John Nolan 

In the past, I've used a lightweight mylar groundsheet under the tent floor, and, yes, make sure it doesn't extend past the tent floor. Don't pitch your tent in a depression, and you make sure the fly is well clear of the tent's floor.

I have no experience with the Big Agnes, but back in the day I spent 2 months in the Britain sleeping on a Them-a-rest, and was generally happy. If I were to do it again, I think I'd get a Therm‑a‑Rest NeoAir Xtherm. Being able to sleep is pretty crucial.

chrisx

If you do not want to buy a ground cloth / footprint, for you tent, spend 10 cents on a big plastic trash bag, cut it down the sides, and use it for a ground cloth.

Water seeps up through a bare tent floor. Get a ground cloth. If your tent is leaking from the top, you may have left it out in the sun. Sun light breaks down the chemicals the tent fabric is sprayed with, and makes it no longer watertight. Bet you could buy a new top for it.

It does rain in Ireland in the summer, but not that much.

djb

not if the floor is in good shape and is waterproof. tents that do what you are describing are crappy tents, and or need seamsealing.
I have clear memories of in a giant rainstorm, inside the tent seeing the rippling of water running under our tent, but no water coming in. This is what a tent floor is supposed to do, be waterproof. This is also why I have always used a plastic sheet under the tent to prrevent little holes getting in the tent floor from sharp stuff. Id rather the cheap plastic under thingee takes the brunt of little sharp stuff that you can miss when clearing a spot for your tent. Thats my take on it anyway from camping a lot.

chrisx

We are both correct.
You are correct for an 8 pound well built car camper tent.
I am correct for a less than 1 kilo ultra light cycle camper tent.

Op mentioned a quarter dome tent. OP you need a bit of plastic under your tent to make the floor water proof.

ps. I do not set my tent up where water can ripple under it.

djb

I cant speak for a less than 1 kg tent, as I've never owned nor slept in one that light, so dont have experience with tents with that low (I presume) X mm floor waterproofness.
As for not setting up a tent where water can ripple under it, here we get into the whole tent placement thing. I will always prefer the placement so that if there is a humungous summer rain storm (Im in Canada btw) I'd rather be on a slight slope and no depression so that if there is a deluge, the water will run under the tent, under and out, and not collect.
Thinking of water flow and retention, where it will collect, is a big part of chosing where to pitch your tent, well thats my take on it from my experience. Just as important as how waterproof your floor is, in my opinion, because it determines how long the water will stay under your tent floor--copious amounts of water I mean.

at a certain point, I see having a tent that you know will not leak in the floor - tub area, is worth some extra weight, as my experience has been that I sleep perfectly well in a big rain storm when I know I dont have to worry at all about water coming in the tent. Again, my direct experience going back 25 years bike touring, and more camping as a kid on canoe trips and whatnot.

prathmann

I can't speak for a sub-1 kg tent either, but I can vouch for my 1.1 kg tent that I've used for bicycle camping and backpacking. I've sometimes found some water under parts of the floor in the morning but have never had the water seep through the floor. And I don't use any waterproof sheet (or any other type of ground cloth) under the floor. I've always figured that if the floor ever develops any holes that I can add the waterproof sheet then and there's no need to carry the extra weight until that happens - if it ever does. So far I've had tents wear out due to zipper issues and UV degradation of the fly, but not because of worn floors.

Squeezebox

A big fight continues in the backpacking forum about tents and ground sheets. Go to WhiteBlaze.net if you want to know the latest info. A piece of Tyvek is often free. The heat shrink window film (polycro) is very light and surprisingly strong. IMHO a ground sheet will extend the life of your tent. There are a bunch of tents out there that use hiking poles as tent poles, double duty. My hiking poles weigh 1 lb. my tent poles weigh 1 lb. Carbon tent poles in place of hiking poles weigh about 6 oz. ?? So go look at backpacking tents. Particularly the cottage industry stuff. Personally I would not buy an Rei brand tent, too heavy for the money in general. And there's the whole discussion about single wall vs. double wall.
Once you start splitting hairs, there's no end.

Happy Feet

I just went biking last weekend in the rain (spent 15 hours in my sleeping bag during a downpour) and have camped a lot in it over the years. This is what I do.

• Use the lines on the fly to hold it out from the tent if you can
• Don't pitch in a depression
• If heavy weather comes from a reliable direction consider setting your door on the opposite side.
• Have a quick drying cloth (I use a shamwow) to soak up small pools
• Have a warm refuge (like your bag or puffy jacket) to warm up in
• Use a pad!

I'm one of those guys who still uses a closed cell foam mat but only because I haven't pulled the trigger on a new thermorest.

JaccoW

As many have mentioned so far, water is not your biggest issue. The cold is.
Combined with the much more humid air and wind than what you are probably used to it feels much colder at night at the same temperature.

This is also the reason why European tents are generally built differently than their North American counterparts.

E.g.

Nigor WickiUp 3


GoLite Shangri-La 3

Notice how the Nigor only has mesh on the top part? That is because of the wind. I remember when American tents came to European shores 5-10 years ago and customers were complaining that all the mesh would let too much wind through and that the outer fly was too high to keep out horizontal rain. (And yes, that can be an issue in most Northern European countries)
Turns out it not many people go camping in horrendous weather and that a tent with lots of mesh will do just fine for most summer campers.

Anyway, I digress.
Bring a pad that is good up to freezing temperatures (R-value of 2-3 or more) and you will do just fine.
Doesn't have to be a big inflatable one. A Z-lite for example will work pretty good as well.

andrewclaus

Here's another trick that's free, weighs nothing, and will take your breath away.

To those of us on a limited budget, non-inflatable pads work just fine for most three-season camping. In winter, I add a layer of Reflectix duct insulation, left over from a home improvement project. With some judicious site selection, reliable comfort and dryness can be achieved for pennies a night. (If you need to sleep on concrete, on plank floors, or in pounded, muddy commercial campgrounds, inflatables rule.)

In addition to cost, reliability may be an issue for some. It's probably not an issue in Ireland, but if you're ever going to be camping in a thorny environment, or under the stars near a campfire, inflatables can be susceptible to puncture or embers.

djb

Ha, funny.
Neat trick too. I will try that sometime with my neoair just for giggles sometime, not sure if it will work with the valve shape of it, but will certainly try.

and yes, reliability with any air type mattress, self inflating or blowup ones, is susceptible to holes, but in all honesty, in the 25 years or so that Ive used thermorest ones, Ive only had to patch once or twice, and I'm fairly certain that was kid induced. In non thorn areas, using common sense --not sitting on pad on the ground with possible sharp stones or whatever, and being aware of hard cornered objects in your tent, generally gives very good life. My experience anyway.

Sharp--the mentioned folding foam type mattresses are certainly a no brainer for not having to be careful of punctures, but of course they do take up more volume/space on the bike.
Have fun checking out all the various options in a well supplied outdoor store.

*Sorry for this, I mix up peoples names and faces--this trip will be the TT visit as well right? Im one of the ex motorcycle guys on this forum who follows motogp etc and has watched the TT over the years (with sweaty palms though).

fietsbob

Inside Passage to AK ferries used to let you use duct tape to put your tent up on top of the main weather deck.

Wonder if that's still true..

MichaelW

Sleeping mats insulate you from damp, cold ground. Old fashioned closed-cell mats cannot fail. Newer inflatable ones are lighter and smaller. I use a 1/3 closed cell mat (for feet) and 3/4 self-inflating mat. The closed cell doubles as my sitmat for use out-doors.
In the UK, the ground is normally damp and may be for every night of the year, some years. Other times, we have summer droughts for several weeks.
I have slept in cheap and expensive, old and new tents, they have all worked well enough in UK summers.
UK winters need more serious tents to survive storms, esp in the West and North.
A ground sheet underneath the tent will protect the material from mud, useful when packing.

Location is key, avoided depressions, looking for flattish ground which can drain to one or both sides, avoiding roots, rocks, hummocks. In very dry weather, avoid camping under big trees, and when storms are expected, beware of flooding. In rain, if you choose to cook in the open tent doorway, take care and keep a knife handy for emergency exit

Sharpshin

All these replies are much appreciated, thanks.



I have a Leatherman multi-tool with a 2 3/4" (70mm) knife blade, the blade does not lock in place.

While I understand no one here is a Lawyer or Solicitor, am I likely to run afoul of the law in the UK, Ireland or France with such a multi-tool packed in my under-seat bag?

Machka 

Check with airlines first ... look under their restrictions. Obviously you wouldn't be able to take that as carry-on, but also check the checked baggage restrictions.

JaccoW

Really shouldn't be a problem in checked luggage. I've taken a Leatherman Skeletool on the plane numerous times. Just don't take it as carry-on lest you want to end up at the TSA Instagram.

djb

cue the tears running down your face as your lovely, well made tool says bye bye to you as you head off past security...

years ago, I bought my nephew a bike multi-tool (allen keys, etc the usual stuff, no knife) and it was confiscated, so anything with anything metal and pointy is a no go. Just dont even take the chance with innoucuous stuff like a bike tool thingee.

Salamandrine 

I would suggest a thermarest prolite or similar, probably full length. IMHO that's enough, and they pack small.

I spent a month or so camping out in England and Ireland, back in the bad old days, with nothing more than a pup tent and 3/8" ensolite pad. That was the only way to go ultralite at the time. It wasn't always rosy, but it was doable.

The most important thing is picking the spot where you put your tent. A new tent is not going to leak like an old cheap boy scout tent, but best not to give it a chance. I've never got wet inside a modern sealed tent even in some major deluges. You could always pack some seam sealer for cheap insurance.

A perhaps more important choice is the sleeping bag. A good synthetic will still be warm (mostly) if it's wet, but they are very bulky. If down gets soaked it's useless, though if a corner gets damp it's usually no big deal. Normally I wouldn't consider anything but a good grade down bag here in the west, but -- for that environment -- it may be worth it. There's also that newfangled dri down stuff. As has been said, it can be very cold there in 'summer'. I'd recommend a bag rated 15ºF or less, though IME manufacturers vary in how they interpret this.

Tourist in MSN

It was not at an airport, but I had to go through a metal detector security line. And police had to inspect all my stuff. One of the police started throwing a fit, I was sure I was going to be arrested, he was screaming about the terrible weapon that he said I was trying to sneak in. Then another cop looked at it and said to the first cop, haven't you ever seen a fountain pen before? I am glad that the second cop was there and knew what it was. And, yes I got to keep my pen.

Machka 

Not that a person would want to fly with Delta with a bicycle, but just for reference ...

This is from their restricted items page:

Baggage Restrictions & Restricted Items : Delta Baggage : Delta Air Lines

Doug64

I've carried a SOG multi-tool with a knife blade in my bike's tool box on several international and domestic flights in my checked baggage without any problems. I once made it through security with my Swiss Army knife stowed in my bar bag that I was bringing as "carry-on". I did not realize knife was there until I was unpacking when we returned home.

I don't think I'd count on an air mattress to keep me dry if the tent floor is leaking. I believe that preventative measures, like making sure the tent's seams are well sealed, using a ground cloth, and making sure the rainfly is well guyed out; would be more effective for keeping dry.

I use a lightweight sil-nylon ground cloth, making sure that it is tucked in under the floor of the tent or rainfly. This keeps ground moisture from reaching the tent bottom, and keeps it clean. Any added protection to the tent floor is just a bonus.


We had 35 days of rain on this tour. We joked that "summer only came on a Saturday", This must have been a Saturday. The ground shown here was very wet (Netherlands), but the ground cloth did a good job of keeping things dry. It also helps that we have a good tent.