Ty0604

Lone Star: Is this near Lone Star Geyser? Couldn't seem to find it on any of the maps. Where would I get a permit at in May and how soon before do I need one? If you can provide a better location that would be ideal.

Flagg Ranch: It's about 25 miles N of Moran. It's $35 which is outrageously expensive as you said. I could do it for one night though.

Which would be better?

A: West Yellowstone ----> Madison (14.3 miles) ----> Moran (82.8 miles)
B: West Yellowstone ----> Flagg Ranch (89.3) ----> Moran (25.3)

Either way I'm going to have a long day and going to Flagg Ranch adds miles to it. I realized this after mapping them both.

Ty0604

Bridge Bay sounds great being in the middle. I'm staying with a friend in West Yellowstone so I think I'll stay with him for a few days if I get into town early and head there the 20th.

Google maps say it's 80 miles from West Yellowstone to Bridge Bay (79.6) and 63.4 from Bridge Bay to Moran. Could you have misquoted the first mileage?

staehpj1

Yeah, not far from Old Faithful (maybe 6 miles?) Or at least Google maps calls it 191.
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Gr...95fd540a280e44

jamawani 

West Yellowstone to Madison - 14 miles
Madison to Norris Jct. - 14 miles
Norris Jct to Canyon - 11 miles
Canyon to Fishing Bridge - 16 miles
Fishing Bridge to Bridge Bay - 5 miles

60 miles total.
(58 miles on RidewithGPS)

Ty0604

Got it, thank you. When I map it on Google it tells me 79.6 so that's what I put in my itinerary. I'd rather put 80 and have it only be 60

Thanks for clarifying.

Ty0604

I was told there was a paved bike trail from Old Faithful to Morning Glory Pool. By the ranger I spoke to at least....

Ty0604

Can't find the post you replied to that I got in my email. Maybe you deleted it?

Anyway, I spoke with a ranger and then was transferred to the park super (Dan Wenk) who confirmed what the ranger told me: I could cycle through the park anytime after April 11. Yes, I was clear on my route and he knew I was a through cyclist. In order to do this though I had to make Moran in one day from West Yellowstone. Wouldn't be allowed to "legally" camp he told me but that if "nobody knows you're there no one can say anything." Did he take pity on me because I'm riding across the USA to raise money for cancer awareness? Maybe.

As for maps: I know maps well and can read them well. I refer to it as 191 only because it's what it's labeled as so not sure what else to call it. I didn't look at any maps before replying on here and therefore my question about C in the above post

jamawani 

Park Roads - Yellowstone National Park (U.S. National Park Service)

Spring Bicycling - Yellowstone National Park (U.S. National Park Service)

Craig Pass is closed until May 13.
Occasionally, the South Entrance Road opens before the listed date, but it hasn't for 20 years to my knowledge.
There are two management issues - safety of road crews plowing and wildlife protection.
Bears, especially, are coming out of hibernation and need limited human interference.
In the past 30 years, access to West Thumb and Grant Village has been scaled back considerably in the spring.
That's also why campgrounds open later than you might expect.

National Parks have thousands of fund-raisers using their facilities each year.
I cannot imagine anyone permitting random camping in Yellowstone - esp. in May with wildlife issues.
Given the number of rescues that my park service friends have to deal with - it's hard to believe.
Esp. coming from the park superintendent.

Maybe he didn't hear you right. Maybe you didn't hear them right. And you don't have experience with the park.
I have 30 years experience in the park and they are VERY reluctant to permit any deviation from park regulations.
Yes, if no one sees you, then no problem. But if they do, they may be required to fine you. Big.

<<<>>>

Through routes from West Yellowstone to the South Entrance will not open until May 13.
If weather is bad, they may close again - more likely for Craig Pass route, less likely for Canyon route.
To ride before May 13 would require a signed permit from the highest level.

Same goes for camping. Bridge Bay opens May 20; Canyon - May 27; Grant - June 19.
If you arrive early, they will not let you in - you would be camping illegally.
You could try to crash with employees in employee housing, but this can get the employee fired.

There are 3 million annual visitors to Yellowstone - most in the period June 15 to Sept 15.
There are tiny windows of mixed weather to do all preparations before and after - about a month on either end.
Late openings and early closures are to do general maintenance, road work, repairs, etc.

Again, given these parameters, you may have misunderstood humor for permission.
I would urge you to be certain - certain meaning a permit -
To do anything that was outside of regulations.

jamawani 

In the 1990s, I used to cycle along Yellowstone Lake after plowing but well before the roads opened.
It was incredible - I would often see no other human being all day - despite what they say about park vehicles.
I had the entire park - or at least the lake shore - to myself.

This is no longer possible since the lake shore area has been designated prime grizzly habitat in spring.

corrado33

Even if there is, it'll be clogged with far too many tourists to be bike-able. I do remember a paved path there, but again, lots of people.

Ty0604

Not if I'm there before the roads open to traffic

jamawani 

I have contacted Yellowstone National Park and the official there stated that the above material is utterly false.
There is near-zero possibility that Superintendent, Dan Wenk would have either addressed this personally or given such authorization.
This is a serious offense against website rules and may have legal implications, as well.

Ty0604

Show me your proof of your contact with Yellowstone National Park. I've attached proof in the form of my email from Mr. Wenk. I'm not sure what official you spoke with but if it was anyone other than Mr. Wenk the point is moot since the email is from Mr. Wenk. He's not the first person I spoke with at Yellowstone either. I've been exchanging emails with them since September and heard from Mr. Wenk in November after going up the ladder. I also have voicemails from several officials there.

I've been given special permission from several places around the country to do stuff they normally don't allow such as cycling on certain roads, camping in city parks etc. If one person says "no" I just go up the ladder until the highest person up says "no." At which case I switch my route. However this only happened a few times.

I'm working in partnership with one of the leading cancer research centers in the country and most places, including Yellowstone, have been more than willing to accommodate me since I am not your normal XC cyclist. Accommodating me is good publicity for them and not is bad publicity.

Sorry you're upset (or jealous?) that I went through the ranks to get special permission to pass through Yellowstone but I have proof and that's all I need.

jamawani 

Not jealousy, but pity.

markjenn

You're way out of line. Let the guy take his bike ride without your petty interference.

- Mark

Miele Man

There is no human alive including Usian Bolt, who can out run a Grizzly bear! Bolt can hit 27mph but a Grizzle can set a pace of 30mph even when it's not being crowded/pushed.

Yellowstone National Park (Nature Notes)

Cheers

Ty0604

Oh I'm aware of that. I wasn't suggesting I could outrun a bear by any means lol That's crazy. When my sisters were on tour with me I would always tell them that I didn't have to outrun the bear, I only had to outrun them I've seen one bear in my four tours. A black bear halfway up a tree in Washington. The way she was squealing I'm pretty sure she had cubs nearby so we didn't stick around.

Ty0604

Thanks Mark. It blows my mind what upsets people these days.

Appreciate your support.

jamawani 

Mark -

I live in Wyoming and have assisted many cyclists who, for whatever reason - usually lack of info and overconfidence, rode in spring or fall conditions that are not like anything that they were used to in Atlanta or Sacramento. Furthermore, this person proposed activities in Yellowstone N.P. which are illegal and are obviously so to anyone with experience with the park. I have spoken at length with park rangers on this subject. They have assured me that - not only is the idea preposterous, but that the superintendent would not involve himself with this.

In the case of Yellowstone spring riding, it is a rare and unique privilege to ride in an empty park. If it is abused, then cycling in the park before cars are allowed will be terminated. There is a reason that national parks are skeptical at times about cyclists. Their primary responsibility is to protect the resource, not to make sure that cyclists get to do whatever they want to. Many parks have instituted hiker/biker campsites. Grand Teton N.P has an incredible, paved bike trail. Grand Canyon N.P. allows cyclists on roads closed to autos. But this will come to a screeching halt if the privileges are abused.

J

P.S. Would you like to see the letter where Pres. Obama appointed me U.S. Ambassador to South Slobovia. It's on White House letterhead with Obama's signature?

Miele Man

Reading jamawani's posts it sounds as if he's quite knowledgable about Yellowstone and what's required to pass through/camp there and when. It also sounds as if he's trying to WARN the OP that the OP's plans are a hazard to the OP and jamawani gave the reasons for that. In my opinion, ANYONE such as the OP who thinks he can outrun an adult Grizzly bear is woefully misinformed/ignorant of the real risks they pose to anyone afoot in the spring when those bears are just out of hibernation. Jamawani even state that the bears just being out of hibernation is one of the reasons the park is closed at that time to visitors. I believe the 'pity' pcomment was because jamawani opities the OP if things turn out to be bad.

FWIW, in the past I've advised people NOT to partake of a certain activity at a certain time due to the far higher risks at that time. in some cases i got to attend the funerals of a few whom Lady luck abandoned to Mr. Murphy when those people i'd advised chose not to follow my advice - advice i might add that was gained over many years of experience and an intimate knowledge of the conditions/risks at various times of the year.

Why do some people ask for advice yet ignore good advice from people who live near the place rhe person plans to go to?

Cheers

bikemig 

+ 1. The OP has a long thread where he talked about what he wanted to take on this trip but rejected the idea that he might need a patch kit on a long trip like this. Flats may get to him before the bears and the bad weather . . . .

Here's the thread where the OP rejects the idea of bringing a patch kit; it's a classic, https://www.bikeforums.net/touring/10...-thoughts.html

Miele Man

You clearly stated, "Not too worried about the snow or bears. I run for a living so I'm in good shape."

That implies that you think that you can outrun or maybe outrun a GRIZZLY bear in Yellowstone NP. We're discussing/warning about GRIZZLY bears just out of hibernation not a black bear. A GRIZZLY can run down a horse. GRIZZLIES in Yellowstone have been observed running at 30 mph! That's not even a flat out run for them.

Some of us are concerned that you simply don't appreciate the immense speed an adult GRIZZLY can get to and i might add maintain. Those 30 mph speeds I mentioned and linked to, well those GRIZZLIES maintained those speeds for MILES!

I hope you have a safe and enjoyable ride/tour. However, ignoring good advice from people in the know can lead to extreme hardship or even death. That's why it was advised that you not make that ride the way you planned to when you posted.

Cheers

jamawani 

Yes, you are right. And the internet has made the problem worse. With extreme sports and extreme TV shows, people without any of the requisite skills or preparation think they can do it, too - - and do it in national parks. For many years I have had friends in the park service and forest service. National park rangers have an especially difficult job with the millions of tourists that flock to places like Yellowstone every year. This past year there were multiple buffalo gorings despite every effort to warn tourists. An experienced hiker was killed by a grizzly. There have been multiple maulings in the past few years. I have seen children climb protective fences at the brink of Lower Falls while their parents are 5 feet away, blissfully unaware. 15 or so years ago a family tried to sue the NPS after their son died when he fell into the canyon durin a winter snowmobile trip. And, yes, park staff tends to err on the side of caution.

I have a friend who is a ranger at the bottom of the Grand Canyon. She took a few years off because of the number of emergencies she has had to deal with - most of which were completely avoidable. I have seen a woman heading down the Bright Angel Trail in high-heeled shoes. I saw a middle-aged man and his son arrive at Phantom Ranch in the middle of a 105-degree afternoon. The man was in bad shape. He was airlifted out, but died.

This is one reason why national parks have regulations. Not to mention to protect the park resources - plants and animals. Tourists still pick the wildflowers, feed the chipmunks, chase after bears on the roadside. There is a reason why the park closes critical habitat during spring feeding and fall rut. It is unfortunate that some cyclists here think that their personal desires trump the core purposes of our national parks.

Ty0604

That was a bad transition on my part. As someone who studied communication in college I'm a bit embarrassed by that. The "I run for a living so I'm in good shape" was in reference to me being able to bike a long distance over steep terrain in one day, not to the bears. I apologize for not transitioning into that statement better and see now where it sounds like I'm referring to outrunning bears.

I'm very aware of the dangers of the bears and be as cautious as humanly possible. Every ranger I spoke with warned me about them. Originally I wasn't going to carry bear spray but after having conversations with them I made the purchase.

jamawani 

It is my sincere hope that flats get him long before he reaches Yellowstone.