What Are Your "Grizzly / Wildlife" Precautions?
06-30-16, 03:31 PM
#26
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#24 and #25 are good posts....
I've cycled the Alaskan Hwy and on different roads in the Yukon and northern BC.
I carry bear spray but haven't had to use it. I always traveled during June which
probably is the worst time for bear problems because many black bears and grizzlies
are very hungry and have a hard time finding food. I always chose my campsites carefully
and never ate or kept food near where I slept. I did see both kinds of bears, some
quite close, but used the vehicle traffic as a barrier to get by them. I've tested the large
canisters of bear spray. They don't reach out very far, and take a long time to unclip,
pull off the safety pin, and then aim...so unless you have it at the ready, a sudden attack
like what happened to that officer will be over before you have a chance.
I've cycled the Alaskan Hwy and on different roads in the Yukon and northern BC.
I carry bear spray but haven't had to use it. I always traveled during June which
probably is the worst time for bear problems because many black bears and grizzlies
are very hungry and have a hard time finding food. I always chose my campsites carefully
and never ate or kept food near where I slept. I did see both kinds of bears, some
quite close, but used the vehicle traffic as a barrier to get by them. I've tested the large
canisters of bear spray. They don't reach out very far, and take a long time to unclip,
pull off the safety pin, and then aim...so unless you have it at the ready, a sudden attack
like what happened to that officer will be over before you have a chance.
06-30-16, 03:36 PM
#27
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Except he wasn't in an open field. He was riding on a trail in the forest and, according to another story I have read, likely startled the bear. They rarely attack for no reason. When you go into the woods in Glacier, which is right near where this attack happened, it's explained to you that you should always make noise while hiking so you don't surprise a bear, because that's when they can get hostile. The scenario likely didn't play out like a Dirty Harry movie, with the bear standing around while the rider says "Me and Smith & Wesson" as he slowly draws his firearm from his sport coat. He was probably set upon before he had a chance to piss his pants, much less reach for a weapon or even bear spray.
I imagine a bear mauling would be tough to know what to aim at. But at least with an 0.45 you could get its attention. How quickly does the bear go to the head and neck of their "prey"?
06-30-16, 03:49 PM
#28
Senior Member
MTBs on trails can be quite fast and nearly silent. In bear country that can be a very bad combination. Heck that can be a bad combination where there are other trail users. This is even more so where the trails have bad sight lines and/or blind corners. I've often wondered if a constant sound emitting device similar to the old card in the spokes would help warn animals and other trail users of the bicyclist's approach?
Cheers
Cheers
Citing the scene from The Revenant had to be a joke, right? Because movies have never lied to us...
Last edited by stevepusser; 07-02-16 at 07:20 PM.
06-30-16, 04:01 PM
#29
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Except he wasn't in an open field. He was riding on a trail in the forest and, according to another story I have read, likely startled the bear. They rarely attack for no reason. When you go into the woods in Glacier, which is right near where this attack happened, it's explained to you that you should always make noise while hiking so you don't surprise a bear, because that's when they can get hostile. The scenario likely didn't play out like a Dirty Harry movie, with the bear standing around while the rider says "Me and Smith & Wesson" as he slowly draws his firearm from his sport coat. He was probably set upon before he had a chance to piss his pants, much less reach for a weapon or even bear spray.
06-30-16, 04:29 PM
#30
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44mag and larger pistols are very effective against Grizzly Bears if you can get to it and fire accurately. There are many cases where humans have used them successfully. Around camp in a holster works well. Out on a mountain bike it's difficult to be ready. In the recent Glacier MTB killing if the riding partner had a pistol he could have saved his friend.
I never go out into the woods unarmed and I never camp unarmed. Colorado is becoming a mountain lion and bear paradise. The legal weed thing has flooded camp grounds with criminals who will think nothing of harming folks to get some money or goods to fence.
I have a Colorado concealed carry permit that allows me to carry in any National Park/Forest and reciprocity with ~35 states including the ones I like to visit.
I never go out into the woods unarmed and I never camp unarmed. Colorado is becoming a mountain lion and bear paradise. The legal weed thing has flooded camp grounds with criminals who will think nothing of harming folks to get some money or goods to fence.
I have a Colorado concealed carry permit that allows me to carry in any National Park/Forest and reciprocity with ~35 states including the ones I like to visit.
Last edited by Mr IGH; 06-30-16 at 04:35 PM.
06-30-16, 04:37 PM
#31
Full Member
Touring with firearms = never
Touring with bear-spray in bear-country = yes
The likelihood of an encounter with a bear that would require either is minimal. Shooting a gun is a bad idea in a National Park and basically not allowed. If you shot a bear without being mauled first you'd probably end up being ridiculed by the entire world (like the guy who shot the lion). Using bear spray would be fine. Anyhow if you're gonna worry about anything you should worry about the real danger when bicycle touring CARS & TRUCKS!
On my trip to Alaska I used a bear canister (blue thing on top of rear rack in photo) and carried bear spray. I saw lots of bears but never touched the bear spray. The bears & I kept a good distance away from each other. RV's flew by me within inches
Touring with bear-spray in bear-country = yes
The likelihood of an encounter with a bear that would require either is minimal. Shooting a gun is a bad idea in a National Park and basically not allowed. If you shot a bear without being mauled first you'd probably end up being ridiculed by the entire world (like the guy who shot the lion). Using bear spray would be fine. Anyhow if you're gonna worry about anything you should worry about the real danger when bicycle touring CARS & TRUCKS!
On my trip to Alaska I used a bear canister (blue thing on top of rear rack in photo) and carried bear spray. I saw lots of bears but never touched the bear spray. The bears & I kept a good distance away from each other. RV's flew by me within inches
06-30-16, 04:37 PM
#32
I don't know, for the right amount of money, I'd probably take anyone up on that.
Contestant A and myself -- at separate times -- in an open field with a hungry grizzly bear. Contestant A gets the pepper spray, and I get the handgun with 17 rounds in it (.40 cal).
I don't consider myself an expert in many things outside of work. I have probably put more rounds through a handgun than probably 99.999% of the population, however.
Contestant A and myself -- at separate times -- in an open field with a hungry grizzly bear. Contestant A gets the pepper spray, and I get the handgun with 17 rounds in it (.40 cal).
I don't consider myself an expert in many things outside of work. I have probably put more rounds through a handgun than probably 99.999% of the population, however.
Fair game: Both human contestants are blind-folded!
Last edited by BigAura; 06-30-16 at 04:49 PM.
06-30-16, 06:22 PM
#34
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Cheers
06-30-16, 07:07 PM
#35
Senior Member
I don't know, for the right amount of money, I'd probably take anyone up on that.
Contestant A and myself -- at separate times -- in an open field with a hungry grizzly bear. Contestant A gets the pepper spray, and I get the handgun with 17 rounds in it (.40 cal).
I don't consider myself an expert in many things outside of work. I have probably put more rounds through a handgun than probably 99.999% of the population, however.
Contestant A and myself -- at separate times -- in an open field with a hungry grizzly bear. Contestant A gets the pepper spray, and I get the handgun with 17 rounds in it (.40 cal).
I don't consider myself an expert in many things outside of work. I have probably put more rounds through a handgun than probably 99.999% of the population, however.
adrenaline is a wonderful thing.
not so wonderful for precision targeting, though.
i'd take that bet, and double it.
betting with those 17 rounds and
a momma grizzly charging you,
you'd get exactly zero hits.
06-30-16, 07:19 PM
#36
Senior Member
I suspect you would be right... And... In the event he did hit his target witch seems to be the grizzly's head... again, I would suspect the bullet would just "bounce" off. They have a very, very, thick angular skull... JMO
06-30-16, 07:22 PM
#37
Considering how fast a Grizzly can move and how angry the first hit from even a .40 cal pistol bullet would make it there's a good chance that both humans would end up dead. Putthose same two humans on a trail like happened to the ones in the case this thread is about and the odds of shooting the bear dead before it kills you are very slim since the range between humans and bear was so short at the time.
Contestant A may survive by just spinning around and spraying a fog soon as he hears the bear upon him and the bear retreats.
Last edited by BigAura; 07-03-16 at 05:13 AM. Reason: typo
06-30-16, 08:00 PM
#38
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Not touring but I was heading up into the mountains to do a couple weeks ago and this was the sign at the entrance of National Forest.
I didn't go on up into the mountains, rather just turned around and left. I wasn't carrying spray nor a pistol and didn't figured a shot in the face from my water bottle would work.
I didn't go on up into the mountains, rather just turned around and left. I wasn't carrying spray nor a pistol and didn't figured a shot in the face from my water bottle would work.
06-30-16, 08:30 PM
#39
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That bear kept mauling after being shot point blank in The Revenant.
I was at another campground about 3 miles away just this last weekend when another camper was attacked while in his tent at Millard Campground just a few miles north of L.A.
Bear attack closes campground near Altadena | 89.3 KPCC
I was at another campground about 3 miles away just this last weekend when another camper was attacked while in his tent at Millard Campground just a few miles north of L.A.
Bear attack closes campground near Altadena | 89.3 KPCC
06-30-16, 09:29 PM
#40
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I lived in NW Montana for several years. My isolated log cabin was adjacent to the Cabinet Wilderness. Disruptive grizzlies from Yellowstone and Glacier NPs were released into that wilderness during those years. Whenever hiking, backpacking, mountain biking, kayaking or fishing, "situational awareness" about your surroundings was just what you did every moment. Sometimes you could even smell that a grizzly had been close recently. I carried no firearms and bear spray had not been invented or at least not commercially available.
I survived without incident using many of the safety techniques listed by other posters previously. In talking to an elder of the Blackfoot Tribe he suggested urinating around your wild camp site to alert bears that humans are around. I still did that in bear country during the Divide Ride in Canada, Montana, Idaho and Wyoming. I have no evidence that it works or doesn't work. Although my brother uses sponges soaked in ammonia around his campsites and it keeps black bears away in the Sierra Nevada Mountains of California.
On a 30 day kayak circumnavigation of Glacier Bay NP in Alaska, the rules required the use of bear proof barrels for food. They worked well since I cooked and stored the food 100 yards from where I camped. I urinated at my tent corners and each night four to six Alaskan Brown bears made the ground shake as they passed through camp each night but stayed away from my tent. Not quite a scientific study.
Each time a rare bear attack hits the news, firearms as the magical solution appears in these and other forums. I recommend viewing "The Revenant" movie to get a sense of the speed of a grizzly attack and the damage that will be done quickly.
Even trained law enforcement officers only hit their intended target 18% of the time in a life threatening situation. I grew up with guns and was taught well. Later FBI training honed those skills. In law enforcement I saw people die because they thought their target shooting numbers would be the same in a life or death event. Leading with your Ego and thinking you are the top predator in Grizzly country is a formula for painful lessons if you survive.
I survived without incident using many of the safety techniques listed by other posters previously. In talking to an elder of the Blackfoot Tribe he suggested urinating around your wild camp site to alert bears that humans are around. I still did that in bear country during the Divide Ride in Canada, Montana, Idaho and Wyoming. I have no evidence that it works or doesn't work. Although my brother uses sponges soaked in ammonia around his campsites and it keeps black bears away in the Sierra Nevada Mountains of California.
On a 30 day kayak circumnavigation of Glacier Bay NP in Alaska, the rules required the use of bear proof barrels for food. They worked well since I cooked and stored the food 100 yards from where I camped. I urinated at my tent corners and each night four to six Alaskan Brown bears made the ground shake as they passed through camp each night but stayed away from my tent. Not quite a scientific study.
Each time a rare bear attack hits the news, firearms as the magical solution appears in these and other forums. I recommend viewing "The Revenant" movie to get a sense of the speed of a grizzly attack and the damage that will be done quickly.
Even trained law enforcement officers only hit their intended target 18% of the time in a life threatening situation. I grew up with guns and was taught well. Later FBI training honed those skills. In law enforcement I saw people die because they thought their target shooting numbers would be the same in a life or death event. Leading with your Ego and thinking you are the top predator in Grizzly country is a formula for painful lessons if you survive.
07-01-16, 06:23 AM
#41
I lived in NW Montana for several years. My isolated log cabin was adjacent to the Cabinet Wilderness. Disruptive grizzlies from Yellowstone and Glacier NPs were released into that wilderness during those years. Whenever hiking, backpacking, mountain biking, kayaking or fishing, "situational awareness" about your surroundings was just what you did every moment. Sometimes you could even smell that a grizzly had been close recently. I carried no firearms and bear spray had not been invented or at least not commercially available.
I survived without incident using many of the safety techniques listed by other posters previously. In talking to an elder of the Blackfoot Tribe he suggested urinating around your wild camp site to alert bears that humans are around. I still did that in bear country during the Divide Ride in Canada, Montana, Idaho and Wyoming. I have no evidence that it works or doesn't work. Although my brother uses sponges soaked in ammonia around his campsites and it keeps black bears away in the Sierra Nevada Mountains of California.
On a 30 day kayak circumnavigation of Glacier Bay NP in Alaska, the rules required the use of bear proof barrels for food. They worked well since I cooked and stored the food 100 yards from where I camped. I urinated at my tent corners and each night four to six Alaskan Brown bears made the ground shake as they passed through camp each night but stayed away from my tent. Not quite a scientific study.
Each time a rare bear attack hits the news, firearms as the magical solution appears in these and other forums. I recommend viewing "The Revenant" movie to get a sense of the speed of a grizzly attack and the damage that will be done quickly.
Even trained law enforcement officers only hit their intended target 18% of the time in a life threatening situation. I grew up with guns and was taught well. Later FBI training honed those skills. In law enforcement I saw people die because they thought their target shooting numbers would be the same in a life or death event. Leading with your Ego and thinking you are the top predator in Grizzly country is a formula for painful lessons if you survive.
I survived without incident using many of the safety techniques listed by other posters previously. In talking to an elder of the Blackfoot Tribe he suggested urinating around your wild camp site to alert bears that humans are around. I still did that in bear country during the Divide Ride in Canada, Montana, Idaho and Wyoming. I have no evidence that it works or doesn't work. Although my brother uses sponges soaked in ammonia around his campsites and it keeps black bears away in the Sierra Nevada Mountains of California.
On a 30 day kayak circumnavigation of Glacier Bay NP in Alaska, the rules required the use of bear proof barrels for food. They worked well since I cooked and stored the food 100 yards from where I camped. I urinated at my tent corners and each night four to six Alaskan Brown bears made the ground shake as they passed through camp each night but stayed away from my tent. Not quite a scientific study.
Each time a rare bear attack hits the news, firearms as the magical solution appears in these and other forums. I recommend viewing "The Revenant" movie to get a sense of the speed of a grizzly attack and the damage that will be done quickly.
Even trained law enforcement officers only hit their intended target 18% of the time in a life threatening situation. I grew up with guns and was taught well. Later FBI training honed those skills. In law enforcement I saw people die because they thought their target shooting numbers would be the same in a life or death event. Leading with your Ego and thinking you are the top predator in Grizzly country is a formula for painful lessons if you survive.
As a 15yo backpacker, hiking in Upstate NY (black bear country), I was told by an old-timer about urinating around your tent. Since it seems to work I still do it to this day (I'm 63). If nothing else, believing in it is comforting.
Last edited by BigAura; 07-01-16 at 06:36 AM.
07-01-16, 10:34 AM
#42
-
"there was seemingly nothing that former park ranger and longtime U.S. Forest Service law enforcement officer Brad Treat could do when he surprised the bear while riding his mountain bike along a trail in that forest minutes from his home"
https://www.wral.com/man-killed-by-be...ence/15820477/
https://www.wral.com/man-killed-by-be...ence/15820477/
07-01-16, 01:46 PM
#44
Member
Here's your real culprit, "the man was in his tent, looking at his iPad...". OK, now tongue-in-cheek aside, I don't agree with killing the bear. It sounds like the guy likely had food in his tent, an unintended injury was caused by the bear, and the bear ran off as soon as it realized the situation.
Bear that attacked camper in Angeles National Forest has been euthanized | 89.3 KPCC
"[California Department of Fish and Wildlife spokesman Andrew] Hughan said it was still unclear exactly what drew the bear to the tent. He said it was likely that the bear smelled something, but there was no evidence to indicate the man had food in his tent."
07-02-16, 07:25 PM
#46
Senior Member
The writer doesn't agree.
07-02-16, 07:31 PM
#47
Senior Member
Your speculation that "the guy likely had food in this tent" appears to be wrong. Here's a followup article:
Bear that attacked camper in Angeles National Forest has been euthanized | 89.3 KPCC
"[California Department of Fish and Wildlife spokesman Andrew] Hughan said it was still unclear exactly what drew the bear to the tent. He said it was likely that the bear smelled something, but there was no evidence to indicate the man had food in his tent."
Bear that attacked camper in Angeles National Forest has been euthanized | 89.3 KPCC
"[California Department of Fish and Wildlife spokesman Andrew] Hughan said it was still unclear exactly what drew the bear to the tent. He said it was likely that the bear smelled something, but there was no evidence to indicate the man had food in his tent."
07-02-16, 09:00 PM
#48
Member
Sorry, but the California Department of Fish and Wildlife has more credibility than the baseless speculation posted by AdvXtrm, or your baseless speculation that food was removed. The California Department of Fish and Wildlife had access to the campsite and the victim. Nobody on this forum had access to anything whatsoever.
07-02-16, 10:31 PM
#50
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Bear country? Bear spray in a quick draw holster on the handlebars. Extra holster on the belt for when walking. Bear bell on my shoe laces, so it jingles all the time when riding or walking. Ursack and odour proof bags for food. Usual 200ft separation between food, cooking, tent. No camping on shores or beaches where bears tend to wander along looking for things that wash up. Paranoia at all times.