cyccommute 

The wisest words I've ever heard from a co-worker were "you can always talk yourself out of an experiment". I apply that thinking to work and to my bicycles. That's how I've found that I can run gears much lower than Shimano says I can.

cyccommute 

I think the difference is that Brown's calculator takes the crank arm into account while Dirk Feeken's doesn't. For the raw number, Brown's is probably a better calculator but for the ability to easily compare gearing systems and to see how the gears interact and overlap, it's hard to beat Feeken's page.

Another feature of Feeken's page is that you can share it as a link so that other people can see what gearing you are using.

bradtx

jonc123, I love gearing threads. Changing the granny chain ring is the first step and while it isn't a great difference, it maybe all that you'll need. If it isn't, it's time to look at the cassette (and possibly the chain). A bit OT, but saddle time is the best teacher, both mentally and physically, to help you as a climber.

I think that of all of my roadies and mountain bikes I've ever had, I've fiddled with my touring bikes the most when it comes to fit and gearing. It all comes down to the fact that one maybe in the saddle for +5 hrs. day after day while facing unknown road conditions along with variable degrees of rider fitness.

Brad

djb

gear calculator dot com
feeken
feeken

am writing this to remember it, it certainly is a neat graph.

djb

this certainly applies to a few years back when I changed my 30 to a 26t, I had read of people doing it on this forum, and when I asked at my usual store, they basically didnt answer yes or no. I firmly believe they just didnt want to get into something that would need some fiddling, plus the not wanting to be responsible for issues.

when I bought a 26 from them, and then saw that the ring was slightly too much inboard on the crank, I tried putting some household washers as shims, and it moved it out just the right amount. Later did the same thing to a friends bike with a 26, but the thing here is that the bike store people really didnt want to commit to it as an idea, so it very much is true that you have to try things and not just listen to what is told you.
The tricky part is when people don't have the experience doing mechanical things, and take at face value being told "you cant do that" (which is completely understandable though, I mean they are the bike shop people, they should know bikes....).

Doug64

I put a 24 small ring on my daughter's 5-bolt stock crankset on her LHT without any problems. I think it was an Andel crank. I have since replaced it with a 44/32/22 crank, which she thanks me for quite often The Tiagra FD works very well with all these combinations. The only caution is there needs to be >10 tooth difference between the large chainring and the middle ring. This should not be an issue with what you are planning.

I am also a fan of the Tiagra 4503 FD. We run 9 speed systems on all our touring bikes, and they are reliable, flexible, and hard to find anymore. I've actually picked up a couple of new ones on ebay that I keep for replacements. However, they may stay in the parts bin for a long time.

This is a Tiagra 4503 FD with a Sugino 44/32/22 crankset and 11/34 cassette; it works perfectly, and with STI shifters. However, I'll bet if you asked a bike shop about it they would say "no".

Squeezebox

Does anyone use 2 different cassettes? For example riding in mountains where you will use super low gears. vs. rails -to- trails where you won't get any hills at all. Or is that where the triple comes in? Sometimes ignore the small chainring.

HTupolev

You mean like one cassette with greater spacing which maybe has a bailout granny and uses more of the wrap of your rear mech, and one cassette with close spacing for more precise high gearing elsewhere?

I guess you'd have narrower Q-factor and a spare cassette, but it sounds very annoying compared with just running a triple and having reasonable spacing over the entire range, and being able to access different ranges with just a front shift.

jonc123

I don't want to change my middle and big ring but why does it have to be greater than 10?

Squeezebox

I'm not talking about carrying an extra cassette, just maybe changing out pre-trip.

indyfabz

I see no point in having two cassettes (and two chains). Just don't use the gears you don't need. I actually tour and tour in mountainous areas and in flat areas. When I head to South Jersey to a spot I like I may use the middle chain ring on a couple of the hills that come early in the route. Other than that, I use the large ring and that's that. BTW...Not all rail trails are created equal. Go ride the Mickelson Trail in SD. There is one 4 mile stretch that, according to RWGPS, gains 628' in elevation. Not exactly flat, and it's gravel/sandy. Toss in a headwind and it made for a tough stretch. The trail has several other noticeable grades made more difficult than they appear on paper due to trail surface.

bradtx

This may only apply when using the 4503 FD. Some FDs have become more sculptured and may run into the middle ring when shifting to the outer ring. My beater bike / back-up touring bike shifts an 8T difference well using a RX100 triple FD.

Brad

jonc123

I believe what you say about the mental challenge, has lots to so with how you look and percieve things. After doing some overnights last fall I know what I can do and cannot. The one thing I did learn is I need to incorporate more hills in my training/fun rides which I do on my LHT since it's my only bike. I rode too much flat stuff, which I do have lots of that nearby.

I stopped at the LBS today and ordered a 11-34 cassette and the 24t granny gear. I can always go back to my other cassette if I don't like the spacing but something tells me I WILL like it lots! My previous 2 wheeler was a Trek hybrid which i did put racks and bags on and went on some trips with, including the Katy Trail. I knew what I wanted this time and have fixed the things that bothered me on the other bike namely having front and rear quality racks with *waterproof bags*, a nice seat and dropbars in the proper position for me (and not the guy or gal at the LBS).

I hope to continue the process of changing things out as I go along, I like new things that work. Especially new cassettes and sprockets that will help me get from poingt A to point B. One of the bike shop employees and I were discussing bikes going to 2X11-Speed. If what he told me was correct, you can get a pretty wide gear range with that easily. Sounded pretty interesting to me.

Biketouringhobo

I am using 22-32-42t Deore Crank and XT FD

jonc123

If I really wanted to do that I would buy a second rear wheel and put the cassette on that. Just switch the wheels in/out as needed. I thought about buying a second set of wheels to put different tires on for my LHT...the stock wheels are not that expensive. I only have one bike, so I think it would be a good way to get more use out of the bike and a whole lot cheaper than another bike. Haven't done it yet, happy with the tires I have now. It is a possibility though.

You got your bike yet?

jonc123

Will the cassette come with the plastic ring?

cyccommute 

I suppose you could use two different cassettes but my tours are seldom one kind of terrain. Even each day may not be one kind of terrain. Here's three days of my most recent tour. Rochester to Waterloo, NY , Taugannock Falls to Johnson City, NY and Stroudsburg to Ringing Rocks PA. If you look at the elevation profiles, you can see that there is a fair amount of flat on each day and some nasty climbs. A lot of two of those days (Rochester and Stroudsburg) were done on the flattest of the flat towpaths. (The Erie Canal could be the most boring riding I've done in my life) but all of them had climbs at some point in the day where I needed a wide range of gearing to carry me up some damned hill! I'm not about to stop and change cassettes nor would some compact double be sufficient to cover the range of terrain I was riding. That's why I use the widest range of gearing I can cobble together...and sometimes wish for something a little bit lower.

By the way, for the towpaths, I spent most of my time in the high range of my crankset. I do that most of the time on most of my bikes. I still like having a good low gear, however.

jonc123

Well, looks like I goofed up. Surly says the stock LHT comes with 11-32. I just took the wheel off the bike to check, looks like it has 11-36 on it. I have learned something today.

With the 24t front I should have a nice low of 16.6 inches. I did notice some play in the cassette (freehub). I'll ask them about that. I put the wheel back on the bike and it seems locked in when putting pressure on the pedal. Anything to worry about? I noticed slight play before, it seems worse now.

I am ordering the 24t chainring from Rivendell, LBS did not have a source. Since I have it ordered, might as well install it. I just wanted one lower gear to begin with, looks like I'll get that!

Recycle

Might want to check the largest cog again. LHTs came with 11-32 and 11-34 cogs depending on year of manufacture.
Enjoy the lower gearing.

jonc123

I counted twice; then I got smart and put my glasses on and saw 36t on it.

My wife bought a new LHT also at the same time, it has 11-36 on it also. Three biggest rings are 28, 32 and 36.

I sent Surly an E-mail about it; I E-mailed them once before and got a quick response.

Both these bikes were purchased last fall, special ordered from QBP, the LBS did not have them in stock.

****EDIT UPDATE***

I looked at the Disc Trucker on Surly's website and it does say 11-36 on it.

Disc Trucker | Bikes | Surly Bikes

Also, the 2016 catalog has 11-36 listed for all the sizes of LHT.

https://surlybikes.com//uploads/downl...LY_Catalog.pdf

Squeezebox

So is changing out a cassette a big deal? I never have. But when racing on 5 speed free wheels it was common to own several freewheels and different pairs of wheels, change according to terrain and road surface, tires also. Why not for touring?

Doug64

Some of the triple FDs' rear cages will hit the middle chainring unless there is an 11-12 tooth difference. Look at some of the road derailleurs. Some of the rear cages are narrower than others. It seems like the older triple FD's have the narrow cages. If you can find pictures of a Tiagra 4403 and a Tiagra 4503 FD (9 speed) you can see the difference.

Sorry Brad. Somehow, I missed your post. I didn't scroll down until after I posted. You are correct.

Quarryman32

FWIW, my wife and I ordered up 2015 Disc Truckers last spring. Web site at the time said 11-32 9-speed, received 11-36 10-speed. No complaints, no problems.

cyccommute 

Changing a cassette at home is fairly easy. You need a chain whip, a cassette lockring tool and a large adjustable wrench. Of course you also need a cassette.

On the road you have to carry a chain whip, a cassette lockring tool and a large adjustable wrench. And, of course, a cassette. That's a lot of extra weight to carry around on tour. You could, of course, carry extra wheels but where are you going to put them?

You are also comparing cheese to chalk when you try to compare racing to touring. Racing is something that you do near home or at least near somewhere where you can get support easily. If you want to have someone follow you around in a support vehicle while on tour, I suppose you could carry all the stuff to change gearing for every hill you come across. But even racers don't use that kind of support anymore.

But touring is usually more self-supported. If I want something while I tour, I have to carry it. Having a single gearing system that covers a wide range of terrain is better than having several gearing systems to cover the same terrain. And, as I showed with the maps above, terrain changes from hour to hour and sometimes from minute to minute. It's just not practical to stop and change the wheel or cassette whenever a hill appears or disappears in front of me.

bradtx

When I primarily rode roadies with double chain rings, I did have extra cassettes to tailor a particular bicycle to a particular route. To a much lessor extent, the mountain bikes also.

After aggravating an old knee injury I began using a triple. This pretty much ended the need to swap cassettes as long as a good initial choice was made. With my road bikes and touring bikes, I do treat the triple crank sets as doubles with a bail out ring. The mountain bike? Not so much as in 100 yds. I may use all three chain rings.

Brad