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  1. #1
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    Koga Randonneur Drop Bar Conversion

    Hello everybody, I bought a second hand Koga Miyata Randonneur, not sure about the year the seller didn't know(If you could tell me I would love to know), and I would like to replace the butterfly bars by Drop Bars and modify a few more things, but I'm kinda new to all this so I would like some advice.

    This is the bike:

    https://photos.google.com/share/AF1Q...Q0bnpsNGpfZHFn

    It has a Rear Derailleur DEORE XT, the front Der. is LX together with the brakes, shifters. The back casette is an HG51-8an , 8 speeds, and this is where my first problem arises.

    This is what I intended to purchase to modify it, please correct me if something is wrong or what I'm missing:

    - Nitto Noodle M177 , 44cm
    - Tektro RL520 Brake Lever
    - Shimano Dura Ace SL-BS77 Bar End Shifting Levers 2/3x9
    - A stem, but here I'm totally lost, I don't know what should I get.

    Now, the problem is that the bike comes with an 8-gear casette and the shifter is for 9-speeds, I tried finding an 8 gear shifter, but they become much more expensive than the BS77, which costs 60€ in bike24.net . My question is, will I be able to shift the back gears with indexing mode? If not, could I replace the 8-speed casette with a 9-speed one? And in this case, which would be an adecuate one, for long-distance touring allowing me to climb hills heavily loaded?

    Should I change the Front derailleur, LX to a better one? Or will LX be allright?

    My second concern is what to do with the stem, I want a budget option, that is compatible with the Koga Randonneur and the Nitto Noodle bar and that allows me to play a bit with its height , it will be my first time with Drop Bars.

    My last, not so important question, I have a Brooks B17, dark brown saddle. Which bar tape would be the closest in color match?

    Thanks for reading and sorry for the amount of questions =)

  2. #2
    Senior Member bikemig's Avatar
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    Easiest is to go 9 in the back to match the bar end shifters you are buying.

    Insofar as gearing is concerned, what are your gears up front? You will want to run some numbers through a gear calc but basically 32 or 34 in the back will be fine for touring (assuming your chain rings up front are not too large).

    The nitto noodle is probably a 26.0 bar right? You'll need to keep that in mind when sourcing a stem. Also is your headset a one inch or an inch and an 1/8?

    I'd keep the existing derailleurs.
    Last edited by bikemig; 02-02-16 at 04:59 PM.

  3. #3
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    I actually don't know the numbers of the front gears. The bike will arrive tomorrow.

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    Also, is there any problem changing the back casette to 9 in the back? Any incompatibilities?

  5. #5
    Senior Member bikemig's Avatar
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    no, shouldn't be shimano 8,9 and 10 can all be run on the same hubs. The only really difference is the shifter which you are buying.

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    Ok, I actually don't know what the headset size is... I hope tomorrow the bike arrives and I will take it to a small shop to ask all this questions, mostly what size are the Front Gears, and the headset size. I was asking in this forum too becasue I'm a Spanish living in germany with very basic-limited german knowledge, and in the bike shops that I know they are not very friendly to non-german speakers. (they can't or don't want to speak in english)

    About the casette, I'm checking these:

    Cassettes of Shimano Parts, SRAM, Wolf Tooth, Gates Carbon Drive, White Industries, e*thirteen, KCNC, Hope, absoluteBLACK, Pop Products, DICTA, DMR, Rohloff, Surly, Odyssey, Spank, Sixpack, Problem Solvers, Brave, Tune, Procraft, NC-17, Chris King, B

    I would like to pick something good but in budget, as I'm already spending much in the change to drop bars. I'm not sure if I'm forced to pick the Deore XT casette because of having a Deore XT derailleur...

  7. #7
    Senior Member bikemig's Avatar
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    Siempre se puede preguntar en espanol,

    No you can run any shimano 9 or any shimano compatible cassettes.

    You can count the number of teeth to get the chainrings and then run the gears through a gear calc like this,

    http://www.sheldonbrown.com/gears/

    Bottom line is that this is touring bike so the existing gear is likely to be good. You can simply use a similar set up in going from 8 to 9.

  8. #8
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    Ok, I got the bike today morning.

    My crankset is 42-34-24 in the front, the Front Derailleur is Deore LX m737 , and the rear hub is called Shimano Deore XT FH-M737 with a HG51-8an casette. I still don't know the measurement of the headset.

    Can I install 9 speed casettes in this hub?

    If so, I'm thinking in installing Shimano CS-HG400-9 , with 11-32 or 11-34 ? or even 12 -36??? But I'm not sure either if they are too big for the hub that I have.

    Would 24-34 be enough for heavy loaded hill climbing?

    Oh and the rear derailleur is a Shimano Deore XT(probably m737 too¿) , and it says Integrated 8 SIS.

    It seems as if the bike components are 10 years old? Thats what I got from googling a bit, I'm starting to worry that I will have to replace the derailleurs too. Will the dura-ace bar end shifter work with this old XT derailleur¿?
    Last edited by hayraddin; 02-03-16 at 09:52 AM.

  9. #9
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    You have a number of options. If you go to 9spd you will need to replace the chain, shifter, the rear derailleur and rear cassette. This should allow you to go just about any 9 speed setup you prefer.

    You could also stick with the 8spd you have now. If you go this route your best option is likely going to be the Microshift SL-T08 thumb shifters. They are a Index/Friction shifter and should work with the existing gear you have now. The tradeoff is they are not bar ends and you would need to slide them up your drop bars into position where you want them. You are going to need to do this with the brakes your using. Assuming your using the ones you have which is indicated by your not looking at new/replacements.

    microSHIFT -The best control system They are distributed by QBP. Any LBS you walk into that has any items hanging for sale on the wall is almost guaranteed to have a QBP account and could order them for you.


    I believe you can also find a conversion for the MicroShifts to convert them to bar ends. I have seen it before, I just don't know where.

    Have you thought about using your current shifters? You could slide them up your drops. You will need to pry the clamp open with a screw driver to get it large enough to slide around the bends of the bars but it can be done. I have done it in the past when I would use the Scott ATB bars.

  10. #10
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    What about these ones?

    Shimano Ultegra 6480 8sp Bar End Shifter Set | Chain Reaction Cycles

    Shimano ultegra 6380 3x8, could they work?

    I would prefer bar ends shifters to keep my handlebars as clean as possible.

    I did not understand the brakes part, my plan is to buy the new brake levers(compatible with v-brakes) but to maintain my Shimano V-brakes(they don't look too bad, they are LX series).
    I think all my XT and LX is vintage series , I don't know if the quality of new pieces is much improved over them.

    edit:

    I also found this comment from an user in Amazon? about the 3x9 Dura-ace bar end shifters, claiming that he used them with 3x8 with indexing mode:

    http://www.amazon.com/Shimano-SL-BS7.../dp/B000F5HXFA

    "I've had these shifters since October. They have worked perfectly in 3x9, 2x9, 2x7, 2x8, and 3x8 configurations, in both indexed and friction shifting modes (be sure to set your limit screws). Currently they're being used with an 8 of 9 on 7 custom cassette (13-32, eight speeds on a 7 speed hub using 9 speed spacers) and a triple chainring. Still no issues with indexed shifting.

    I use friction shifting whenever I'm going in hilly areas as I find it more consistent and responsive in making large shifts. i use indexed shifting more when I'm on flat areas to work out exactly where I want to be on my gear sequence. Switching from indexed to friction shifting takes only a half turn of the screw on the right shifter - no tools required.

    I can't recommend these shifters enough. If you're considering them, buy them."



    Does that mean that if I limit the derailleur with the screw, I could make it work? having an extra tick in the indexed shifter not being used?
    Last edited by hayraddin; 02-03-16 at 11:08 AM.

  11. #11
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    I prefer 8 speed myself, but if you want to go with 9 then get the 9 speed cassette and a new nine speed chain.

    I did a google search, found several people have 8 speed bar end shifters for sale but I am in USA. I assume you are in continental Europe. Google shimano bs64 bar end shifter and maybe something will come up for you. Or, if getting them from the UK is not a problem, looks like SJS has them.
    Shimano Ultegra SL-6480 8 Spd Bar End Shifters - £49.99

    Stem - it might take a while to find exactly what stem length you need unless you already have another bike that you can measure from. If you get a stem consider the merits of buying an adjustable stem. Use that for a while until you can get everything adjusted just right. Then you can measure from that and buy the exact fixed stem you need.

    If your rear derailleur is original to the bike, you can probably estimate age by finding the exact model number on it. It looks like an M739 or M737 or something from that era.
    VeloBase.com - Component: Shimano RD-M739 SGS, Deore XT

  12. #12
    Senior Member mstateglfr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hayraddin View Post
    What about these ones?

    Shimano Ultegra 6480 8sp Bar End Shifter Set | Chain Reaction Cycles

    Shimano ultegra 6380 3x8, could they work?

    I would prefer bar ends shifters to keep my handlebars as clean as possible.

    I did not understand the brakes part, my plan is to buy the new brake levers(compatible with v-brakes) but to maintain my Shimano V-brakes(they don't look too bad, they are LX series).
    I think all my XT and LX is vintage series , I don't know if the quality of new pieces is much improved over them.

    edit:

    I also found this comment from an user in Amazon? about the 3x9 Dura-ace bar end shifters, claiming that he used them with 3x8 with indexing mode:

    Robot Check

    "I've had these shifters since October. They have worked perfectly in 3x9, 2x9, 2x7, 2x8, and 3x8 configurations, in both indexed and friction shifting modes (be sure to set your limit screws). Currently they're being used with an 8 of 9 on 7 custom cassette (13-32, eight speeds on a 7 speed hub using 9 speed spacers) and a triple chainring. Still no issues with indexed shifting.

    I use friction shifting whenever I'm going in hilly areas as I find it more consistent and responsive in making large shifts. i use indexed shifting more when I'm on flat areas to work out exactly where I want to be on my gear sequence. Switching from indexed to friction shifting takes only a half turn of the screw on the right shifter - no tools required.

    I can't recommend these shifters enough. If you're considering them, buy them."



    Does that mean that if I limit the derailleur with the screw, I could make it work? having an extra tick in the indexed shifter not being used?

    Just pick up some 6480 8 speed bar end shifters. they will have new cables and housing included and will shift your current setup without other changes. Then get some basic aero brake levers from Tektro or Cane Creek(the same thing as the Tektro, just 2x the cost) and call it good.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by hayraddin View Post
    What about these ones?

    Shimano Ultegra 6480 8sp Bar End Shifter Set | Chain Reaction Cycles

    Shimano ultegra 6380 3x8, could they work?



    Does that mean that if I limit the derailleur with the screw, I could make it work? having an extra tick in the indexed shifter not being used?
    It looks like these will work. I think you found your answer.

    Disregard what I said about the brake levers. I didn't notice you planned to buy new levers.

  14. #14
    Senior Member bikemig's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hayraddin View Post
    Ok, I got the bike today morning.

    My crankset is 42-34-24 in the front, the Front Derailleur is Deore LX m737 , and the rear hub is called Shimano Deore XT FH-M737 with a HG51-8an casette. I still don't know the measurement of the headset.

    Can I install 9 speed casettes in this hub?

    If so, I'm thinking in installing Shimano CS-HG400-9 , with 11-32 or 11-34 ? or even 12 -36??? But I'm not sure either if they are too big for the hub that I have.

    Would 24-34 be enough for heavy loaded hill climbing?

    Oh and the rear derailleur is a Shimano Deore XT(probably m737 too¿) , and it says Integrated 8 SIS.

    It seems as if the bike components are 10 years old? Thats what I got from googling a bit, I'm starting to worry that I will have to replace the derailleurs too. Will the dura-ace bar end shifter work with this old XT derailleur¿?
    No you do not need to replace the RD; it will work with 9; 24 running on a 32 is fine for loaded touring, it's probably what I would use. You could go a bit bigger but you'll have to think about the capacity of the RD to handle the chain. It can handle 32 teeth in the back.

    Yes you can install a 9 speed cassette on this hub. You can try the existing chain and see what happens before you decide to change it out.

  15. #15
    coprolite fietsbob's Avatar
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    I like the Butterfly Trekking Bars that are on it in the pictures, I bought them extra, in 08, they're no longer offered.

    ride it a while before you crack open the Wallet, for More spending, to make it over ..


    "Speeds" is the klicks in the Lever and it matches the number and spacing of the cogs on the cassette .

    The RD just does what the lever tells it to.

    There is an 8 speed bar end shifter set too, Shimano calls it 'Ultegra' , But quality wise its the same ,
    just has the klicks Spaced to match the 8 speed cassette types.

    Shimano Bar end shifters have the "speeds" on the right , left is friction
    so will work with that FD and crank or anything else You want to put on instead.

    Then You need a Long cable Pull brake lever Tektro and Cane Creek make those.

    You Pick the stem to put the handlebar reach where Its Best ,for You..

    Nitto Technomic is Popular , they start at a 6cm extension and go longer than That,
    The quill end is tall ..
    Last edited by fietsbob; 02-03-16 at 01:09 PM.

  16. #16
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    Thanks for the help guys, I bought all the componentes already. Waiting for them to come. I didnt purchase the stem tho, I will ask for one in the local bike store so that I don't **** it up with the measures of it.

    I will post a picture of the finished result once I do everything. I found out the date of my Koga Randonneur I think, from the serial number that includes a Y on it , it's supposed to be from 1996. It's older than I thought but I hope its not a problem =)

    Planning to do a trip from Leipzig - Germany until Tatra mountains in Poland, going through Elbe river until prague and then czetch republic -> slovakia - > Zakopane
    It will be my first time climbing mountains that tall, the highest I've done is hills in south Germany.

  17. #17
    Senior Member mstateglfr's Avatar
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    All my bikes are 3 to 16 years older than your Koga. It isnt too old and shouldnt be a problem.
    A bike's age is a far distant second in importance to care and maintenace.

    Sounds like an incredible adventure, take pics and post something here about the trip when you have time!

  18. #18
    Senior Member gregjones's Avatar
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    Congrats on deciding on a set-up and ordering the components. That's probably one of the most stressful parts of touring!!

    If you ended up with Shimano barcons don't worry about the number of gears......in friction mode they will work through the whole spectrum. I've ran both 8 & 9 speed, in friction mode, with a 10sp cassette. No problem.

    You just have to give it a shot....its a 20 second swap on Shimano's to change between indexed and friction. In my fooling around with stuff I've found that I prefer friction (right now anyway). No problems with new cable stretch. In fact, right now I have a 9sp cassette and 9sp shifters---in friction mode.
    Current Bike Stages--Click PR Logo
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  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by hayraddin View Post
    ... I found out the date of my Koga Randonneur I think, from the serial number that includes a Y on it , it's supposed to be from 1996. It's older than I thought but I hope its not a problem =)
    ...
    I assumed it was from mid 90s from the rear derailleur. Nothing wrong with that age. If it was much older, it would have narrower rear dropouts that makes fitting a modern rear wheel harder, so it is new enough that it is easy to get good parts for it.

    I occasionally get out my 1961 bike, put a couple hundred miles on it last year, but that bike has a lot of 1980s parts and a few modern ones too. Age is not a problem unless it makes it hard to maintain and upgrade.

    One last suggestion, when you put your bars and brake levers on it, ride it a few times without handlebar tape first. That way you can decide if you have your brake levers installed exactly where you want them on the bars before you put the tape on. And a couple weeks after you put the brake levers on, tighten them again. The plastic body on the brake levers deforms slightly at first, thus you need to tighten them again later.

    I have no idea if that saddle is going to be what you want for long days in the saddle, but you have time to think about what you might want.

  20. #20
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    Thanks for the advice about the brakes, I didnt think about that I will definitely do that.

    About the saddle, I toured last time with the Brooks, it already is shaped in to me and it is very comfortable =)

  21. #21
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    Ok the conversion is done =) It looks gorgeus now , thanks for everything guys. I post some pictures, for now just unloaded and in my flat. Tomorrow is the first ride of the year, training for the upcoming tour.

    20160212_004613.jpg
    20160212_004700.jpg
    20160212_004833.jpg

  22. #22
    Senior Member mstateglfr's Avatar
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    Looks solid

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by hayraddin View Post
    Ok, I actually don't know what the headset size is... I hope tomorrow the bike arrives and I will take it to a small shop to ask all this questions, mostly what size are the Front Gears, and the headset size. I was asking in this forum too becasue I'm a Spanish living in germany with very basic-limited german knowledge, and in the bike shops that I know they are not very friendly to non-german speakers. (they can't or don't want to speak in english)
    Once drove to Munich Olympic Velodrome & there was a beautiful race-type bike shop. Owner & assistant could tell I was just a Yanqui tourist & wouldn't speak to me at all whether German or English.

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