francoisnewtown

Brooks is THE saddle for many bike tourist...

What are the best name (brand, model) for wheels in touring ?

I will probably buy 26 wheels for Surly Disc Trucker. I would like to have dynamo inside the front hub (for lights and usb plug)

Thanks,
François

veganbikes

The best wheels are going to be handbuilt wheels with quality components that are going to meet your needs.

For me on my new touring bike it was Paul Components Disk hubs, Sapim Strong spokes and Polyax nipples and WTB Frequency CX rims. If I was going dynamo I probably would have settled on a SON hub. Of course that is just my build. Maybe it isn't the best, but for me it was pretty close to what I wanted without decimating my entire budget.

Phil Wood also makes great hubs and offers wheel building services as does Peter White (who also sells Dynamos) who has built several tons of wheels over the years.

fietsbob

pragmatic on a tour , in the busy Summer season when you damage the wheels you have (it Happens)

are you willing to stay in some place for almost a week, while a small town Bike shop orders a replacement Rim?

and re-laces it into a new rebuild on your Hub?

if not consider adequate mid line Shimano hubs in say 36 spoke..

then maybe something off the shelf will be in the shop and you can be back on the road in the same day.


LBS on a popular touring Route, here has cut out hubs and boxed them up for mailing home and the rider left

riding on more common spare wheels..

Other than that Best? Rohloff and Schmidt Dyno hub.. Both can be running Discs..

bikemig 

Agree with fietsbob, you don't need to pay a bomb to have first rate wheels to tour on. Handbuilt wheels by a shop you trust is a good choice. There are a number of online stores that can build you a wheelset as well.

Tourist in MSN

Wheels consist of (1) hubs f & r, (2) rims, (3) spokes, (4) nipples, and (5) the labor to build and true them up. (I left out skewers, some would consider them part of the wheels too.)

You said you would like a dynohub for front hub, the current favorite appears to be SON. I however went with SP Dynamo PV-8, have used it for 2.5 years and have been very happy with it. (I am not running discs, their model for discs might be a different model number.) I suspect you would be very happy with either.

I will let everyone else debate the merits of the other components, I am restricting my suggestion to the dynohub.

alan s 

Some people say Rohloff hubs are the best. I've never tried one because they are very expensive, but sure would like to. I recently built up wheels with White Industries CLD hubs, Veolcity Aileron rims, Wheelsmith spokes and brass nipples. They are great wheels. Also, added Shimano Icetech rotors, Stans yellow rim tape, Ultegra cassette and Schwalbe Marathon Supreme tires and whatever-brand tubes. Had some extra skewers lying around. The Velox tape didn't work out very well, so that's in the trash.

LuckySailor

Just recently finished my cross Canada tour. I ran Mavic A719 36 spoke, with a SON28 Dynamo, and Schwalbe Marathon Tour Plus tires. I thought that this was a great setup. I did only have one flat in over 6,000 touring and training miles. BUT here is the downside. HEAVY. Front wheel weighs 5.5 pounds. Dynamo, if being used for charging by USB is slow, and requires prolonged speeds of a minimum of 12 mph. On long uphills, you will not be charging. On the downside, the cache battery will have to charge first, then it will switch over to charge via USB. If you're in a hilly region, it will not reliably charge your devices. Better to have another source for charging-my choices from personal experience are, the Goal Zero lantern. You'll need a light in your tent, this is LED and has a hi and low setting plus a USB port to charge your devices, several times before needing to be charged itself. I also have a Cobra JumPack 7500 mAh battery. It is only maybe 10% larger than an iPhone 5S, and it only weighs 10 oz. Will charge your devices a number of times before needing to be recharged itself. It also has a little flashlight on it. And it will jump your dead car battery. I tested this when I returned off tour, my car battery was dead. One turn of the key, 2 seconds, started. Amazing. I got this towards the end of my tour, so I don't know how many times it will charge an iPhone before a recharge of the battery.
Also, and I don't know if this is your situation, but, I found it a PITA to unplug my iPhone every time I wanted to take a picture, and then plug it back in after I was done. In fact, I took less pictures than I would have liked to because of it. And finally, I ran Cyclemeter, and have a WaHoo RFLKT computer, I needed to be plugged in all the time, all day. Even when I left camp with a full charge, I would loose 10-20% charge per hour if I wasn't plugged in. I was also using my phone for tunes a lot of hours, and for most of the trip, had an external can speaker which was awesome. So there was a constant draw on the phone slowing the charge rate. Sorry so long, hope you find this helpful.

Tourist in MSN

I am surprised you found the hub to add noticeable drag. (I assume you mean by "slow" that it slowed you down, not that it was slow to charge.) My SP PV-8 adds no noticeable drag when I am rolling, I can't tell if my light is on or off from how the bike rolls. And I think the SP and your SON have comparable drag.

This link has some good data on drag on several different hubs.

https://www.ctc.org.uk/file/public/fe...ub-dynamos.pdf

LuckySailor

Not sure why you understood that I meant that it caused drag. Not true at all. No noticeable drag. The dynamo generates only 3 watts. The Luxos U headlight, and the tail light take some of that energy, The balance can go to charge a device. In my mind, and I might be wrong, but I thought 1/2 watt was for charging if the headlight and tail light are being used. So there is the slow that I am speaking of. Obviously, in order to create energy to charge, you need to be rolling (speed) and that from my personal experience, that minimum is 12 mph for many minutes, to get 1%. So as an example, 60 minutes may net 4%. But in order to get that 4%, you would have had to maintain no less than 12 mph for 60 minutes. NOT average speed, maintained speed. Hopefully that is more clear.

John

https://www.ctc.org.uk/file/public/fe...ub-dynamos.pdf[/QUOTE]

mrv 

Anyone familiar with Taylor Wheels? https://www.taylor-wheels.com/

I was / am interested in this wheelset: DYNO, 8spd IGH. Probably $450 shipped. (I have no idea if these are the best)

veganbikes

Never heard of them and from what I saw on their website nothing about being handbuilt and the pictures at the bottom make it look like a machine builder which isn't worth it.

Go down to your local QBP dealer (most bike shops if not all will have an account there) ask them to get some custom wheels built up, they aren't going to be the absolute best but they are a big step up from machine built wheels. They have IGHs and Dynos or if you have your own stuff you can send it to them for like 5-10 bucks extra fee. You could also see if your LBS builds wheels or you can order a nicer quality set from the likes of Peter White who is an expert in wheelbuilding and extremely knowledgeable about Dyno systems and for a while was a source for odd parts you cannot easily find in 'merica.

DropBarFan

Interesting comments esp in re difficulty charging devices thru hub dyno. Takes a bit of the attraction away from dynos. Was thinking about a dyno but don't do that much night riding; small AA emergency light is OK if reg rechargeable light runs out. Wow, 5.5 pounds for a wheel, makes one think!

Squeezebox

To me one of those big hunko extra batteries makes sense to me.

Tourist in MSN

I misunderstood your use of the word slow. People talk about tires being slow, meaning high rolling resistance. So, I assumed you used the word slow the same way, high rolling resistance. My error. I did not realize you meant slow to charge devices.

I do not have the Luxos U, instead use a AXA Luxx 70 Plus. So, I can't really say how your light is supposed to work, I can only comment on mine.

My light will either be on with no extra power to the USB charger or the light will be off and then the USB charger is available. With my light, the taillight wiring only has power when the headlight is also on. I use a battery powered taillight instead of a taillight wired to my dynamo because I want to be able to use my taillight when I am using my USB charger which only works with the headlight off.

Quite simply, the primary reason I bought my dynohub was for USB charging, lighting from the hub is much lower on my priority list since I rarely tour in the dark. I often use taillights in the daytime while touring, but I get close to a week out of a pair of AAA batteries, so I am content to use battery power for taillight.

My USB charger is rated for half an amp (500 milliamps). I have measured occasional spikes of current flow up to a bit over 600 milliamps, but overall my USB charger will not charge some of the higher amperage devices like some of the apple products or tablets at the rate that they were designed to be charged. USB voltage is officially 5 volts but there is some drift, I think my USB port puts out about 4.75 to 5 volts. If it was consistently 5 volts at 500 milliamps, that calculates to 2.5 watts, which is slightly less than the hub is rated for. Some of the power is lost in the charging circuitry, so I can't get too upset about only getting 2.5 watts out of my USB charger.

If you can get your USB charger to provide power while you also get light out of your Luxos U, I am surprised as I did not think they had that capability. I thought you either got USB power or light, but not both.

SineWave makes a USB charger called the Revolution, they advertise that it will provide power at the USB port when a separate headlight is on, but I think they do not advertise that you will get much power out of the USB port when your lights are on. I considered buying it and using a separate light, but eventually decided to just get a light that has a USB port built in. And the light/USB charger I got cost less than the cost of the Revolution.

Revolution FAQ - Sinewave Cycles

fietsbob

FWIW, want a Schmidt SON in a built wheel? Peter White Cycles , in NH, Is the North American Importer of the Hubs,
and Hand builds wheels.. There.

Tourist in MSN

My SP Dynamo PV-8 dynohub weighs (according to manufacturer, I did not weigh it) 390 grams without skewer. Other brands and models of course will weigh more or less.

My other touring bikes that lack the dynohub have XT M760 or M752 or M770 front hubs. Those weigh about 150 grams without skewer.

So, putting a dynohub on a bike instead of a normal hub increases weight by roughly 250 grams, then maybe add an ounce of wire and zip ties to hold it in place. So, adding the dynohub adds roughly 10 ounces to the weight of the bike.

Then the question becomes how much more do you want to carry, a USB charger, a light, dynamo powered tail light, Li Ion battery packs, USB powered Li Ion chargers, USB powered AA chargers, etc. And do you subtract the weight of the battery powered lights that you no longer would carry? I usually carried a lot of rechargeable AA batteries that I won't have to carry in the future, I might actually carry less weight with the dynohub than I carried without - plus I will be more self sufficient. Each rider will have different electrical needs. After searching out places to charge up batteries on my last tour, I think the dynohub is going to be really nice to have.

I also can get a good amount of current flowing into a battery at speeds of about 8 or 9 mph, not 12 mph. So, I find performance not that bad, but I have my light off for charging.

My sources of weights (the second I found with a google search):
SP 8 series dynamo hub
Weight Weenies - Hubs

DropBarFan

Reassuring that added dyno weight is not that bad. I'm now reading that battery packs don't have terribly impressive capacity, ie wouldn't last for avg week tour w/moderate light/device use. So if a tour includes significant night riding dyno seems the sensible choice.

robert schlatte

[QUOTE=Tourist in MSN;18335436]

I do not have the Luxos U, instead use a AXA Luxx 70 Plus. So, I can't really say how your light is supposed to work, I can only comment on mine.


I have the same light. Recharging USB devices is also my primary interest. My experience has been a little disappointing. Prior to the AXA light I had a device from a company called Light Charge. As an example, I would ride, say 6 hours maintaining at least 12mph with an external battery plugged into the charger. At the end of the ride the battery would not appear to have any additional charging whatsoever, at least, judging from the bars on the battery. I bought the AXA light hoping for improved performance. I used it once with the same battery and once again no noticeable recharging. From the light display on the battery, it is appearing to charge but once again at the end of the ride there additional bar be lit up. I have a normal cell phone ie not a smart phone which I will try but I am not too hopeful. Any advice would be helpful.

Tourist in MSN

I found my AXA Luxx 70 Plus to deliver about 500 milliamps out of the USB port with occasional higher spikes. A few years ago, that was good enough. But now some battery packs and other devices are capable of taking much more current than that, so those devices will likely charge much slower than you want. And some people have found that some Apple products do not play well with dynohub powered chargers, thus they can only charge them from a separate battery.

It would be nice if the USB ports delivered over an amp, but at normal riding speeds the hub won't put out enough wattage for that, so I think you are unlikely to find anything that will do much better than what you have. Such devices that demand those higher outputs are likely to only work on household electrical supplies.

I was frustrated with the high cost of USB chargers that work on dynohubs so I tried to make one. I had several that appeared to work pretty well until I would go downhill at high speed and blow out my circuits from overvoltage. That was when I gave up and decided to just buy the light/charger combination. But when I was soldering up circuits in my failed attempt to make a charger, I was never getting any more power out of them than the AXA light. The hub and not the circuitry is the limiting factor.

I think part of the problem is that electronic manufacturers are making more USB powered devices that want to draw higher and higher currents, and people are finding that the dynohubs are not keeping up. Since most dynohub manufacturers are making hubs to meet a German lighting standard, I suspect most hub manufacturers are not going to start making higher output hubs anytime soon.

I know a guy that bike tours in the desert and he will pull a trailer, has a dynohub on his bike front wheel and another on the trailer. That way he can get double the wattage. But, touring in the desert, he never goes very fast so that limits his power output.

robert schlatte

Thanks for your response. So, I guess since the hub is the limiting factor, the best way to go is to charge USB devices that do not require high electrical current like my external battery pack? Maybe a dumb question, but what type of devices do not demand high electrical outputs? Maybe my simple cell phone will charge okay. What about a little headlamp for night time reading? I appreciate your information.

jfowler85

Whatever is appropriate for the load, tensioned properly.

MassiveD

The comparable quality and reputation components in wheels are Phill Wood hubs, wheelsmith spokes, and Velocity rims or Mavic rims. Or SON for dynamos.

There really aren't comparable categories though as the Brooks saddles are genuinely popular while the components listed above generally launch discussions of cheaper components.

Rohloff isn't really a top quality component either. The gears are assumed to be the highest quality but the hub shells cable attachments and shifters all needed upgrading

Tourist in MSN

I have a couple of AA battery chargers that draw from a USB port. (My GPS runs on AA batteries, I use rechargeables.) Those AA chargers draw at up to maybe 300 to 350 milliamps. I put both on the USB charger with a splitter cable so I can charge four at a time, they will draw more power than the hub supplies, but they will charge, just a bit slower. My smartphone when the battery is really low needs about 600milliamps, but when it is close to fully charged it only needs about 250 milliamps. So, it works fine too. My headlamp (for my head) uses four AAA batteries, I have a cheap little charger that will charge two of them in maybe four hours at about 300 milliamps, so that will work too.

For you, plan B might be to just leave your big battery on the USB port so whenever you are rolling, you charge that battery. Then when not rolling, charge your other devices from that battery. And find out later if it was enough.

My last tour, I did not bring my dynohub wheel, my dynohub is on a 26 inch wheel and I used a 700c bike. I was really wishing I brought a 26 inch bike with dynohub after about 3 weeks of touring and searching for restaurant seating near outlets at lunch time, etc.

Tourist in MSN

Everytime I comment on how much power I get out of a USB port, I get the feeling that nobody else is measuring current flow out of a USB port. Or measuring how much power their devices draw. Am I the only one that is actually measuring how much power I get out of a USB port that is supplied by a dynohub?

I got the meter below on Ebay, shipped from China. Measures voltage and amperage that your device is drawing from a USB port. They also come in blue, the blue ones are impossible to see in sunlight or even on a cloudy day. The one in the photo is clear plastic housing, a bit easier to read on a cloudy day but still not great. It was maybe $2 or $3.



The one below measures milliamps that pass to your device, but not voltage. But amperage is the important measurement, you do not really need voltage. It has a LCD, not an LED, much easier to read in bright light but the numbers are much smaller so I need to wear my reading glasses to read it. I put some adhesive backed velcro on it so I can stick it somewhere where I can glance down and see it while riding. This way I can see at anytime how much power I am getting into my USB powered devices or batteries. I also have a plug adapter in the photo. This one I also got on Ebay, shipped from China, cost maybe $5 or $6 but I think worth the extra cost so you can see it in the sunlight.



They also work on other power supplies, such as on your computer USB port.

mrv 

just a quick comment: Power (in Watts) is Voltage (... in volts) multiplied by Current (in Amps). Shorthand: P = V * I (this applies in the DC (direct current) world, not the AC world... which is like a whole imaginary planet involving triangles and reactant and things that only stuck on my brain long enough to pass the tests).

So voltage does matter! But what I THINK you mean is you're not over loading your dyno with Christmas lights, a laptop, a cell phone, and a toaster, so the voltage out of your DYNO is steady at 3V or 6V or whatever it is. And you're seeing current go up and down as you add/subtract loads, so that's why you said voltage doesn't matter. Mater. Whatever, i wasn't and English Major either.

Anyway! I think that's my two cents for this thread about touring wheelsets that has turned into a DYNO hub thread.

Back to the OP: I like SHIMNO hubs and MAVIC rims. I'm anxious to try the VELOCITY USA Cliff Hangers Maybe build them myself with DEORE hubs 32/36, 26in rims for my TourHopper. At the moment I'm not planning on a DYNO hub. My only multi-day tour I carried a 10Ah battery to charge stuff at night. I plugged in what I could, when I could to charge up everything. As mentioned above, I didn't ride at night. But in the rain I'd run lights.

Cheers!