hilltowner

The winter cycling forum has plenty of advice for clothing but not much for overnighting at below freezing temperatures. The touring forum uses the winter months for the cycling equivalent of baseball's "hot stove league." I'm not particularly seeking advice. I'm a four-season climber who lives in the northeast and have overnighted at temps as low as -40. I've been a four-season bike commuter who has a pair of studded tires. I've done long tours but only in the warmer months. I've decided to take my touring to the next level and combine all these prior experiences.

Is there a small but dedicated cadre of like-minded souls out there? That's all for now.

fietsbob

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sP8KiXxgEMQ

iohan.gue

Look up ShaneCycles.com - Cycling | Hiking | Gear | Blogging at home and away.....
He's done some crazy rides in northern quebec and has excellent write ups of cycling in very cold weather (below -40)

Ive done a little cold cycling but not colder than -30ish

hilltowner

Thanks.

alan s 

I camped out in the low 30s last fall, and I must say its not for me. If it had been raining, I would have bailed. Only thing nice is no bugs and no one else around. Not my idea of fun to lie around in a down cocoon for hours on end.

mdilthey

Love winter touring. Regular users are probably tired of some of these pics....



One of my favorite setups. Two panniers, some framebags, super stable and perfect for civilized touring in the Northeast winter.



Getting wider now... This was last weekend, temps in the 20's, very comfortable. Believe it or not, slighty more range in this setup because of greater water storage...




The new bike, a Surly Pugsley. The perfect winter touring bike. Just finishing this one.... I have a framebag custom on order with Nick Smolinske at Rogue Panda, a roll-top zipperless one for easy mitten packing. The panniers will add all the capacity I need for extended winter touring, and the big tires... well, they speak for themselves (if I can get those dang 45NRTH Husker Du's to seat...)

Winter touring. The few, the brave, the foolish!

Lightingguy

This was an interesting trip

The Dempster Delights | Cycling Dutch Girl

staehpj1

I did the Southern Tier in winter, but that far south the daytime highs were generally pleasant. Still, I did have quite a few nights with frost and one that got down to at least 18 F. I have also had frost on a few spring and summer tours. That said I really don't winter tour much and when I do I am likely to stay in the South.

Tourist in MSN

Have a great time. Watch the forecast closely, since fresh snow could really slow you down.

I call cycling quits when it gets colder than about 15 or 20 degrees (F, above), if I do not enjoy something, I stop doing it.

I have ski camped and snowshoe camped down to minus 36 degrees (F), did not enjoy that either.

jrickards

The ShaneCycles guy and Cycling Dutch Girl are pretty extreme, I've also seen a video on YT of a fellow (with a eastern European accent, although he's from Toronto) cycling through Alaska and the Yukon too. IMO, self-sustained touring in these conditions is too much effort and risky.

MaxTheCyclist has it right in going out in moderate conditions, not long distances and with relatively easy access to help if necessary. The TDA (Tour d'Afrique) bike tour company (the name has changed but I'm not sure what it is right now) is putting together a "Last Degree" tour from 89°S to 90°S (South Pole) and while the conditions could be as challenging as some that Shane and the Dutch girl had encountered, the Last Degree tour is supported (I'm pretty sure) and most certainly, traveling as a group.

As much as I too would like to tour northern areas such as Alaska or Yukon to the Arctic Ocean or northern Norway/Sweden/Finland, I wouldn't want to do it in the winter, just in the summer.

Oh yes, I read a book a couple of years ago, Cycling Home from Siberia, that was very enjoyable where the first part is in Siberia in the cold of winter (but again, not alone, with a friend who had ridden it before).

ironwood

I finished a tour across N. America in November in 1980. It was cold and dry in Eastern Oregon, and I went across the Cascades in a snowstorm; one of the craziest things I've done on a bike, but it was no problem. But that was then. I wouldn't set out in Winter. One reason is the lack of light. Another is that a lot of drivers cannot drive in snow. Another is I hate salt.

In my opinion Winter is for skiing and snowshoing.

Leebo

So, touring just roads or bikepacking off road?

bikenh

I have thought about it the past two years. I've been doing year round biking up here in NH for the past several years now and in the past I have did overnight hikes on the AT with temps down in the teens. I've been threatening to put the two together. I think my biggest problem is knowing they is guaranteed a sure fire way not to get hooked on something...don't do it the first time. I know I would get hooked if I did it. Right now the weather up here in NH this winter has been sweet other than maybe 2-3 weeks earlier this month. The entire past week would have been sweet to be out. Actually last Friday I was going to go for a 215 miler, one day/night ride. The weather forecast made it sound like it was going to be the perfect timing for going for a full moon overnight and I had a dang good reason for going to the sweetest place of them all around New England to do the ride...the Kanc. I knew I had a reason I could easily get myself talked into for going up to the Kanc and since the event didn't begin until 6PM and would last about 1.5 hours that would make for a perfect night ride home on the Kanc. Unfortunately the clouds moved in and I dropped the plans with only a 115 mile ride that made it a decent chunk of the way up to Kanc. At the same time I knew that ride could be the start of going for the overnighters.

If you got the equipment go for it. I just need to go out and confirm sleeping bag rating in the backyard again to be fully prepared for doing a trip myself. I just know not to get hooked...and I will.

MassiveD

I prefer to do cross country touring in the winter, the ski kind, unfortunately for me I wreaked a leg and have not been out in a long while. I don't really find the thought of bike touring on salt covered roads with no shoulder all that appealing. Winter camping is great, the only serious downside being how long the nights are, about twice as long as I need. Some kind of camping between huts as is available in various places is probably a more pleasant experience, but I doubt I would find that affordable.

Up here people tour in the winter on snowmobiles. I have never been on one, but there are trail systems several thousand KM long, that would be the realistic winter option. As they say:

That’s because this English-speaking Canadian province is almost twice as large as Texas and criss-crossed with almost 40,000 kilometres (26,000 miles) of topnotch snowmobile trails. In fact, Ontario’s snowmobile trails rank as the world’s longest recreational trail system, with more total distance than its miles of highways!

Or you can take pictures of your Pugsley (got to admit those things are special) in a 1/4" of snow.

hilltowner

My plans are not too ambitious. Start from home. Ride to one of our state forests that provide winter cabin rentals. Spend one night. Ride home. Probably would cost about $60 for the cabin (and some firewood for the stove). I'm used to winter road widths, having commuted regularly through all months of the year for while. I've got the clothing thing figured out down to the mid-teens, at least for commuting distances. I have learned that pacing is going to be more important in the winter than during the warmer months. Grinding out a hill, fully loaded in the summer can work up a pretty good sweat. No problem if you can cool as well as dry yourself off on the way down the other side. Not such a good plan in below freezing weather. Better to gear down, spinning instead of mashing the pedals, keep the heart rate lower and get to the top as dry as possible. Ergo slower overall speed. Shorter daily distances, etc. I'm sure there is a learning curve. I'll keep track and share my results if anyone is interested.

Happy Feet

My experience has been that the riding itself is not as difficult as keeping warm in between and when it is done. You can get pretty tired riding (and dehydrated as your lungs try to humidify dry winter air) but you won't feel it that much until you stop. Then it can be hard to regulate body temperature through a long winter night if camping out of doors. Even on a day trip I take my puffy polyester parka (compressed) in case I have to stop and fix a flat or something. And the nights can be long and cold which puts you in a fairly fatigued position the next day. I also dive all winter and it's pretty much the same thing - anyone can do it once a day but doing repetitive dives/days gets draining pretty quickly. It's all about the recovery plan at the end of the day.

Hill, you are correct about not working up a sweat but it is pretty hard to do. I find you have to keep ahead of the curve and ventilate at the start of exertion. If you start venting when you feel warm you are already going to sweat some.

bikenh

Slower overall speed comes from force thanks to higher air density, lack of leaves on the trees to hold the wind back, colder bearing grease, etc. You will always ride slower during the winter months thanks to all the factors that go together to make it so much harder to go fast during the winter months, aka why you get worse gas mileage during the winter months compared to the summer months...same thing.

Hill, around this part of the country your biggest thing when temps are under the freezing mark is to remember its not about staying warm, rather about staying dry. Keep the clothing off and you will stay warm by staying dry. I've ridden 75 miles today thus far and I'm bone dry. All I have on is a long sleeve cotton t-shirt and an uninsulated wind jacket. That's all I typically have until the temp drops down into the low teens or the winds really kick up. I'm wearing cycling short and uninsulated wind pants. In the drier air we have up here in central and northern New England, you included, there isn't much in the way of humidity that comes into a factor toward getting you wet. Instead the wetness comes from sweat. To keep the sweat from forming you have to keep your body temperature just below the sweat point. You don't do that by keeping the pace slower, you do that instead by not dressing like someone going out to go alpine skiing. Look at how the guys dress for x-country skiing. Dress the same way. I'm not talking your casual xc skier but your competitive racers. Look at they dress for a comp. Dress the same way. The biggest thing you have to do is add the wind layer to keep the wind off. I can stop for 15-20 minutes easily on a cloudy day, outside, and still be warm when I go to start back up. I'm dry, the body heat isn't getting sucked out of me by the sweat. The clothing is still insulating me...even though it is junk clothing that I wouldn't use in a more humid winter environment.

Don't strive for less power output, instead strive for smarter ways of dressing so you can still staying warm, err dry, while still putting out the same effort. It's totally doable.

Above freezing it gets a bit more difficult. The warmer the air the more humidity it holds...than you can find yourself fighting the humidity rather than the sweat.

Someone else pointed out about the trouble of having of the long nights. That's easy to take care of by not planning to get to the campsite so darn early. Either use the lighting equipment and ride into the night or find yourself someplace you can stop and hop online. I do that all the time during the the summer months. I never have to worry about having long nights at a campsite because I don't get to the campsite until 11:30-midnight at the earliest. I would do things the same way during the winter months. The only real thing I would probably have to change...thanks for making me think about it ahead of time, is where I camp at. I would want to have someplace that is at least 20 minutes ride from where I stop for the evening so I can get the body heat kicked in before I get to the campsite. That would required a major shift from the way I'm used to doing things during the summer months.

Definitely an interesting discussion here. Giving me a few things to think about for, hopefully not, future reference.

Tourist in MSN

Sounds like you have it figured out.

Cabin really makes it a lot easier, especially if it has a light switch. If no cabin, out in the dark cold, trying to melt snow for water for a one pot meal, trying to keep your stove out of the wind, it can get chilly when you are not moving much - and boring - and you start to ask what on earth you are doing out there. Then you look at your watch thinking it is bed time and it is only 7:30 pm. But, with a cabin it sounds like it is simply a longer than average commute with an unusually heavy bike, could be quite pleasant. Even if it is wood heat, that is better heat than a tent with no heat.

My problem in winter for riding is that my body core is sweating, simultaneous with numb toes from cold, one minute my fingers are freezing and the next minute my fingers are sweating. I bring thin gloves for when I want to lose excess heat, mittens for when I need to conserve heat, and waterproof ski gloves for in between. Plus sometimes I shed a jacket part way thru the ride.

If it is warm enough for puddles to form, try to stay dry.

A thermos of luke warm coffee (cool enough to guzzle, but still warm, could be pretty nice if you start getting dehydrated on the ride, but for the trip out you might want to make that decaf, save the caffeinated variety for the ride home. I used to have coco in the evenings for cold weather camping until I realized how much caffeine there is in it, since then I have switched to decaf tea for evening liquids in cold weather camping.

And have a great time.

hilltowner

Heading out on my first experimental overnight. Nothing too ambitious: 25 miles to a state forest with cabin rentals. Temps pretty mild (40s) as has been the winter so far. No typical snowbanks. Forecast for tomorrow in the 20s with light snow in the a.m. Sounds perfect. I'll let you know how it goes.

bikenh

Sounds like too much clothing on. MY hands are cold at times when I first start out but after 10-20 minutes, depending on how cold out it is my hands warm up and stay warm the rest of the day. I use ragg wool pop top mittens...ONLY. I will put recycled shopping bags over the mittens if the temps dip below 10F or the wind is really howling or precip is falling. Anything else I have tried has been useless for keeping the hands warm. I read the idea several years ago here on the forum and decided to give it a try and have used ragg wool pop top mittens ever since. Everything else pales in comparison to keeping the hands warm. I can ride in subzero temps and the hands stay warm once the body has warmed up. I don't ever have sweaty hands. Gloves serve one purpose...cold hands. Keep the fingers together and keep the wool on if you want the hands to remain dry and warm.

As for the feet my feet do get cold at times. I only wear Merino wool socks, year round, and nothing else but booties over top the shoes. I generally just tough it out and when I get the chance and get inside I walk around enough to get the feet warmed back up a bit. The real key secret to keeping warmer feet to start with is to make sure you don't cinch the shoes all the way down like you would during the summer months. If you tighten the shoes all the way down you will cut off the circulation to the feet and that will rapidly cause the feet to turn cold.

Generally below freezing I don't sweat much at all. Below freezing is the nicest time of the year to ride. Just learn to dress appropriately. Up in your neck of the woods you are dealing with much colder temps normally than I would have here in NH. Be willing to play around with the clothing and see how low you can go and still be comfortable. I didn't say warm. I said comfortable. Ask yourself the question, if the conditions don't change can I continue to ride like this the rest of the day. Keep taking the clothing off with each passing day and continue to run the same test. Let yourself body heat get kicked(generally 10-20 minutes after you have left home) and then ride another 10-20 minutes before asking yourself the question. If you start off warm, you are overdressed. The clothing isn't suppose to keep you warm, the biking/body heat is supposed to keep you warm.

I will fess as the temps get down into the teens the skin temperature on my stomach is generally cold enough to chill a 6 pack on my abs. Inside the body temp is fine but the skin temp underneath the clothing is cold. I can hop off the bike and walk inside a store for 5 minutes and the skin temp returns to normal. I don't worry about that and just keep riding. By not overheating I don't sweat and by not sweating my clothes always keep me warm.

hilltowner

I got a chance to experience a pretty good range of conditions. The ride in was more springlike temperature-wise, without any snowbanks or road shoulder streams, but when I got to the last five miles of road it was definitely like riding in early-season mud. Not so bad I was wallowing, but tires did slip a little. Wouldn't have wanted any softer conditions or I would have been walking. The cabin was a good idea for my first experiment with this idea. It had a small stove and was able to dry out some of the damp things. On that list was a pair of old rag wool socks that I had pulled on over the toes of my shoes. They did the trick in keeping my feet warm but got a bit wet when I put my feet down.
Woke up to a few inches of new snow. I went out different way to the north because it was all paved road that way. It was a good decision. The very short section of mud that I did need to ride on was even more slippery with the coating of new snow. I got a late enough start so the plows had been out on the big east/west highway to the north. This turned out to be the easiest riding. Temps were in the 20s so I was wearing wind layers and shoe covers. Except for an extra long downhill stretch I was comfortable and probably could have shed a layer at the very end of the ride for the long climb just before home. The big adjustment was in living with a much slower pace than on summer rides. With all the extra clothing layers, my mid-winter fitness level, studded tires and what all there probably weren't many times when I was riding at a summer rate of speed. All was good however. Here are some pics.

Happy Feet

Great report. Congrats on getting out and doing it!

at_hiker59

Keep the pictures coming!