rekmeyata

Not only that but years ago before their economic revolution (and in some areas this is still happening) horribly made and very cheap Chinese bikes that Chinese people rode in China have had some of those bikes traveled long distances, frames held up but they may have had to do repairs along the way to parts on the bikes but they didn't care about that.

rekmeyata

You do not understand, you think throwing lots of money at something is the answer and a lot us here have proven you wrong, as well as thousands of people who have toured both just in their country as well as expedition type of touring have been done at reasonable costs; and all of those people have had very few problems, but everyone is eventually going to have a breakdown expensive or not.

If a person is worried about wheel strength you can do what I've done, well actually my bike came with them, but you can have 40 spoke tandem wheels made for not much more than the prices i mentioned earlier and the cost difference is basically the extra spokes and labor! Most wheel failures by the way on people who are touring are those who thought they could tour on wheels with less than 36 spokes, and rims that were not design to tour on, and most of those rims that failed were rear wheels of course. So most wheel failures are the fault of the person who own the bike, and/or due to the person who assembled the wheel didn't make it correctly for one reason or another, price for the most part had nothing to do with it.

I'm sorry but that article I presented here is echoed through out the industry, so you may disagree but I'll take the experts word at this and not somebody on a forum. Don't take that as an insult, but if the vast majority of experts in any given field is contrary to one persons ideas on some subject that is well known like the article I presented, then I'll go with what they have to say. There is a reason that Reynolds 531 is so well known and respected in touring circles, and now that 531 is no longer in production the new stuff that has been relabeled but is the same as 531 has take the lead role.

mstateglfr 

This is true.

For touring, a $100 set of wheels off amazon will typically be poorly tensioned if true, and perhaps they are both poorly tensioned AND not true. There will be little to no grease in the hubs. The balls will be cheaper quality.
But that doesnt mean a $1200 set of aero carbon wheels is better for touring.
A $250 set of wheels with 36 butted spokes, Shimano 105 hubs, and Mavic A319 rims will perform completely fine. Or if you want to go with easier maintenance hubs like the ones from VO or Phil, cool, its still only $500-600 for a wheelset.

You have a solid performing set of reliable wheels for $250. You have a solid performing set of reliable wheels with easier maintenance/repair for $500-600. And then you have aero carbon wheels for $1200.
In this instance, as with most, the more expensive option is not 'better/stronger'. There is a happy medium balance between $100 cheap wheels and $1200 race wheels.



I see you just gave up on the claim that Dura Ace would be great for loaded touring. Good job knowing when to cut bait. You throw enough pasta at a wall, some will stick, but that wasnt one to stick.

GerryinHouston

I have 3 Weinmann wheels on ZAC19 rims. Roughly 50 bucks a piece. They all arrived true and with proper tension (around 60/100 kg for the rear). The oldest has 1500 mi on it and works fine. They are inexpensive and they are heavy, but arrived true and properly tensioned.

Au contraire, the OEM wheels on both my Trek and my Randonee were woefully undertensioned and worse, the bike mechanics practically refused to up the tension.

You don't have to pay a fortune, unless you want to.

str

there is nothing, but nothing wrong with it to buy a Colnago C60 with a set of Lightweight wheels, or a IWC 5002, or the latest LV bag as gift for your wife.
be happy and enjoy the exclusiveness.

Salamandrine 

Field repairability is a reasonable argument for going with a modest quality steel. It's something to be considered if the bike is going to be used for an around the world tour, etc. I suppose that's partly why all of the currently available touring bikes have gone with 520 or similar and relatively heavy construction. The other factor being cost of course.

I guess the obvious question is whether the bike is going to be used for this type of adventure, or a more typical week long domestic trip. I'd suppose the latter is by far more common.

The counter argument is that it is rare for frames to break. I was a mechanic for many years and saw very few frames that simply broke. Presumably the idea is that a dropout or something will break. It does happen at times, but not often, and usually the result of a manufacturing defect. Besides that, if a dropout broke it was almost always on cheap frames, which sort of argues against them... More common was head on crash damage and the resulting buckled tubes. This wouldn't be economically repairable anyway regardless of location. Another example: my Masi has something like 100,000 miles on it before it got retired, and it never broke. This is despite being a 20lb lightly constructed bike. Granted it did not get used for touring but it saw plenty of rough and gravel roads.

rekmeyata

I agree with you, if a person simply goes far enough intellectually to read reviews on things they would discover that there are some cheap wheels that are done right, maybe on occasion the factory may screw up but I've seen expensive wheels that had happened to. I personally would not buy those wheels for my needs but they would suit the needs of a lot of people, I doubt that would tour on them but as someone said there have been Walmart bikes that gone on tours, again I wouldn't trust a Walmart bike to do that but to each their own. Bicycle Touring Isn't Just For Crazy Guys | Bicycle Touring Pro

Tourist in MSN

To reinforce the comment by Doug64 that damage in transport is common, a few photos of my bike box after one of my trips. Fortunately the only damage was to the cardboard box, but I considered myself lucky.




One one trip when I took my bike out of the box, the chain was wrapped around the bottom bracket shell and the part of the taillight battery compartment had come apart when usually you need a coin to pry it open. I concluded that to knock the taillight apart someone had to have dropped the box from a height of at least 10 feet.

GerryinHouston

I am not that savvy. The first wheel was offered as a warranty replacement for the Bontrager AT550 which was losing a spoke a week... Black, 36 holes single crossing pattern.

Out of curiosity, I looked up ZAC19 and found out that it is a reasonably sturdy rim. Perhaps not as good as the Mavic319 my Novara Randonee has, but with good reports.

About 600 miles later I decided to get a matching front wheel. I didn't! For some reason you can get a black rimmed rear wheel but a silver rimmed front. The front wheel has massive 2.6 mm spokes!

Then I got a rear wheel for my wife's bike, she probably has 300 mi. on it. Too early to tell...

The hubs may be low quality, but they will receive good maintenance. Time will tell.

shipwreck

Since this is a crazy thread with all sorts of anecdotes, links, and arguments with no real direction, I thought I would throw in with some of my experiences touring on differing qualities of bike frame.

For years I toured on a Maruishi Emperor I found in a shed at a city park I was working at. It had weeds growing through it so high that it could barely be seen. It had first gen shimano 600 on it, with good for the period Ukia rims and Suzue sealed bearing hubs, even though it is a gas pipe 80's frame.
Even though it is gas pipe tubing, it still handles a heavy load like its nothing, while being one of the most comfortable riding bicycles I own. I have always figured that if I had a custom frame built, I would have it based on the size of this frame, with a top tube that has an unusual slight slope down to the front.

The popular bike forums poster/punster Robow saw it in action once, a little more stripped down that in this picture.


Luckily, I found this one at a yard sale, frame only still in the box a couple years ago now. Built it up with old and new parts that I know I like. It wont handle the load that the Maruishi can, but I tend to tour lighter nowadays, so its not an issue. A 1990 Davidson. The original purchaser passed away before getting it built, and 25 years later I was the first(and so far only)person to swing a leg over it.

Its a beautiful bike frame, enough so that it has actually upstaged some new bikes at the shop where I had the headset pressed in, and once on the road when a guy in a group pointed to it and told his buddies, "check that out. Its one of those dream bikes". Once I thought it was stolen, when in fact some bike shop employees moved it into the shop to "get it out of the rain". They left three other bikes outside, a Salsa, a trek 520, and a Volpe, all of which were newer and just as loved by their owners.

The main differences between the Maruishi and the Davidson are that the Davidson is lighter with a better(flawless)finish, can be ridden for long distances with in great comfort, though with a lighter load. And when it gets its first long scratch, I will feel sick inside. Up to now Ive been very careful with it. The Maruishi is heavier with a poor finish(lugs not ground smooth) and can be ridden for long distances with stupid heavy loads in great comfort. Its scratched to hell, so it gets leaned up faster, saving me up to 30 precious seconds throughout the day.

One bike was free, the other was the most Ive ever paid for a frame alone(but thats not a high bar, it was a steal). Both get used. One will kill me if it gets stolen, the other will just maim.

I have about three more bikes that I use to tour, but they are all for radically different things, so don't compare apple to apple as well as these two.

antokelly

you must have the midus touch to pick up 2 cracking bikes like that

Squeezebox

So if the quality of the frame or components on a touring bicycle makes no difference. That means my brother's neighbor who has an old Ford with a tree growing up through it, uses it as a chicken coop. So the neighbors car is as good as my brother's Porche. Right!!
Look at the people living in tin sheds in some places of the world. Their houses are as good as yours? Mine is about 1/2 way in between to be honest.

KD5NRH

Disagree; what you're paying for is the fact that there are hipster wanna-bes (who of course, think they're not hipster wanna-bes) willing to pay several thousand for a few hundred worth of bike parts put together by a true hipster (again, most likely identifying as some sort of tuning artist rather than a hipster) who got most of his experience working the toy section at WalMart until he decided they didn't appreciate his artistic touches like mixing up the brake handles or putting riser bars on backward.

MixedRider

Inspection, maintenance, and upkeep is key for having a bike that performs well.

Spending $1 or $10,000 on a bike doesn't mean anything if you don't know how to ride it, don't use it, or don't maintain it.

There will always be individuals who want the most expensive item just because it costs a lot. There are also people who like to try and get the cheapest and make it work. Both are fine. But if the user knows what they want, why they want it, and use it, go for it. Get what makes you happy as long as you use it and don't have any regrets.

elcruxio

You do realize this is the schoolbook example of the strawman fallacy? It honestly cannot be considered a valid argument in any possible sense.

It would do you good to stop argumenting in fallacies and start bringing something to the table, like your touring experience or mechanical skills.

manapua_man

...anyone who takes more than 20 seconds to think about that statement would realize why it makes no sense on several levels.

And we're talking about bicycles. Specifically, touring bikes- where differences between a normal and 'high performance' model are really going to be marginal at best since they tend to be overbuilt anyway.

Most perceived differences have more to do with geometry and fit more than the materials used for the frame IMHO. Even with lightweight road bikes, something made of CF with a not so great design is going to feel a lot worse than something in aluminum or even steel that fits properly.

jefnvk

I must disagree with you. I'm more comfortable and happy using stuff than having expensive stuff. I far preferred my $350 vintage touring build and the $1500 or so I sunk into tickets and food and lodging to use it for a week and a half in Europe than an $1850 bike sitting in the corner of my apartment not getting much more use than the weekly trips to the brewery because I depleted my savings on "the best".

And a Porsche is certainly not a better car than a 1990 Escort if the main uses are grocery trips and going to church. TO make it a more apples to apples comparison, a new Porsche isn't even really a better car than a new Focus if the intention is a cross country road trip. Driving the Nurburgring? Sure, but that brings me back to my belief that the only realm where more money generally means better is high level competition that the majority of us don't participate in.

mstateglfr 

Each time you post, your comments are eviscerated. This is such an absurd conclusion for you to draw that I think you sometimes need to work to come up with some of these posts.

Squeezebox

I feel sorry for you for your lack of experience with a quality bicycle.

str

don't feel sorry, this is about the cheaper = the better

manapua_man

Quality touring-specific bike, or road/mountain bikes?

I've had high end carbon fiber in the past. Unless you're racing competitively the differences between high end carbon and aluminum aren't that great. And after a certain point, quality really doesn't directly correlate to price.

Squeezebox

your diarrhea is not the same as evisceration.

jefnvk

So just out of curiosity, why do you drive a $1000 car instead of a Porsche? Isn't it a bit silly that you are happy with a $1000 car, while also mocking others for being fine with a bike you find inferior and too cheap?

Miele Man

You've had a number of threads/posts about touring bikes and touring but... Have you actually done any real touring? Gone ane real distance?

Cheers

KD5NRH

And? If they've been at UPS's mercy, I pretty much consider them entirely dry-fitted: a pile of parts stuck together just to make it apparent they're all there. Doesn't matter what brand they are, they've been bounced, jolted and subjected to who-knows-what, so they're getting reworked.

Of course, then it starts reminding me of the guys who buy some Kimber or Para Ordnance pistol, drop it at the gunsmith unfired and have another $500 worth of work done on it, and then go around telling everybody how wonderful it is because of the brand. If they did that to a used Taurus it would work just as well.