gear.

It's not the lightness of the gear you take that really matters, it's all the heavy and unnecessary stuff you leave behind that lightens a load.

nun

Yeah that can be a real pain. I rely on the longflap of my saddlebag to carry bulky items like extra soda or beer. I also have a nylon backpack for very large loads. I have yet to use it on the bike, but have used it off the bike.

arctos

I am coming late to this discussion. I was put off by the seekingly trollish thread title.

My equipment load on the Divide Ride was 18 pounds. It took me 30 years plus of touring to refine my needs to that point. On the ride I rode for five days with a person who read the official guide book and brought everything listed overloading his Bob trailer on his full suspension bike. He cracked a DH rear rim due the weight and his riding style.

He was mystified by how little I carried on my rigid bike. Yet I was warm , dry, fed and hydrated and could ride the steep roads and trails that he walked and pushed. Despite a zero degree F sleeping bag he was cold in it while wearing 400 wt fleece top and bottom in the bag in his tent while i used my down quilt in my 20 oz Tarptent in warm dry bug free comfort.

As we rode and talked i explained how I had incrementally over decades reached this comfort point while shedding unneeded weight without breaking my budget or robbing banks. The next time he had cell service he called his wife to order an inexpensive vbl shirt from Warmlite like the one I had let him try the night before. He was so surprised how much warmer he felt in his bag with this $25 item. He started unloading excess gear at the next post office encountered.

He could afford anything he needed or wanted but was simply ignorant and misinformed about what would work on the Divide Ride. That is not a crime just a condition to overcome with experience and knowledge. Sharing my path was not a demand for him to do as i do but an opportunity to see alternative options that might have use value.

MassiveD

I don't really enjoy instant coffee that much... Since neither wine nor coffee are really all that beneficial, I don't miss them on a tour where I am trying to feed the engine as efficiently as possible. I find I don't have cravings for them, as the initial disruption of the touring lifestyle is enough to reset my preferences.