"A lot of what you pay for with expensive touring bikes is that it looks prettier..."
#401
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On Calfee's page for the Adventure style they note that it is available on different model frames which vary from $2,800 to $5,200. The most expensive ones included boron-fiber which supposedly reduces damage risk:
"The use of boron fiber has come of age with its use in our high performance bicycle frames. Bicycle weights have dropped from 18 pounds back in the 1980s to 14 pounds or less in 2014. Much of this weight savings comes with the use of carbon fiber composites. As bicycle companies compete in the arms race to make even lighter, stiffer bikes, safety and durability are pushed to the limit. High modulus (66 Msi and greater) carbon fiber is being used to make stiff yet thin walled tubing. These tubes can be vulnerable to damage from a variety of real world sources. When slightly damaged from a pebble thrown up by a passing car, or an unfortunate event during a group ride or race, a thin walled tube can rapidly degrade to an unsafe condition. Our very popular Calfee Carbon Repair business is evidence of this common failure. Using boron filaments in the tube laminate mitigates this problem by significantly enhancing the tubes structural performance."
#403
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hey, methinks you're on to something here!
"traditional touring frame/bike" bicycle and/or frame designed to meet the
needs of the "classical" approach to loaded, unsupported touring. common
characteristics include, but are not limited to, and are subject to argument,
speculation and trolling, include yada, yada, yada. traditional frames/bikes
may be differentiated from other styles of touring bikes/frames by yada,
yada, yada.
"traditional touring frame/bike" bicycle and/or frame designed to meet the
needs of the "classical" approach to loaded, unsupported touring. common
characteristics include, but are not limited to, and are subject to argument,
speculation and trolling, include yada, yada, yada. traditional frames/bikes
may be differentiated from other styles of touring bikes/frames by yada,
yada, yada.
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Through out this thread I have not figured out what the bottom line is. CF bikes are as good for any given application as other materials. Mountain bikes, tandems, CX bikes are made of CF because it has some very desirable characteristics for bicycle use. I wouldn't hesitate to tour on a properly made CF bike. I've owned and ridden several CF bikes and never had any kind of durability or functionality problem.
#405
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holy poultry in a porsche, batman! 5 grand for a freakin' frame? personally, i'd rather
invest in a traditional steel touring frame (or even a large aluminium mtb frame) and
spend the savings on....touring.
at $20/day credit card touring, that's 250 days on the road. could cover expenses
for over a year if camping.
ohmyfreakingladygaga, never mind! if space-age carbonium is that fragile, i wouldn't
wanna take a chance touring on inferior steel.
invest in a traditional steel touring frame (or even a large aluminium mtb frame) and
spend the savings on....touring.
at $20/day credit card touring, that's 250 days on the road. could cover expenses
for over a year if camping.
wanna take a chance touring on inferior steel.
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my most comfortable bike is a steel Surly Long Haul trucker. It's a bike that you want to ride for very long. Mine has 26 inch wheels and is heavy but even saying that, I can still ride for far at just under 20 mph.... It's like driving a cadillac or a top of the range Lexus car
I have also recently had a Gitane Tour de France steel bike and that was a very comfortable (and a fast ride).
I'm searching (daily) for a Koga Miyata pro
I have also recently had a Gitane Tour de France steel bike and that was a very comfortable (and a fast ride).
I'm searching (daily) for a Koga Miyata pro
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Mike Hall did some touring on a CF bike.
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Lael Wilcox's Ruby. Definitely CF, definitely a touring situation.
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holy poultry in a porsche, batman! 5 grand for a freakin' frame? personally, i'd rather
invest in a traditional steel touring frame (or even a large aluminium mtb frame) and
spend the savings on....touring.
at $20/day credit card touring, that's 250 days on the road. could cover expenses
for over a year if camping.
invest in a traditional steel touring frame (or even a large aluminium mtb frame) and
spend the savings on....touring.
at $20/day credit card touring, that's 250 days on the road. could cover expenses
for over a year if camping.
But if you only have two weeks a year to tour in, lot's of disposable income and the rest of the year to think about it I imagine one would focus excessively on the bike until it becomes an intellectual exercise in building the best possible bike one can afford.
Why does that Mike Hall tour bike remind me of a bike used in a Trans America race?
Last edited by Happy Feet; 06-17-16 at 11:13 PM.
#411
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On Calfee's page for the Adventure style they note that it is available on different model frames which vary from $2,800 to $5,200. The most expensive ones included boron-fiber which supposedly reduces damage risk:
"The use of boron fiber has come of age with its use in our high performance bicycle frames. Bicycle weights have dropped from 18 pounds back in the 1980s to 14 pounds or less in 2014. Much of this weight savings comes with the use of carbon fiber composites. As bicycle companies compete in the arms race to make even lighter, stiffer bikes, safety and durability are pushed to the limit. High modulus (66 Msi and greater) carbon fiber is being used to make stiff yet thin walled tubing. These tubes can be vulnerable to damage from a variety of real world sources. When slightly damaged from a pebble thrown up by a passing car, or an unfortunate event during a group ride or race, a thin walled tube can rapidly degrade to an unsafe condition. Our very popular Calfee Carbon Repair business is evidence of this common failure. Using boron filaments in the tube laminate mitigates this problem by significantly enhancing the tubes structural performance."
"The use of boron fiber has come of age with its use in our high performance bicycle frames. Bicycle weights have dropped from 18 pounds back in the 1980s to 14 pounds or less in 2014. Much of this weight savings comes with the use of carbon fiber composites. As bicycle companies compete in the arms race to make even lighter, stiffer bikes, safety and durability are pushed to the limit. High modulus (66 Msi and greater) carbon fiber is being used to make stiff yet thin walled tubing. These tubes can be vulnerable to damage from a variety of real world sources. When slightly damaged from a pebble thrown up by a passing car, or an unfortunate event during a group ride or race, a thin walled tube can rapidly degrade to an unsafe condition. Our very popular Calfee Carbon Repair business is evidence of this common failure. Using boron filaments in the tube laminate mitigates this problem by significantly enhancing the tubes structural performance."
By the way, for DIM, who obviously doesn't hang around here much or he would have known from past reads on this forum that out of 9 bikes that I have only one of them has anything carbon on it and that's the fork. 8 of my bikes are steel everything, and one is titanium with the carbon fork. Does the CF bother me? kind of does actually, but because of that I did upgrade the fork at purchase from a fork that was designed for a 220 pound rider to one that was designed for a 275 pound rider even though I only weigh 170, but I felt if the fork was way over engineered for the stress that it would encounter the better my odds of it holding up...I guess time will tell. I inspect my fork after every ride too.
#412
Senior Member
basement after closing time at the piggly wiggly, one'd be free to spend
too many hours....when ones's everquest credits run out....reading random
stuff online and forming opinions and becoming a "virtual" expert and then
spewing massive quantities of dubious "advice."
#413
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THANKS for that info. So then why is it with known durability issues for everyday riding the masses are buying into the CF crap? And I'm surprise that if Calfee knows of the problem that they would subject riders to a potential catastrophic event that could seriously hurt or kill someone. Seriously it sounds like they're saying that yes they know a person could have those issues riding one of our CF bikes but that's what the rider wants so we sell them what they want. I wonder from a liability standpoint if some lawyer of an injured Calfee owner read that on their site would have a case for a huge lawsuit since they're admitting they know that CF is problematic? Any lawyers out there care to respond?
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I think he would get a bigger laugh at someone suggesting what he does is considered bicycle touring.
Here ya go: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_Hall_(cyclist)
Here ya go: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_Hall_(cyclist)
#415
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I think most of CF riders are folks doing fitness rides & a light fast bike feels fun. I'm no legal expert but I guess bikes are considered to be somewhat risky to start with & other frame materials can fail also though more rarely. BTW I was previously unaware that CF frames could even be repaired. In Calfee's defense it appears that much of their repair business is other company's frames. If somebody gave me a CF touring frame I'd ride it with fair confidence since most accidents/injuries have nothing to do with frame failure.
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Unless you're willing to admit the carbon "adventure " bicycles are legitimate touring bicycles, well designed for CC and bikepacking. Not everyone is on a 2 yr. round-the-world, carrying 100 lbs of gear. The unsupported race across america folks are going point A to point B, carrying all their own stuff. Easy enough to call that touring. After all they even call it the Tour de France. Lots of different ways to tour.
Last edited by Squeezebox; 06-19-16 at 06:49 AM.
#417
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Unless you're willing to admit the carbon "adventure " bicycles are legitimate touring bicycles, well designed for CC and bikepacking. Not everyone is on a 2 yr. round-the-world, carrying 100 lbs of gear. The unsupported race across america folks are going point A to point B, carrying all their own stuff. Easy enough to call that touring. After all they even call it the Tour de France. Lots of different ways to tour.
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Unless you're willing to admit the carbon "adventure " bicycles are legitimate touring bicycles, well designed for CC and bikepacking. Not everyone is on a 2 yr. round-the-world, carrying 100 lbs of gear. The unsupported race across america folks are going point A to point B, carrying all their own stuff. Easy enough to call that touring. After all they even call it the Tour de France. Lots of different ways to tour.
Squeezey I know you have been following my post so I shouldn't have to explain it over and over and over again for the hard of reading. Go back and reread those two posts I did if you still don't understand, and if you don't understand after rereading then take an Alprazolam and call me in the morning.
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The Salsa Cutthroat is full carbon. About $3000. Is there anyone that is willing to suggest this is not a touring bike? And is there anyone who would question it's reliability?
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Settle down Francis, if you read my post 348 you would have discovered that I said CF isn't used for heavy loaded touring, my bad i didn't explain it AGAIN so someone like you could understand. Then in post 318 I stated that a CF would could be used for credit card touring with a small backpack.
Squeezey I know you have been following my post so I shouldn't have to explain it over and over and over again for the hard of reading. Go back and reread those two posts I did if you still don't understand, and if you don't understand after rereading then take an Alprazolam and call me in the morning.
Squeezey I know you have been following my post so I shouldn't have to explain it over and over and over again for the hard of reading. Go back and reread those two posts I did if you still don't understand, and if you don't understand after rereading then take an Alprazolam and call me in the morning.
Lay off the insults, no aggression was meant. In post 416 you said no one is making a carbon touring bicycle .
Last edited by Squeezebox; 06-19-16 at 06:43 PM.
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Check out the current Tour Divide and Transamerica bikes. Mostly ti or CF. There are some steel bikes but definitely not the weapon of choice and for good reason. Steel offers no advantages for touring bikes, or any other type of bike for that matter, except price. Strength/weight, ride quality....titanium or carbon fiber have the clear advantage. If you simply want a traditional touring bike with lots of braze ons and eyelets for racks and fenders that is inexpensive, and weight is not an issue, then steel is the a great choice.
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Check out the current Tour Divide and Transamerica bikes. Mostly ti or CF. There are some steel bikes but definitely not the weapon of choice and for good reason. Steel offers no advantages for touring bikes, or any other type of bike for that matter, except price. Strength/weight, ride quality....titanium or carbon fiber have the clear advantage. If you simply want a traditional touring bike with lots of braze ons and eyelets for racks and fenders that is inexpensive, and weight is not an issue, then steel is the a great choice.
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Last edited by mtn.cyclist; 06-19-16 at 09:23 PM.
#424
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it's a leisure-time activity.
different people approach this activity in different ways.
some prefer traditional loaded touring.
others prefer lightweight bikepacking.
you'll find this in any activity.
different approaches require different tools.
lht tourbike or carbon-bikepacker?
goldwing or yz250?
hammer or screwdriver?
pumps or flats?
coke or pepsi?
for those that prefer loaded touring, the cutthroat
is simply not suitable. neither in carrying capacity,
nor in gearing selection.
don't feel bad, i'm sure it's a fine bicycle. really.
it's got a cool name, and an even cooler decal on
the seatpost. it just won't handle a loaded tour.
i'm sure those awesome $7000 hammers the
pentagon is famous for are really super dooper
hammers. but are they suitable for doing needlepoint?
#425
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you do realize that bicycle touring is a choice, right?
it's a leisure-time activity.
different people approach this activity in different ways.
some prefer traditional loaded touring.
others prefer lightweight bikepacking.
you'll find this in any activity.
different approaches require different tools.
lht tourbike or carbon-bikepacker?
goldwing or yz250?
hammer or screwdriver?
pumps or flats?
coke or pepsi?
for those that prefer loaded touring, the cutthroat
is simply not suitable. neither in carrying capacity,
nor in gearing selection.
don't feel bad, i'm sure it's a fine bicycle. really.
it's got a cool name, and an even cooler decal on
the seatpost. it just won't handle a loaded tour.
i'm sure those awesome $7000 hammers the
pentagon is famous for are really super dooper
hammers. but are they suitable for doing needlepoint?
it's a leisure-time activity.
different people approach this activity in different ways.
some prefer traditional loaded touring.
others prefer lightweight bikepacking.
you'll find this in any activity.
different approaches require different tools.
lht tourbike or carbon-bikepacker?
goldwing or yz250?
hammer or screwdriver?
pumps or flats?
coke or pepsi?
for those that prefer loaded touring, the cutthroat
is simply not suitable. neither in carrying capacity,
nor in gearing selection.
don't feel bad, i'm sure it's a fine bicycle. really.
it's got a cool name, and an even cooler decal on
the seatpost. it just won't handle a loaded tour.
i'm sure those awesome $7000 hammers the
pentagon is famous for are really super dooper
hammers. but are they suitable for doing needlepoint?