truflip

A friend and I are planning on a Toronto to Ottawa trip on our bikes and had some questions from those more experienced.
We plan to do this in 5 legs. Each leg would be 79-110km depending on the weather, trail, etc...
I have done a few centuries on my bike before and never had a problem.

My concern is when I add additional load in key areas to carry gear, change of clothes, food etc....
My seat stay and forks do not have any eyelets to install panniers. my carbon seatpost is my only option (27.2mm) when it comes to attaching something
I considering buying a backpack but 100km with 15-20lbs in my back doesnt sound fun.

My bike is a Lapierre Sensium 200 to give you an idea of its geometry. Not quite low like race bikes not too upright like endurance frames.

Am i looking for trouble doing this on this bike? I would consider looking into getting a used bike that is maybe steel or aluminum if the price is right. Thanks in advance

Tim_Iowa

Don't attempt to attach a seatpost rack to your carbon seatpost; it's not rated for that kind of torque.

You have plenty of options to add luggage to your bike. Search "bikepacking" on google to find tons of rack-free bag systems. Revelate and Porcelain Rocket are two popular brands.

With a seat bag, frame bag, and handlebar bag, you can carry an effective touring load (especially if you're not camping).

unterhausen

bikepacking folks rarely use racks, they just don't add much more than weight. Frame bags, seat bags and handlebar bags will carry that much. If you look up seat bag bikepacking on google images, you will see the bags people use will hold a lot of stuff

this is really a touring question, if you like I can move it to that section of the forum. There are threads on ultralight touring which you might find useful if you don't mind sorting through the anklebiting

truflip

@unterhausen, thanks! yes please move it to touring. I didnt even see that forum. I can sort through some threads there just wasnt using the right keywords earlier
@Tim_Iowa, thanks for the tips also! much appreciated

unterhausen

moved here from Long distance

pacificaslim

I use bikepacking bags on my Ritchey cyclocross bike when I go on short tours, but would be totally fine doing so on my Lapierre Pulsium as well. Especially if I wasn't camping out.

prathmann

I wouldn't use one of the seat-post mounted racks that put a substantial torque on the post. But there are several rear racks that attach to the rear hub quick release which would be fine on a light carbon bike. A light (one pound or less) rack carrying your gear in light stuff sacks can be more versatile and not any heavier than using a set of frame and seat bags.

Barrettscv 

My Carbon fiber Pedal Force CX2 Cyclocross frame has rack mounts on the seatstay. The bike is light and fast but still handles well with a 25 lb load on the back. It's a great road bike alternative, 98% of the speed but twice the utility. The larger 700x32 tires on the CX2 allow me to enjoy pavement or gravel roads.

The frameset is a good value and you could transfer your components over from your current bike;

https://pedalforce.com/online/product...ducts_id=21005

The bike will also take fenders and a rear rack.

alan s 

Recent thread on the subject. https://www.bikeforums.net/touring/10...oad-bikes.html

fietsbob

Load on a bike trailer , not the bike, has proved successful with road bikes . trailer hitches to rear axle not frame.

djb

Axiom make a rear rack made for bikes without mounting bolt holes, Streamliner, uses the rear skewer and up top bolts onto the bolt of your rear brake caliper, and it has been used on cf bikes a lot.
I put one on my wifes bike a few years ago, its not expensive, about 30-35can. (got if for 30 here in Montreal), its well made and Arkel makes a great light set of rear panniers called Dry Lites, waterproof, 20 or 25l sized roll down style panniers that go on using velcro to the top of a rack. They are veyr light, about 450g I think, and you could fit all your clothes in them with no issues. They are about 90-100can.

take a look at them at a bike store, I dont know T.O stores, but you should be able to find them, along with the Streamliner rack.
Add in a handlebar bag and or frame bag and you'd be set, you'd have reasonable packing room for your stuff, weight would be ok and as I always say about stuff like this, if you dont like them or think you'll never use them again, it will be easy to resell it all afterwards at a good price--same with barbags and frame bags and such, more so if they are in good shape.

I have a set of the dry-lites, they work well, are waterproof, and if you use common sense of not putting in hard, sharp objects, are perfectly durable. You could change your seatpost to aluminum if needed if you want to go for a large or larger seatbag, and front handlebar bags are an option, although if you have carbon bars and or stem, this could be a problem for clamping things to bars--but again, bars could be changed also.

changes cheaper than buying a diff bike, especially if you really like riding your bike and it fits well etc etc.

have fun, would be a nice trip.

ps , if you use frame bags, with cf, use tape or whatever to protect your frame from abrasion of straps rubbing back and forth.

Squeezebox

So is there any great reason that nobody seems to make a carbon touring bicycle, with real touring geometry and gearing. Are fork and seatstay eyelets all that difficult with carbon. Co-motion makes great steel frames. Who else is trying to do high end??

MixedRider

There is a lot of questions here. So you are planning a 5-night small tour. Are you planning on staying in a hotel?

If so, I think you really only need a small frame bag for clothes and maybe a small camelback for water. Food and such can either go in your jersey or small camelback or small seat bag. Doing at most of 60 miles per day is easily doable if traveling light. You can stop at grocery stores/gas stations for lunch and snacks.

It sounds like you are in good enough shape that doing 60 miles per day will be only 4 hours of ride time. That is not too bad at all. Have fun!

djb

Keep in mind that your bike really isn't designed to take significant loads on the rear triangle, it's a road bike, so keeping the weight down in whatever rear system you decide (skewer rack, seat bag) is always going to be prudent. Depending on your weight, using other frame or handlebar bags to share the weight around may be a good idea also. But really comes down to how much weight we're talking about.

Also be aware that adding let's say 15lbs+ will mean harder climbing out steep hills compared to what you are used to with your 50/34 and 11-28 low gear, but you can do rides with the gear before hand to get an idea of how it is, ride down into the don valley and up to get a real idea of how steep hills are with the extra weight. You probably can't go much larger of a cassette than your 28, and a rear derailleur change, new cassette and a longer chain will gain some gearing yet cost easily as much as buying a gear carrying system, racks, bags etc. Of course that's up to you to decide and perhaps look into that cost wise with proper recommendations from a good bike store, but I imagine a long cage Rd, maybe 34 cassette and new chain plus labour will easily be 200 bucks+

Have you ever traveled packing very light and minimalist, as keeping your kit simple and versatile is the way to go, ie don't take jeans, heavy set of extra shoes, six dress shirts etc--exaggerated but you get the point.

elcruxio

Considering CoMotion frames are made from steel you consider inferior, it's strange you would consider them high end.

Squeezebox

Seriously!! Please stop your foolish insults!!
Co-motion makes quality bicycles. Lots of quality steel bicycles out there. LHT is just not one of them.

I have no problem with steel, quite the contrary. I do have a problem with low quality steel masquerading as high quality.
Co-motion uses high quality Reynolds 853, heat treated, and such. Beautiful clean welds. The LHT is unrated untreated Cr-moly. Even Surly admits it's thicker and heavier than it needs to be.
Go to the framebuilder forum, Scooper will educate you a lot about the different qualities of steel. It's very much worth the time.
Steel is real, but it's not the only thing out there.

bradtx

truflip, You may want to use an alloy seat post, match the set back of your present seat post, and a clamp-on rack. A handle bar bag will allow the front to carry some of the weight. While I generally use my touring bike, I can mount around 20 lb. (~9 kg) onto the front of my distance roadie using my aero bars.

If this is more or less a one time event I wouldn't be too concerned about gearing. Read some of the ultra light touring threads for some good data.

Brad

ironwood

Get a used bike. If you check the things like Craig's List, you'll possibly see a nice touring, or sport touring bike for $250 or so. On the Rivendell site, Lugged Steel Bicycles, Wool Clothing, Leather Saddles & Canvas Bike Bags from Rivendell Bicycle Works there is an article entitled "Across America on a $100 bike".

One builder of high quality carbon bikes, Calfee does not put eyelets for racks on his stays but tells customers to use p-clips instead. Carbon, although it is light and strong is not "tough",i.e. it doesnot resist twisting and similar forces. A sideways force on a rack could damage the stay.

elcruxio

If CoMotion used 853 there would be something to rave about since that is a fantastic steel, air hardening and all.

However CoMotion uses Reynolds 725, which is 4130 Chromoly steel, which incidentally is the exact same stuff that the Surly LHT is made of, the manufacturer of the tubes is different but both tubesets are butted seamless tubing, funny thing that. The big difference is though that the 725 is heat treated so after welding the frame together the tube middles have a bit more tensile strength, the tube ends have had their heat treatment removed due to welding heat which renders them back to the pre heat treat strength of 4130.
The things you say about unrated and untreated... Well, sorry to burst your bubble but the LHT frames come from Taiwan from one of the most reputable factories out there, Maxway which makes steel frames for a lot of other manufacturers as well. The Trek 520 is likely made there, as well as Kona Sutra, etc etc. If not at the same factory then at least in a nearby one. I would consider it very strange if Trek and all the other big manufacturers got the amazing magic chromoly whereas Surly just got the standard stuff (while all being in all intents and purposes the same stuff, ie. double butted chromoly tubing in various diameters and wall thicknesses)
And it needs to be kept in mind as well that Taiwan is the bike manufacturing capitol of the world, so frames made there are more likely to be good than bad as they have the knowledge base and infrastructure for them.

I also have this persistent thing where I'd like you to find the link or direct quote where you validate the things you spout, such as Surly LHT has more tube thickness than it needs. It certainly has enough to be stiff and durable enough for use as heavy duty expedition bike. But the tubing in the LHT is really not particularly thick either in tube size or wall thickness. It's actually pretty standard and likely quite close to CoMotion.
LHT tube diameters change with sizes but my model uses 31.8mm dia tubes in the top and down tube with both 0.9/0.6/0.9 (down tube) butting and 0.8/0.5/0.8 butting (top tube)
Now if we consider what Reynolds offers with 725... Yup, 31.8mm dia tubes with 0.8/0.5/0.8 butting as standard oversize and 34.9 dia tubes with the same butting. So if CoMotion uses those it actually means that CoMotion frames have even more steel and weight than the Surly LHT. If they just use 31.8, like Surly then the CoMotions are a tiny bit lighter.

Don't really need schooling from the Frame Builders forum. I used to lurk there years ago to soak up on bicycle steel knowledge to complement my hobby of knife steel knowledge searching. Steel's kinda my thang ya know.

Actually I do kinda have to thank you since as you use the Brannigan principle (to get a correct answer on the Internet, post a wrong one instead) I get to write about a subject I'm interested in and know about and this knowledge may in the future help others who are looking for answer pertaining to these topics.

DanBell

Come on, everyone, let's try to keep this on the original topic for poor OP.

Squeezebox, if you're really interested in this discussion about why there are no carbon tourers, you should start a new thread. Asking about it in someone else's thread that is unrelated isn't good form. I have some thoughts on it but Truflip didn't come here for that conversation.

Trevtassie

The Streamliner is not a bad rack, it won't take a huge load as it hasn't got so much lateral stability compared to heavier rack, but a couple of light panniers would be OK. You might need to get creative to fit it however, on my partners road bike I needed to make an extra bracket to reach the brake bridge.

gauvins

Have you considered a light trailer, such as the extrawheel? Would leave your bike intact but for the rear skewer. Limited structural stress.

djb

on my wifes XS frame it fit on with no problem, but it would be fairly straightforward to see how it goes onto truflips frame in about a minute, and as you say, there are ways to get around it.

re stability, as someone who commutes regularly with the similar weight that a non-camping, non-cooking type trip would entail (essentially clothes--a spare pair of bike shorts, jersey, light quickdry long pants, light shorts perhaps, light off bike top, rain gear, snacks, camera/phone, repair stuff/tube/pump etc) the total weight for a hotel motel trip like this could very easily be 15lbs, and this is nothing for any rack, and the Streamliner is actually quite a sturdy rack--but as you say, the single mounting point would not be ideal for a fully loaded trip, but for the plan of truflip, not an issue at all, especially with some light panniers like the Arkels.

The other advantage of the Arkels are the shape and size, would be a real help for avoiding heel strike, even if the rear rack had to have a slight forward leaning slope to it.

re purchasing a used bike, total hit and miss, with all kinds of unknowns and possible,likely repair fixup costs, and you take away the fun factor of a bike that the rider knows, and presumably fits well considering he or she says that numerous centuries have been done with no issues, and dont forget the fun factor of riding the bike he or she knows and its characteristics.

re trailers, again, costs, and added weight--for carrying a few clothes and repair stuff, to me this is overkill.

re gearing, personally I would want lower gearing, but as someone mentioned, if a one off trip, well, if you have to walk part of a hill or two, this aint the end of the world, but then as mentioned, its up to the OP to evaluate the costs of gearing changes in relation to how they ride and if they figure they want to spend the money and or if its worth it.

nun

Any Endurance or Gravel carbon bike will do the job, so your Lapierre looks like it will work......but I'd probably get wheels with a few more spokes over the stock ones. Pack your gear in bikepacking bags or a Carradice saddlebag and get a handlebar bag and you won't need a backpack at all.

djb

Hi there nun, now that it's spring, have you been trying any of the bikes you were interested in? Let us know when you do.