rawklobster

In regards to showers, I think it would be quite manageable. I'm only speaking from my experience, but generally, I think Hiker/Bikers timing of washroom use is opposite to those staying by car, and for longer periods. I think showers amongst bikers is more often in the afternoon/evening when they arrive, and brushing teeth before most people are up, hitting the road early. I, for one, never showered in the morning. Perhaps this isn't the case for all, though, so I can't say for sure the facilities wouldn't be taxed. But even when I've car camped for many days, the times I would shower and brush my teeth were similar to when I was biking, and I found I had the place mostly to myself, or at least, not at capacity where people were waiting.

I would like to encourage more visibility and promotion on websites to reflect hiker/biker sites that do exist. Seems like word of mouth/blogs can help, but it would be nice to google "Province name - Hiker-biker - Parks" and have an area of the parks website speak to the availability of hiker biker sites. If they are difficult to find, and planning is hard, it's not exactly gong to promote their efforts as much as it could.

I think grocery stores, restaurants and variety stores would benefit greatly. Bikers would likely stop at most of them, particularly when they are far and few between. Washroom breaks, water, food, human interaction... All things bikers need and crave. I wonder what the percentage of cars that drive by a given establishment, versus bikers. I know in cities where bike paths are put in, even at the cost of lost parking, businesses have seen a rise in purchasing. I personally splurge on restaurants because of the low cost of bike touring. So there you have it. The truth! I want to pay less on camp fees so I can eat a Lobster dinner every night!!! *smile*

rawklobster

Gotcha! Luckily I'll likely be past Germany by mid-July when I go. probably still noisy, but once I fall asleep, I'm usually good. And I do long hauls, so exhaustion usually wins over auditory ruckusness. *smile* And if it wins, I'd probably just raise the white flag and go out to join them, if I really couldn't sleep. *grin*

And I love squat toilets. It's the more natural way to do thing when nature calls.

rawklobster

I agree with all these points. I guess for me it still comes down to accommodating bikers, particularly if it's not attractive. It's still a point against luring a potential tourer (and yeah, I get that in many places it might still only be in the single digits per season) but the land is vast. I do have some utopian-like ideas which are not feasible, but a guy can dream. I'm sure those attracted to the area where it's far and few between will only attract seasoned bike tourists. But it would be nice if, for those few folks, a little patch of nothing would be available to them in those large parks, instead of treating them like a family's RV.

Machka 

Bring earplugs.

Drunken noise going on till 4 am practically at your elbow can be rather disruptive even to deep sleepers ... especially if you need your sleep for the next day's riding.

And the ones in Europe are different from Asian ones. Same basic idea, I guess, just a different way of doing it.

Oh, and most places will frown on flushing anything other than toilet paper. Including those baby wipes.

rawklobster

I'm happy to throw the baby wipes in the garbage is that's the case. Short of that, I could just borrow some.

I definitely keep earplugs handy. Alternative is to sleep upon arrival during the early evening, and then party at midnight until 4am, then get a few more hours before heading off. Not much bothers me while on vacation. It's all part of the experience, so if they give me drunk partying, I'll embrace drunk partying! I know I'm quiet as a mouse in hostels, careful not to make a sound, while others simply do not have this courtesy. But, thats what we sometimes have to live with to save a bit of money and travel a different way.

adventurepdx

To clarify:

• Cape Meares does not have camping. If you stayed at a state park north of Cape Lookout, it might be Nehalem Bay. Note that there are a few other, non-state campgrounds in between the two.
• Fairholme is in Olympic National Park, so it's not a Washington State Park. So different policies than the state park.

You are welcome. It is indeed a bit confusing.

adventurepdx

Indeed! Basically a hiker/biker camp can be set up in an unused area of the campground, an area not being used for anything else, and a spot that would be difficult to make a "car camping" spot. And this way a campground can make extra revenue in an otherwise underutilized spot.

djb

I would imagine that in general, bike tourists tend to come in at the end of the afternoon, shower, setup tent, eat and then sleep. Not the crowd that makes a ruckus and or sets picnic benches on fire in a drunken state--in other words, for a campground, I think its fair to say that we are low maintenance. Sure this is a generalization, but something to consider as a selling point in trying to promote simple areas for hiker bikers for a park to setup.

I do recall that there is a stay limit in some hiker biker sites, am I wrong remembering this? This makes sense to discourage itinerant folks setting up home.

rawklobster

You are correct!!! Nehalem Bay! My friends who met me in Tillamook ended up driving me the last leg, even though I rode from the cheese factory place to the blimp hanger on my own, and had rode for about 3 or 4 hours before getting to Tillamook. They weren't too happy, saying I had to ride in, but they let it slide, as I was apologetic and told them I hadn't known, but that I had traveled quite a bit by bike!

rawklobster

Agreed... That's all I'm hoping for. If I do go to some of these places, perhaps I'll bring it up with the rangers directly. So far, email hasn't provided me with any hope in certain parks. Even if I don't get to enjoy it, perhaps I can stoke a spark.

rawklobster

I don't recall any limits, but I imagine. I did meet a homeless guy in at a site. Ray ended up letting me stay on his site. An excerpt...

When I woke up, Ray was already making coffee. As I packed, we talked about our hike rides. He had been camping in Oceano for a week or so. He told me about a place not far from there that was really cool... A train built as a diner. I suggested I would likely have breakfast there. When I was all set to go, I sat down with him. We spoke about professions. He had been a grade school teacher. Originally he was from Chicago. He was also a photographer. I opened up my Flickr album and showed him my Chicago images. He nodded and said the place name of each photo. He then looked at me with a worn half-smile half-sad-face and said, "You're making me homesick." I asked him where home was now. He said San Diego. When I asked if he had a place there, he was silent for a time and then told me how he lived in a hotel for a little while, and it was cheap, with lots of poor people. He described how he couldn't get from bed to the bathroom without killing two or three cockroaches along the way, and there were bed bugs. After a year, he wondered why he was living like this, so he got his act together and got this stuff, motioning to his tent, bike and gear. "I'm essentially homeless." I nodded and he continued. "I should be getting back there. I'll get my job at the hostel I used to work at, make some money and eventually I'd like to buy a sailboat. Then I could take folk out on the water."

Machka 

This trip you're planning (this coming summer?) may help ... you'll likely see all sorts of different camping options.

A couple tips ...

Go to Tourist Info centres. These aren't as common in Canada, but are more plentiful in Europe. You can get information about camping from those places as you go along.

Use Google. Type in: campground (or campsite, or camping) near ... wherever you're going. For example, if you type 'Campsite near Bordeaux', you'll get all sorts of options around Bordeaux.

rawklobster

I've definitely found campgrounds online, but it was unclear if they had biker sites. I did find a few websites that located campgrounds, but when linking to the specific sites of the campground, it was never very clear if biker sites were available. But I get the impression most campsites offer low rates and possibly hiker/biker type sites.

I lived in Bordeaux for a year. Was considering starting there for my trip across Europe.

Erick L

They haven't so far. A few years ago, the province asked for suggestion to be more friendly to bike tourists, and this is the email they gave, so give it a shot: cycling@ontario.ca

Not being turned away would be a great start. I did get turned away from a park on the Waterfront Trail and ended up riding late to some loud private site at 40$. Ontario has a string of small parks along the lakes. It's a great bike route and they could make it easier.

rawklobster

Yes, that's the organization a friend of mine suggested contacting. I will definitely send them an email once I compile all the suggestions and ideas that has come out of this post. I once almost had to use a KOA on the Pacific Coast, at the suggestion of the book which otherwise avoided private parks. In the end, I managed to find a not-so-nice-but-cheap site that was not too far out of the way, and quiet, if slightly unattractive. There was a guy beside my site who was working in the area to make money and was trying to keep costs down.

And yes... Not being turned away would be great. makes so much sense, I'm surprised it isn't automatic practice.

Machka 

First of all "biker" does imply motorcyclist.

Probably better to search for cyclist-friendly or bicycle-friendly campsites.


Secondly, it may be a situation like where we stayed in Luxembourg. If you do a search for Campgrounds near Luxembourg City, you'll see Camping Bon Accueil just south of Luxembourg, and some photos. It is a little bit hard to see from the photos but imagine a rectangle, with an oval road inside the rectangle. On either side of the road are designated spots for cars and caravans, separated by low hedges. In the middle of the oval is an open grassy area. That's where the cycletourists went. And there was a games room and camp kitchen area at one end of the campground.

Oh, here's the photo gallery page of the site: Camping Alzingen | Photos Galleries

This photo probably shows it best ... if you go to the link above, and look at the first photo in the second row, that's it. And you can see a larger version of that photo.

rawklobster

Cheers! I'm using "biker" in the context of this forum. I actually did searches in French and German, using their terms. But thanks for the tips! I do have a site for France that shows all campgrounds, now. They link to the website of the individual campgrounds. When I arrive at those sites, there's no indication that there are biker/cyclist/hiker/non-car sites.

I guess what I'm getting at is that it would be nice that if those facilities were offered, that it wasn't hard to figure out. Would be nice to know which hostels have safe places to lock bikes too, and that seemed to be difficult to figure out, as well.

asmac

Agreed. I've stayed at Oka and at various Ontario provincial parks and C$50/night, after taxes etc was typical. I need a powered site and that adds a bit but it would seem fair to at least deduct the parking potion of the fee. Anyhow it's damned expensive for what you get.

Machka 

Every hostel, hotel, and B&B where we have stayed in Europe (and we've spent quite a bit of time travelling there) has provided safe places for our bicycles. Hotels have even opened their conference rooms so we could store our bicycles there. Providing a safe place to store bicycles just seems to be something that is commonly done in all the places we've been.

And as for campgrounds ...

There are some which are permanent residence only. Caravans are fixed into place

There are some which are RV only. No tents.

And the rest have a combination of facilities.

As long as they allow tents, they are happy to accept cycletourists.

rawklobster

Yeah... I'd definitely opt to travel elsewhere or find another option. $50/night for a single bike is asking a bit too much, even with power.

rawklobster

It's good to know that Europeans are so accommodating!

Machka 

We've had similar experiences in other parts of the world too. Especially with campgrounds. If they accept tents, they're happy to accept cycletourists.

I'll also add that most of the campgrounds I've stayed in have provided tent campers with a grassy patch where they can pitch their tents.

Like in the photos below ... this is a campground we stayed in during the last weekend of November 2015 here in Australia. There are no designated spots ... everyone (us on our bicycles, and later a group of motorcyclists) just pitched wherever we liked.






I can only think of a few campgrounds I've stayed in with designated unpowered tent sites ... some of the Banff and Jasper National Park ones, a couple in Manitoba, one in Japan, one in France, maybe a few here in Australia ......

With most, you ride up, ask if there is any tent camping available, and they wave you over to a small field or patch of grass and tell you to set up anywhere over there.

rawklobster

Very cool! And an excellent question to ask!

djb

the prov and fed campgrounds that we tend to go to in our area of Ontario and Quebec, have pretty much universally had their layout setup with numbered umpowered sites, with a specific individual area for each client, whether you have a car, or a bicycle, or a car+trailer--but of course, every park is diff in terms of how large the sites are, and also of course it does vary quite a bit even within a campground in terms of how far from neighbours, how large the site is etc etc.

I have seen in some prov or fed parks some open areas for just putting a tent up with no distinct separation of sites, and Ive camped biking and car camping in plenty of campgrounds that are much more like you mentioned, just an area where you put your tent where you want.

It seems to me that in the larger prov parks Ive been to, the price is the same for a nice secluded shady spot, or the overflow "open field with no trees" area. I could be wrong on that though.

rawklobster

Thanks for this! I think the benefit of having hiker/biker sites specifically is the camaraderie and sharing of similar stories. Expense factors, as well, as does the attractiveness for certain hiker/bikers. Your description is definitely one that I have experienced as a non-hiker/biker.

Mostly, I think what all bikers would appreciate would be a no-turn-away policy and a reduction on the expense of staying. It would be a win for parks as well, as I think many bikers and hikers don't stay more than a day or two, and so for popular weekends, there isn't the splitting and/or underuse of regular sites.