Why is ultralight touring so unpopular?
11-20-15, 06:41 AM
#376
Senior Member
11-20-15, 07:58 AM
#377
...so that novice tourists can avoid 24 spoke wheels and for not doing something more than posting pictures of his broken spoke when it happened. The number of spokes and type of wheels you use depends on the weight of rider and gear and the terrain to be covered. Twenty four spoke wheels sound appropriate for a fast tour with a light load on paved roads. I like something with more spokes as I weight 195lbs.
11-20-15, 08:25 AM
#378
Bye Bye
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Gone gone gone
Posts: 3,677
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time
in
1 Post
I agree that the ultralight experimentation that you and others on this site have done is an excellent resource for many, including me. My concern is that Chris McCandless' (my hyperbole) don't discern the differences in the touring that you are evangelizing which for the most part are light & fast road trips with the support of motels, restaurants , warm-showers, and urban campgrounds. I find nothing wrong with that style of touring but what does concern me when you continue to show amazement that anyone would want to carry more than 12lbs or use a purpose-built touring bike.
Chris McCandless (Into the Wild) didn't die because he brought the wrong gear or didn't know how to handle himself in the wild. He died because he unknowingly ate a plant with a neurotoxin in it:
How Chris McCandless Died: An Update - The New Yorker
__________________
So long. Been nice knowing you BF.... to all the friends I've made here and in real life... its been great. But this place needs an enema.
So long. Been nice knowing you BF.... to all the friends I've made here and in real life... its been great. But this place needs an enema.
11-20-15, 08:27 AM
#379
Senior Member
The mini Trangia, aka the "backpacker" set, aka Trangia 28, is quite a versatile stove. I've used it a lot over the past few years, and it's probably my favorite stove, esp. when it comes to its small size. No, it's not as hardy in the wind as the Stormcooker sets (either 27 or 25), but it does pretty well with a aluminum windscreen that you can either make or buy. And unlike most of the other integrated small backpacker stove/pot kits, it has a frying pan! So you can make things like eggs and pancakes for breakfast.
That said, currently using an Optimus crux Weekend set because it's more convenient for, um, weekends. Nice to be able to boil water in 3 minutes also. For longer trips alcohol is a better choice AFA ultralight.
Either way, I still maintain that whether or not you want to bring cooking stuff you can still be 'ultralight'. Even a minor decision regarding (for example) what clothing to bring is going to have a bigger impact on weight and bulk than nearly any compact cookset.
11-20-15, 08:39 AM
#380
Chris McCandless (Into the Wild) didn't die because he brought the wrong gear or didn't know how to handle himself in the wild. He died because he unknowingly ate a plant with a neurotoxin in it:
How Chris McCandless Died: An Update - The New Yorker
How Chris McCandless Died: An Update - The New Yorker
Plus I was only using his name as hyperbole. The big dangers in touring are getting killed by a motor-vehicle and this applies to all involved no matter what their equipment weighs.
The reality is that people are going to dislike touring after a single night, below freezing, in a hammock, with a summer-weight bag.
BTW: I have first hand experience with a group of newbie's on the Southern Tier when the temperatures dropped to unseasonably cold levels. Most quit.
Last edited by BigAura; 11-20-15 at 08:51 AM.
11-20-15, 08:50 AM
#381
Bye Bye
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Gone gone gone
Posts: 3,677
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time
in
1 Post
He died from mis-information.
Plus I was only using his name as hyperbole. The big dangers in touring are getting killed by a motor-vehicle and this applies to all involved no matter what equipment.
The reality is that people are going to dislike touring after a single night, below freezing, in a hammock, with a summer-weight bag.
Plus I was only using his name as hyperbole. The big dangers in touring are getting killed by a motor-vehicle and this applies to all involved no matter what equipment.
The reality is that people are going to dislike touring after a single night, below freezing, in a hammock, with a summer-weight bag.
Had McCandless’s guidebook to edible plants warned that Hedysarum alpinum seeds contain a neurotoxin that can cause paralysis, he probably would have walked out of the wild in late August with no more difficulty than when he walked into the wild in April, and would still be alive today. If that were the case, Chris McCandless would now be forty-five years old.
Most here are suggesting to take the lightest gear that makes sense for the terrain, the temperature, and the needs of the trip.
If someone reads this and thinks they can ride to Alaska on a carbon road bike with a summer weight bag a couple of ounces of alcohol and a pop can stove and then summit Denali with trail runners... well, thats not the fault of the folks who are posting here.
__________________
So long. Been nice knowing you BF.... to all the friends I've made here and in real life... its been great. But this place needs an enema.
So long. Been nice knowing you BF.... to all the friends I've made here and in real life... its been great. But this place needs an enema.
11-20-15, 09:33 AM
#382
Firsthand experience: I met a group of three bucket-listers on the Dalton Highway, all riding cross bikes with 28mm tires, and lightly outfitted. They had been flown into Deadhorse, AK, were heading south when I met them (I was heading north). They all were fit cyclists but they were freaking-out at what they had gotten themselves into. I saw true fear in their eyes. They all said that if they survive they would never do anything like that again. I assume they did make to Fairbanks because never heard any bad-news. I also assume they quit adventure-touring forever.
Last edited by BigAura; 11-20-15 at 09:49 AM.
11-20-15, 09:50 AM
#383
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: mars
Posts: 759
Bikes: 2015 synapse
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
I camp at least 95% of the nights I tour. I've never used warmshowers.
I have no idea where you are getting that impression. If you can link me to a post where I said someone was wrong for touring with a heavy load, I'd like to see it.
In the OP I did write about my bike (that others here have repeatedly said is not suitable for touring at all) meeting all my needs for a touring bicycle, but I never said it was the only way to ride.
I also said I don't understand why people would want to carry a heavier load than they need to. Because I don't. But I never said how heavy someone's load should be, because everyone has different needs.
In the OP I did write about my bike (that others here have repeatedly said is not suitable for touring at all) meeting all my needs for a touring bicycle, but I never said it was the only way to ride.
I also said I don't understand why people would want to carry a heavier load than they need to. Because I don't. But I never said how heavy someone's load should be, because everyone has different needs.
11-20-15, 10:01 AM
#384
aka Timi
Normally i make a three sided enclosure with my two panniers and guitar case.... which is why ultralight touring would be unpopular with me!
(just kidding)
11-20-15, 10:35 AM
#385
I camp at least 95% of the nights I tour. I've never used warmshowers.
I have no idea where you are getting that impression. If you can link me to a post where I said someone was wrong for touring with a heavy load, I'd like to see it.
In the OP I did write about my bike (that others here have repeatedly said is not suitable for touring at all) meeting all my needs for a touring bicycle, but I never said it was the only way to ride.
I also said I don't understand why people would want to carry a heavier load than they need to. Because I don't. But I never said how heavy someone's load should be, because everyone has different needs.
I have no idea where you are getting that impression. If you can link me to a post where I said someone was wrong for touring with a heavy load, I'd like to see it.
In the OP I did write about my bike (that others here have repeatedly said is not suitable for touring at all) meeting all my needs for a touring bicycle, but I never said it was the only way to ride.
I also said I don't understand why people would want to carry a heavier load than they need to. Because I don't. But I never said how heavy someone's load should be, because everyone has different needs.
BTW: I'm all-in on carrying as little as necessary --> my touring base-weight 24lbs but when it really matters in backpacking my base is 12.5lbs. I don't consider either to be ultralight or pushing any extremes.
Done: I think I've made my points known.
11-20-15, 01:05 PM
#386
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: mars
Posts: 759
Bikes: 2015 synapse
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Oh. Ok. Next time you quote my posts and make remarks about things I've said I'll keep in mind you're just talking to someone else.
Not to me. From my end I feel like you want to criticize decisions I make but I'm not allowed to reply? W/e, I'm mainly just confused by your posts.
Not to me. From my end I feel like you want to criticize decisions I make but I'm not allowed to reply? W/e, I'm mainly just confused by your posts.
11-20-15, 10:06 PM
#387
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 3,150
Bikes: 2013 Surly Disc Trucker, 2004 Novara Randonee , old fixie , etc
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 671 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 49 Times
in
43 Posts
Agreed, but that's why I like to temper some the exuberance with my own firsthand experience.
Firsthand experience: I met a group of three bucket-listers on the Dalton Highway, all riding cross bikes with 28mm tires, and lightly outfitted. They had been flown into Deadhorse, AK, were heading south when I met them (I was heading north). They all were fit cyclists but they were freaking-out at what they had gotten themselves into. I saw true fear in their eyes. They all said that if they survive they would never do anything like that again. I assume they did make to Fairbanks because never heard any bad-news. I also assume they quit adventure-touring forever.
Firsthand experience: I met a group of three bucket-listers on the Dalton Highway, all riding cross bikes with 28mm tires, and lightly outfitted. They had been flown into Deadhorse, AK, were heading south when I met them (I was heading north). They all were fit cyclists but they were freaking-out at what they had gotten themselves into. I saw true fear in their eyes. They all said that if they survive they would never do anything like that again. I assume they did make to Fairbanks because never heard any bad-news. I also assume they quit adventure-touring forever.
11-21-15, 01:08 AM
#388
Banned.
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 2,077
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 760 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time
in
1 Post
Chris McCandless (Into the Wild) didn't die because he brought the wrong gear or didn't know how to handle himself in the wild. He died because he unknowingly ate a plant with a neurotoxin in it:
How Chris McCandless Died: An Update - The New Yorker
How Chris McCandless Died: An Update - The New Yorker
No !!! He was an idiot, with the wrong equipment and no knowledge. More than 1 person tried to save his life. He refused.
11-21-15, 04:30 PM
#389
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,923
Bikes: Nature Boy 853 Disc, Pugsley SS
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 251 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 8 Times
in
6 Posts
My concern is that Chris McCandless' (my hyperbole) don't discern the differences in the touring that you are evangelizing which for the most part are light & fast road trips with the support of motels, restaurants , warm-showers, and urban campgrounds. I find nothing wrong with that style of touring but what does concern me when you continue to show amazement that anyone would want to carry more than 12lbs or use a purpose-built touring bike.
I don't even use roads half the time anymore.
I camp unsupported, eat primarily from grocery stores and stock up for a day or two at a time, and sleep under the stars in strips of state forest, vacant lots, off the sides of trails, and often in the complete wilderness, far from services or cell reception. And yes, I do continue to advocate 12-25lbs. loadouts, depending on temperature. I think my winter weight including clothes worn and all bikepacking bags is 25lbs, plus the bike and my naked self.
Last edited by mdilthey; 11-21-15 at 04:38 PM.
11-21-15, 04:36 PM
#390
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,923
Bikes: Nature Boy 853 Disc, Pugsley SS
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 251 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 8 Times
in
6 Posts
I wonder how many bike tourists have died from losing control of a heavily loaded bicycle near traffic, or being unable to navigate a pothole in the shoulder because of the weight of their bags. I know I personally would not have crashed so terribly in Colorado if I had balanced my load better, and I have since done so with bikepacking-style bags.
I am keen to advocate ultralight touring because it makes the #1 touring activity— riding the bike —safer and more fun.
I can envision the skeptics touting "I balance my pannier weight just fine etc." and "the bike feels better loaded etc," but in general, a lightweight 45lb touring bike + gear feels just awesome and that's pretty undeniable.
I am keen to advocate ultralight touring because it makes the #1 touring activity— riding the bike —safer and more fun.
I can envision the skeptics touting "I balance my pannier weight just fine etc." and "the bike feels better loaded etc," but in general, a lightweight 45lb touring bike + gear feels just awesome and that's pretty undeniable.
11-21-15, 05:25 PM
#392
Ok, this is my point. My winter weight gear for comfort in the teens(F) is 30lbs + bike + naked self. I'm carrying an extra 5lbs of comfort that includes a safety cushion. And I'd survive a miserable night at -10(F). For most people carrying an extra 5lbs on a tour is no big deal but sleeping in a bag at 20-30 degrees below the rate minimum is.
11-21-15, 05:28 PM
#393
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,923
Bikes: Nature Boy 853 Disc, Pugsley SS
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 251 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 8 Times
in
6 Posts
Ok, this is my point. My winter weight gear for comfort in the teens(F) is 30lbs + bike + naked self. I'm carrying an extra 5lbs of comfort that includes a safety cushion. And I'd survive a miserable night at -10(F). For most people carrying an extra 5lbs on a tour is no big deal but sleeping in a bag at 20-30 degrees below the rate minimum is.
11-21-15, 05:37 PM
#394
don't forget I'll have to fit in this rig:
Comfort: 0°F
Survive: -20°F
I'll post mine
Last edited by BigAura; 11-21-15 at 05:48 PM.
Comfy into the negatives.
11-21-15, 05:44 PM
#396
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,923
Bikes: Nature Boy 853 Disc, Pugsley SS
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 251 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 8 Times
in
6 Posts
Bet yours is bigger:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B3GMnzhurASwbkRJdWtXbF9NRTA/view?usp=sharing
27.07 skin-out weight including all bike bags. Subtract the bike bags and the GPS and light mounted to my handlebars, and I'm at less than 23lbs.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B3GMnzhurASwbkRJdWtXbF9NRTA/view?usp=sharing
27.07 skin-out weight including all bike bags. Subtract the bike bags and the GPS and light mounted to my handlebars, and I'm at less than 23lbs.
Last edited by mdilthey; 11-21-15 at 06:08 PM.
11-21-15, 05:47 PM
#397
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: mars
Posts: 759
Bikes: 2015 synapse
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Bet yours is bigger:
https://lighterpack.com/r/9zpdms
27.07 skin-out weight including all bike bags. Subtract the bike bags and the GPS and light mounted to my handlebars, and I'm at less than 23lbs.
https://lighterpack.com/r/9zpdms
27.07 skin-out weight including all bike bags. Subtract the bike bags and the GPS and light mounted to my handlebars, and I'm at less than 23lbs.
11-21-15, 06:04 PM
#398
11-21-15, 06:04 PM
#399
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,923
Bikes: Nature Boy 853 Disc, Pugsley SS
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 251 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 8 Times
in
6 Posts
EDIT: I saved it as a PDF and hosted it to Google Drive: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B3G...ew?usp=sharing
That link should work without registering. If not, Lighterpack is a site run by one guy in the BackpackingLight community, so I wouldn't worry about loading your email up there. I joined Lighterpack more than a year ago, and haven't received one email from the creator, and I never paid a dime.
As far as BigAura's edit about it fitting into the picture I posted earlier, all my bike bags are linked in the list. The only added capacity is the full-size framebag, up from a half-size, and the two small snack bags on the handlebars, but those just hold food.
That link should work without registering. If not, Lighterpack is a site run by one guy in the BackpackingLight community, so I wouldn't worry about loading your email up there. I joined Lighterpack more than a year ago, and haven't received one email from the creator, and I never paid a dime.
As far as BigAura's edit about it fitting into the picture I posted earlier, all my bike bags are linked in the list. The only added capacity is the full-size framebag, up from a half-size, and the two small snack bags on the handlebars, but those just hold food.
Last edited by mdilthey; 11-21-15 at 06:08 PM.
11-21-15, 06:08 PM
#400
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,923
Bikes: Nature Boy 853 Disc, Pugsley SS
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 251 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 8 Times
in
6 Posts
The formatting is imperfect. Lighterpack's interface is better, and you can see all the links to the products I use and sort them by weight, etc. You can also analyze individual parts of my gear, like the sleep system or cooking gear.